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Navigate on autopilot in Europe is dangerous.

Navigate on autopilot in Europe is dangerous.

Just received 2019.16.2 and for the first time it includes navigate on autopilot in Europe.

Thanks to a new European law this update now limits the turn indicator to 5 seconds. This makes lane changing nothing short of dangerous.

Now when changing lanes with navigate on autopilot or just general autopilot if the lane change is not completed within five seconds the car returns back to the previous lane. If you are doing a moderate speed i.e. 50 miles an hour plus the return to the previous lane is very sudden. This sudden movement not only causes distress to the driver and passengers in the vehicle but if anybody was close behind you overtaking and you suddenly return to the lane your left it will no doubt cause a collision no matter how alert you are. If the police were watching you would definitely be pulled over.

Those of you in America without this five second rule will not experience this behaviour.

I sincerely hope changes come soon because for now it’s not really usable, even in its present beta format.

jlhm | 31 mai 2019

Why would there be a law that limit the use of the turn signal to just 5 seconds?
What is the consequence if the turn signal is on more than 5 seconds?

TeslaTap.com | 31 mai 2019

Sounds like the 5 second rule encourages everyone to just stop using the blinker or flash it for 200 ms such that no one actually sees it. The again, it wouldn't surprise me that a different EU law requires it be on for 4.8 seconds. Drivers required to have a stopwatch to time the blinker while they ignore crashing into cars. Makes you understand why Britain wants out of the EU.

jlhm | 31 mai 2019

Sounds like any 5 seconds rule would be for the minimum time to have the blinker on instead of maximum time.

rjairam | 31 mai 2019

The EU lane change rule is that any lane change must start within 5 seconds of initiating a turn signal. Hey, it's the EU, home of things like GDPR... regulations enacted that are far reaching yet the bureaucrats still enacted them anyway. Not really surprising,

rjairam | 31 mai 2019

I wouldn't be surprised if the German auto industry lobbied for this to kill Tesla...

Bighorn | 31 mai 2019

Too bad Teslas are hardwired.
#bankwupt

TeslaTap.com | 31 mai 2019

Looking on the plus side, perhaps the rule is designed for drivers oblivious to the blinker and leave it on for 100 miles of travel. Of course those drivers will be oblivious to rules too, so not sure it actually fixes anything.

PagemakersS75P3 | 31 mai 2019

The max time it can be on is 5 seconds. Only came in with .16 update.

Indicate, flash flash flash. Car starts to change lane. 50% into the lane change it massively jerks back to the original lane for NO APPARENT REASON.

It’s beyond dangerous.

You are on tender hooks every time the car changes lane.

Honestly I’m not exaggerating.

https://youtu.be/sMvdI8nSAJE

Not me by the way!!

https://electrek.co/2019/05/17/tesla-nerfs-autopilot-europe-regulations/

Bighorn | 31 mai 2019

@Pagemaker
The NO APPARENT REASON is usually a partial press of the stalk.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook

PBEndo | 31 mai 2019

I thought 5 second rule was restricted to eating food that fell on the ground

redacted | 31 mai 2019

@Pagemaker: tenterhooks, please.

etigro | 1 juin 2019

Fully agree with @PagemakerS75. Lane change in autopilot or NoA is useable now in France as well. It keeps aborting and sends you back in the initial lane. Doesn’t make any sense.

PagemakersS75P3 | 1 juin 2019

Just installed 16.3.2 and still no dual carriageways in the UK. Still displays and single lane with no auto-lane change.

etigro | 1 juin 2019

On 16.3.2 as well but the lines look fine. NoA suggests lane changes but it always abort.
Let’s wait for 16.3.3...

PagemakersS75P3 | 1 juin 2019

@etigro does yours show A roads and dual carriageways as 2 lanes. Mine doesn’t and consequently I can’t change lanes. I’m UK. I see you’re France.

etigro | 1 juin 2019

@PagemakersS75 Yes, I see the right number of lanes when on a divided highway. NoA seems to work ok and suggests lane change but it never happens. I usually get a "Lane change impossible/unavailable" or an aborted attempt. Same on regular autopilot. This must have to do with the EU limitation.

PagemakersS75P3 | 4 juin 2019

Another NOA trip today and once again it was truly terrible. Hesitant lane changing and constant jerking back into the lane because of this new ludicrous 5 second European rule.

Still, dual carriageways are no longer depicted so no auto-lane change on 2,3 lane carriageways. OK on Motorways.

I wrote to Tesla Europe. They replied....

Good day,

Thank you for your email.

We are aware of this issue and our technicians are looking into this, unfortunately at the moment we don't have a solution.

We have noted your feedback about the turn indicator and will look into this.

Unfortunately we won't be able to give you any updates about this.

Thank you for helping accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.

Kind Regards,
Tesla Customer Support EMEA

avesraggiana | 4 juin 2019

Navigation On Autopilot is also dangerous in Southern California.

Three consistent problems with the latest release.

1. Car brakes or slows down for NO REASON. Not near an overpass, not entering a sharp freeway bend, nothing, no reason.

2. Car pulls up alongside another car in the right lane, and then abruptly slows down to fall behind and THEN merge, startling and annoying the driver immediately behind me.

3. Car doesn't detect other cars merging from an on-ramp to the right, then when it does, cuts them off, slows down, beeps and bleats at me and visually shouts at me to TAKE OVER IMMEDIATELY. The driver behind me is then left feeling startled, annoyed and very, very peeved.

All three scenarios above happened at least twice on a 300 mile drive. Bug Report submitted. In all instances, I had to overpower or kick off the autopilot.

Anyone who declares that Navigation on Autopilot, and subsequently FSD, is safer than human drivers will have a very difficult time convincing me of that. It's these edge cases, like negotiating traffic merging onto the freeway, that will take the longest to get mostly right.

avesraggiana | 4 juin 2019

I should say, three consistent problems, EVEN with the latest release.

Mike83 | 4 juin 2019

You guys must be driving a Kia. Ours works very well. Last 2000 mile trip we used Nav on AP 97% of the time and it even prevented a fender bender.
Try reading the manual .

PagemakersS75P3 | 4 juin 2019

@avesraggiana I have the same issues and 1 & 3.

@Mike83 great input mate.

Bighorn | 4 juin 2019

Was in SoCal last week. NoAP is not great in traffic so I turned it off. It provides very little benefit at this point aside from the party trick aspect. AP is awesome when you’re master of your domain on the lane changes. Hardly any more effort when factoring in the wheel confirmation you have to finesse to get the auto lane change to happen.

PagemakersS75P3 | 4 juin 2019

Sadly there is no difference here in the UK since the .16 update. NoAP or general AP it’s the same. The lane change must be initiated within 5 seconds of indicating. If it’s only just started the change lane on say second 4, the car will jerk you back into the original lane with some considerable force.

In my 3 years of ownership it’s the worst AP experience I’ve had and I used to use it all the time.

Bighorn | 4 juin 2019

Time for #Texit

Alan75DUK | 4 juin 2019

It seems to me that NoA clearly needs a lot more work.

@avesraggiana I have experienced all three of the items you have reported. Item 3 I found particularly dangerous - to avoid a car joining my lane, the car went to change lane into the path of a car about to overtake me. A serious high speed crash was only avoided by me turning the steering wheel, and slamming on the brakes! I guess that is why we are nagged to pay attention at *all* times.

The car seems to refuse to overtake a slower vehicle on the wrong side. Overtaking on the wrong side is very frowned upon here in the UK, so I guess that is good, but the car just seems to hold position behind the slower car - it does not prompt to change lane twice and overtake the slower car in the correct manner.

I also have been getting mysterious sudden slowing down (sometimes quite violently) for no apparent reason - even on an empty road in perfect driving conditions. This started a couple of updates ago. I hope it gets fixed soon.

A feature I have found is that NoA does not operate in tunnels (at least not in the Hatfield Tunnel on the A1(M) - UK drivers please note). Just before entering the tunnel the system gives a warning then reverts to conventional auto-pilot. On emerging from the tunnel NoA automatically re-engages. Why this should be I do not understand - the Hatfield Tunnel is well lit, has very clear lane markings, and has three lanes plus hard shoulder. Maybe it is something to do with light levels. I have not tried NoA at night. Any suggestions out there?

The removal of auto lane change from conventional auto-pilot seems to be a backward step and I hope that it is re-instated at the next update.

The NoA feature of auto departure at the required exit is very nice - when it works! Several times I have had to intervene when the car has ignored the exit. I am wondering if this is linked to the car not always recognising all of the available lanes. It will often only show the lane the car is in, even when other cars are overtaking or being overtaken. When the exit is detected, NoA signals a turn at the moment the lane change is started. This is far too late. The signal to take the exit slip should be given some hundred metres or more before taking the exit slip so that following drivers receive adequate warning.

I hate the way the auto lane change feature will cancel in mid-manoeuvre, confusing me and other drivers as to what is going on. It seems to happen if a car is detected in the overtaking lane after the lane change manoeuvre has been initiated - even if there is no risk of collision and no collision warning has been given.

Finally, the limitation of auto-steer angle of turn on twisty roads seems utterly pointless to me, and potentially dangerous if the driver cannot rescue the situation in time. I think someone said that this is to comply with a regulation recently introduced. If that is the case, then some bureaucrat somewhere needs to come up with some good answers!

This must all seem very negative to read, but despite my comments a like the general direction (sorry about the pun) that this is going. As I said at the outset - this needs a lot more work from Tesla. In the meanwhile, it is clear to me that the exaltations to hang on to the steering wheel and pay constant attention to what is going on are very relevant.

Alan75DUK | 4 juin 2019

It seems to me that NoA clearly needs a lot more work.

@avesraggiana I have experienced all three of the items you have reported. Item 3 I found particularly dangerous - to avoid a car joining my lane, the car went to change lane into the path of a car about to overtake me. A serious high speed crash was only avoided by me turning the steering wheel, and slamming on the brakes! I guess that is why we are nagged to pay attention at *all* times.

The car seems to refuse to overtake a slower vehicle on the wrong side. Overtaking on the wrong side is very frowned upon here in the UK, so I guess that is good, but the car just seems to hold position behind the slower car - it does not prompt to change lane twice and overtake the slower car in the correct manner.

I also have been getting mysterious sudden slowing down (sometimes quite violently) for no apparent reason - even on an empty road in perfect driving conditions. This started a couple of updates ago. I hope it gets fixed soon.

A feature I have found is that NoA does not operate in tunnels (at least not in the Hatfield Tunnel on the A1(M) - UK drivers please note). Just before entering the tunnel the system gives a warning then reverts to conventional auto-pilot. On emerging from the tunnel NoA automatically re-engages. Why this should be I do not understand - the Hatfield Tunnel is well lit, has very clear lane markings, and has three lanes plus hard shoulder. Maybe it is something to do with light levels. I have not tried NoA at night. Any suggestions out there?

The removal of auto lane change from conventional auto-pilot seems to be a backward step and I hope that it is re-instated at the next update.

The NoA feature of auto departure at the required exit is very nice - when it works! Several times I have had to intervene when the car has ignored the exit. I am wondering if this is linked to the car not always recognising all of the available lanes. It will often only show the lane the car is in, even when other cars are overtaking or being overtaken. When the exit is detected, NoA signals a turn at the moment the lane change is started. This is far too late. The signal to take the exit slip should be given some hundred metres or more before taking the exit slip so that following drivers receive adequate warning.

I hate the way the auto lane change feature will cancel in mid-manoeuvre, confusing me and other drivers as to what is going on. It seems to happen if a car is detected in the overtaking lane after the lane change manoeuvre has been initiated - even if there is no risk of collision and no collision warning has been given.

Finally, the limitation of auto-steer angle of turn on twisty roads seems utterly pointless to me, and potentially dangerous if the driver cannot rescue the situation in time. I think someone said that this is to comply with a regulation recently introduced. If that is the case, then some bureaucrat somewhere needs to come up with some good answers!

This must all seem very negative to read, but despite my comments a like the general direction (sorry about the pun) that this is going. As I said at the outset - this needs a lot more work from Tesla. In the meanwhile, it is clear to me that the exaltations to hang on to the steering wheel and pay constant attention to what is going on are very relevant.

pgkevet | 5 juin 2019

Also uk 2018 MS on...16.3
Only had a few chances to use NOA and frankly at the moment it's dangerous and stressful here and the effect on other drivers could cause accidents. Another major bugbear is that it won't accept an advisory overtake so have to cancel and re-initialise. At one point (seeing if it would sort itself) it left me behind a 60mph car for nearly a mile on a 70mph motorway with the fast lane totally empty the whole time. On another ocassion it allowed NOA to continue when the motorway had changed to dual carriageway with an off-ramp for the dual carrageway another 1/4 mile ahead - car attempted to make the turn into a lay-by, saw end of lay-by and made violent turn back to carriageway (road was empty so I'd let things happen).
The system needs to be reading the road a lot further ahead than it does.

TeslaTap.com | 5 juin 2019

@Alan - GPS doesn't work in tunnels and may explain why NoA is not allowed there.

Alan75DUK | 5 juin 2019

@TT - Of course. I had forgotten that!

@pgkevet - I agree with your last comment. I have had this impression almost since I first had the car (Dec. '17). When I was learning to drive (many years ago) I was taught to look further ahead the faster I drove. The system seems to learn about this as well

Alan75DUK | 5 juin 2019

That should read: 'The system needs to learn about this as well'