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Model S overnight reduced battery capacity

Model S overnight reduced battery capacity

After contacting Tesla to schedule a service appointment due to a 10% - 15% battery capacity drop, I was told that as a result of a remote battery test, that nothing was wrong with my batteries. That in fact due to a software download, a number of model S cars were impacted in a similar fashion and that Tesla was working on a fix. Unfortunately, no one at Tesla can tell me when my car will be returned to the former state which allows me to charge to the same level before this took place.

The problem is that my daily charge (rated) on my "85" fell from about 220 to about 190 and that the time it takes to charge to the 190 is greatly impacted because the battery thinks it is getting fully charged much sooner. This greatly impacts my use of my car and feel that this is unacceptable.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experienced this and it would be great to know what your plan is on how to deal with this.

Thank you,

Rob

GHammer | 24 juillet 2019

Long discussion going on about this over at TMC. Some have requested arbitration as per the warranty language. Most are just waiting it out to see if Tesla releases anything official or walks back the reduction. This was presumably done in response to the battery fires in Asia.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/sudden-loss-of-range-with-2019-1...

robwarnersc | 24 juillet 2019

Thank you for your response. Are you aware of how many people are actually impacted by this? Do you have any idea what relief arbitration would provide? Given the significance of this issue, are you aware of any consideration for a class action?

GHammer | 24 juillet 2019

All the 85/70 packs seem to be impacted to some degree but some, like mine, are relatively minor 1-2%. Some have reported up to a 30% reduction. No arbitration have been completed yet and some are even having trouble getting them accepted. The requested relief is either return the range or replace the battery under warranty. Of course class action is always mentioned but nothing has been put forward that I can tell. Some people have contacted media others have filed complaints with state DOJ's.

GHammer | 24 juillet 2019

Here is Tesla's response to one arbitration complaint, not very encouraging.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/3862041/

AERODYNE | 24 juillet 2019

My MS 85D has no perceptable range impact. However, SC rates are south of 74 Kw.

GHammer | 24 juillet 2019

I too have reduced SC rates after 2019.20, very annoying.

johncrab | 24 juillet 2019

Software "updates" this month have been very buggy. In my case, 2019.24.1 caused a pump to run 24/7, the car never to go to sleep and I lost 1 mile of range per hour due to this new vampire drain. This "battery test" is far nastier since it effectively kills a big chunk of a battery which was working fine prior to the update. For me, 2019.24.2 fixed my vampire problem but just today I got a notice that another update is available. I'm not installing it as I have lost all trust in Tesla. My offing car works again and I want to drive it a while before they mess it up for me. Perhaps if enough of us refuse to let the updates install, they might get the message to get these things right before shoving them off on us.

NKYTA | 24 juillet 2019

I didn’t notice reduced rates with my 2012 P85 on my last road trip, but then I’m always amazed at how my wife’s 3 charges, and the range!!

NKYTA | 24 juillet 2019

The road trip was a mere 13k miles. Software as up to date as it gets for a 2012.

robwarnersc | 24 juillet 2019

Can someone point me to a source where I can find out how to file for arbitration? I have a 2012 85 and could not find anything in the manual that came with the car. I believe that all who are impacted should initiate this process in order to get Tesla to do something to correct this situation. Power in numbers.
Thank you.

NKYTA | 24 juillet 2019

@rob, specifics please? Did you see what I just posted regarding my Classic?

robwarnersc | 25 juillet 2019

I did see your post...thank you. I'm trying to figure out how to deal with Tesla on this as my mileage got hit by as much as 15% overnight. It appears that arbitration is the "only" way to deal initially with Tesla followed by some sort of law suit or class action which I believe is warranted since we paid for range that was taken away from us. I'm wondering if there is a way to compile a list of names of people seriously impacted so that we can take the best steps forward with this. For now, I can only see a CA website for moving forward with arbitration, however, it seems like Tesla is going to really try to squirrel their way out of this.

AaronB | 25 juillet 2019

Hi Rob,

I am in the same boat at you. I have a 2012 P85 and it went from a 90% charge of 219 to 198. I haven't tried a range charge yet, but don't expect it to be better. I have documentation on this loss being 100% corrlated with the software update (Teslalog). My 90% has been right around 219 for several years until this software update.

Something needs to happen, as this is completely unacceptable.

Aaron

valcobb213 | 25 juillet 2019

Hi,

This is crazy. We've noticed the reduction in the fully charged range when planning a road trip. The last trip charged to 239 on our 2016 S75, now we only get 220 now. We've been trying to get some answers to no avail. We are current with the updates and now concerned that it could as a results of the recent software updates.

AaronB | 25 juillet 2019

@vakcobb213 - I know. This last 20 miles was my cushion for many of my drives.

All I could get when I called was to schedule a service appt, which I did - unfortunately not until Aug 6.

No one at Tesla is saying anything. The thread over on TMC is over 100 pages so far.

robwarnersc | 26 juillet 2019

@aaronB - I had originally set up a service apptmt and TSLA called and cancelled mine because they know that there is nothing they can do in the service center to fix this problem. It is a software issue, not something a service tech can fix.
I agree with the last few comments. The 10% to 15% drop effects us all significantly. Tesla should understand this as they were originally selling 40, 60 and 85 models where each step up provided about that same increase and they were charging a lot for this added mileage.
If Tesla does not restore our cars to the same levels of battery capacity as before the software update which addressed fire issues, I believe we should initiate some sort of class action.

txakoli | 26 juillet 2019

2014 Model S85, No AP. V2019.24.1

My RM at 100% charge is still at 252. It's been at 252 since early this year.

I supercharged a couple of times this week. The approximate taper formula (for non-urban SC) appears to have changed a bit.

Before: Charge rate (kW) = 120 - SOC (%)
Now: Charge rate (kW) = 110 - SOC (%)

Bighorn | 26 juillet 2019

@txakoli
Figure is 190 for our Model 3, up from 165 before a FW update.

robwarnersc | 26 juillet 2019

For the life of me, I don't understand why some people with S85's are seeing no change at all and others, like myself, are seeing a huge change. Makes no sense at all to me.

AZGLFR | 26 juillet 2019

2015 S 85D , 75k miles . Have not seen any change in rated miles during the year I’ve owned it . Got many updates from 2018 50.6 to 2019 24.4 currently .

GHammer | 26 juillet 2019

"For the life of me, I don't understand why some people with S85's are seeing no change at all and others, like myself, are seeing a huge change. Makes no sense at all to me."

Presumably the new software has the Battery Management System (BMS) detecting some marginal condition in some batteries and putting a cap on those batteries.

txakoli | 26 juillet 2019

Additional relevant data for my vehicle:
Miles: 54K
Approx. 60% of my charging comes from Level 2 (home and destination). The remainder from Supercharging. While home the SOC is usually kept between 20 and 60%.

Not sure if this helps explain why my battery is not seeing the large RM change at 100% whilst others have seen large changes.

jordanrichard | 26 juillet 2019

Holy crap people. Your acting as if this is a permanent thing. If an OTA update gaffed your range up, an OTA will fix it.

Bighorn | 26 juillet 2019

2013 P85+. Went and checked tonight. All is normal. Actually, slightly better than last month.

robwarnersc | 27 juillet 2019

@jordanrichard - time will tell. Having owned my S for almost 7 years now and a "3" for almost 2 years, I don't have quite the confidence in Tesla. Their communication to customers always was and continues to be awful. It sure would be nice to get an OTA update which communicates to customers the impact (as in battery capacity loss) rather than let customers find out on their own, reach out for service individually and have to deal with unknowns as we have. In this case, Tesla has made no official announcement that I am aware of that speaks to a fix of what I consider to be a serious flaw.

Outhebox | 27 juillet 2019

@ jordanrichard acting as if its a permanent thing.

My vehicle was impacted with a reduced capacity of 13kWh, over two months ago - reached out to Tesla for remediation, to be told battery is operating as expected given millage and age,
and that the update has performed a re-calibration to reflect a true state of capacity.

After having paid for the Ludicrous upgrade, I now find myself with reduced performance and reduced range of over 30 miles , charges times have also increased - to obtain previous 80% capacity I now have to charge to 90% adding an additional 25 minutes to charging times.
I trust in Tesla, but two months on with several updates, still awaiting a fix ....hope your right and it’s not a permanent thing.
Reading through threads on other forums, the reasoning as to why Tesla have targeted specific 85kWh battery owners still remains unknown .

Bighorn | 27 juillet 2019

Flagged out the box for spamming

rydo_25 | 27 juillet 2019

I'm just getting around to registering but my 2012 85 was also affected. Used to get up to 248 on a full now it's 220. I was told by Tesla to let me.battery go down to ~10% and charge full and do that a few times and it will go back to normal but nothing.

jordanrichard | 27 juillet 2019

There is no logic to the theory that Tesla is doing this on purpose to goat people into upgrading their cars. Why would they do something that would actually hurt sales? By that I mean if people believed that Tesla purposely cripples their cars, no one would buy one. Also is flies in the face of Tesla not believing in pre-planned obsolescence.
My car just finished charging to 80% and it is at 202 miles. My car is a S85, I took delivery in Mar 2014 and now has 162,000 miles. That equates to a 5% loss in range which equates to a loss of 1.25 mpg in the average car on the road today. Those are the numbers that helps sell Tesla’s, not “Tesla permanently reduces your car’s range to goat you into buying a new one”. Everything Tesla does is to break away from what the traditional car makers and dealers do.

l_zabytko | 27 juillet 2019

I own a 2019 Model S 75D and after a software update mid July my 80% charge level mileage dropped from 220-222 to 197-203 on the dashboard display. So, I too share the same concern that somehow after the update the car is calculating the range based on the KWh driving patterns using a different formula. The car has only 1100 miles on it. I should not yet be having battery issues. And like others’ experiences, it literally happened after one overnight charge. It was not a steady decline but a 25 mile aggregate drop.

rydo_25 | 27 juillet 2019

Does anyone know if a factory reset changes the displayed available miles?

dougk71 | 28 juillet 2019

MS100D 2018 HW2.5 2019. 24.4
It used to lose 3 miles every 24 hours when parked in my garage. It now loses 10 miles every 24 hours.
I strongly suspect this is a hurried software fix after a car was seen to have a portion of the traction battery catch fire in China.
Sadly this creates anxiety not unlike range anxiety.in that if you have to go on a long cruise and park your Tesla it may not start on your return.
It used to go 60 days parked now it is 20 days or less.

Outhebox | 28 juillet 2019

@jordanrichard

Would agree that there is no deliberate malpractice at hand, maybe a more transparent approach from Tesla as to how they communicate with owners would help to dispel these types of conspiracy theories .

As a data point - my P85DL - 4 years old – mileage 56000 miles - charges to 100% giving 204 miles down from a previous 239

Qwiksilver | 28 juillet 2019

2013 85S 74,000 miles
I had the same problem as joncrab. A vampire drain of 1 mile/hour. Brought the car in for service for three other problems, mentioned the new vampire drain, they altogether skirted addressing the issue.
I have had so many problems with my models S, how ever it's the best handling car I have ever driven. But my 2010 Prius with 112,00 miles has NEVER had a problem, and it's just as fuel efficient as the day I got it.
Seriously thinking about abandoning Tesla (never though I would hear myself saying that), and going back to a Prius.

Qwiksilver | 28 juillet 2019

So many posts on this forum and TMC about this range loss to be ignored. I hope Tesla is listening, comes clean, and addresses this with a fix. A reputation is harder to repair than software issue.

Bighorn | 28 juillet 2019

Prius? Been there, done that. Holy hell.

tes-s | 28 juillet 2019

My 2013 S85 is on 2018.50.6 and will remain there perhaps forever.

Firmware update fails, and service thinks it is a bad memory card or maybe the MCU. I consider it a "feature" at this point and have no plans to have it "fixed". Certainly not going to pay for a fix...

dougk71 | 28 juillet 2019

This threefold increase in mileage range loss overnight ( 3 miles to 10 miles) could be to do with
1) sentry mode.
I have sentry mode set to off and only activate it if parked away from the garage.
2) WiFi
I have WiFi in the garage and software updates did upgrade the browser
3) New Easter eggs were added
I never use them
4) Cabin temperature
I have this on but the garage overnight never reaches the 100 deg temp it is set at
5) Most likely
The BMS software has been modified at the expense of overnight drain

I have a mobile service appointment next week I'll mention the issue.
We have a Niro plugin hybrid that is all EV for 30 miles but it has a tank of gas that doesn't lose range at 10 miles every 24 hours like the Tesla. We have our Niro for cruise parking if the Tesla continues to lose range at the current rate.
Any thoughts on turning the Tesla off via the screen to save range when parked away from a charger.?

We all need a statement from Tesla about many days can you leave a Tesla without charging before your Tesla dies.
They must know. how long .... cars are shipped to china...left on lots awaiting delivery are they all dead on arrival and need reviving?

robwarnersc | 29 juillet 2019

As the originator of this thread and reading everyone's comments up to this point, I would like to offer up the following:
1- I do not believe this represents a conspiracy by Tesla to get you to buy new cars. They have to much to lose.
2- I really love my 2012 "S" and my wife loves her "3". I do NOT like Tesla the company for many reasons. The biggest problem I have from day 1 is lack of communication. With the ability to push out updates, there is absolutely no reason not to communicate with its customers when what gets pushed out impacts something as major as battery mileage. If these changes were made due to safety concerns, why not provide more detail as opposed to having people find out on their own.
3- I purchased my car based on getting 300 mile range and paid for the extra battery capacity. BTW I understand the different between rated and ideal. When something is done by Tesla (not normal battery wear) that reduces my battery capacity as much as it did, there should be some way to compensate people accordingly. If not, what happens if further updates continue to reduce range?
4- With the reduced range resulting from the ota update, shouldn't this somehow be impacted by the rules of lemon laws? In other words, shouldn't Tesla have a few chances to restore my battery capacity back to the levels before this update or have to provide new batteries or ???
Curious to hear other people's opinions.

Tropopause | 29 juillet 2019

Playing along with OP's theory that Tesla released OTA update to prevent battery fire and should give owners the option of utilizing or rejecting this update. You do realize that many idiots would choose to accept the low risk of fire instead of having any adverse affect on range? Then the news, governments, etc would be all over Tesla for allowing idiots to have any choice in the matter when it comes to safety.

I agree with Jordan, see what resolution comes about. Maybe Tesla is collecting data in the mean time to formulate a plan.

JoeBadge | 31 juillet 2019

My 2013 MS P85 shut down while driving in the middle of the road. SC says it's replacing the 'BMB' board. Happened 7/25 - same time as everyone else. No car at present. Have no idea if SC will be charging me.

james_petree | 2 août 2019

Not sure if it’s much help to anyone, but since I have a similar recent experience with range loss, figured I’d go ahead and share.

In the last week or two, my 2012 Model S P85 went from a calculated full charge range of 239 to 199, a loss of 40 miles of range for no explainable reason. I know I had a software update in July, but precise timing of the update relative to the range loss is uncertain. This lasted until a few days ago when the car again returned to a calculated full charge of 238/239 again. As far as I know, no software update was completed causing this change.

Also, no change in charging or driving behavior was made. During the week, the car’s state of charge is usually maintained in a range of ~35-50% and on the weekends when I do more driving it is often in the ~10-70/80% range.

I never did contact Tesla to inquire about this loss, so don’t have much to go on other than my theory that a recent software update must have messed with range calculation and battery charge levels, but has apparently now resolved itself and put things back to normal.

Hope others having sudden range loss have the same experience as me!

JoeBadge | 3 août 2019

SC is replacing my entire battery pack at no charge. Not sure if the software update crashed the battery, but hoping it will receive the shipment soon from Freemont.

sentabo | 3 août 2019

"Seriously thinking about abandoning Tesla (never though I would hear myself saying that), and going back to a Prius."

My WiFi at home isn't performing like it did when I first set it up. I find myself having to reboot on occasion. I'm seriously thinking of abandoning my WiFi and going back to dial-up.

grins.va | 3 août 2019

Funny. :-)

NKYTA | 3 août 2019

lol

Bighorn | 3 août 2019

It’s comforting to hear the modem screeching to let you know you’re getting something for your money

Mathew98 | 3 août 2019

Did you know 56k bps modem was the sh!t back in the day? Let's see if I could dig it out of the museum for ya...

dougk71 | 3 août 2019

Looks like a 10 mile per night loss of range when parked in a garage is a free feature. Turning off cabin over temperature will help according to the Tesla ranger if left in covered parking at an airport or cruise terminal.
It is unfortunate that you can't reverse a software upgrade like you can if you back up a PC.
I was told they will eventually fix the yellow screen border but that it will likely require leaving the car overnight at a SC. At least my skin didn't turn yellow when driving so I can thank the Tesla team for that.
Overall the car is a joy to have.

flynn | 3 août 2019

Battery charge level restricted

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