Tesla 3 enthusiasts will love the Mach-E reveal. I'm watching it now, and it's the best entertainment that I can remember in recent times.
"when folks take these outrageous positions on everything Tesla :("
Or when they take outrageous positions on everything non-Tesla
MACH-E includes heated steering wheel, I could use one yesterday. But unfortunately, they probably did not equip it with Heap Pump, that would be big mistake. FSD option is also available with future update via download when ready and Ford is one of the leaders in FSD, unlike very vocal Tesla, dragging way behind every one in this area.
Who needs a heat pump or heated steering wheel when you can preheat the cabin, anywhere including an enclosed garage? And without having to wait for an engine to warm up.
I don’t understand the allure of these events. These days it’s practically impossible to avoid being advertised to; I’ve no interest in actively participating. I get it for industry insiders and press people. I’ll just wait until I can read a concise report.
Mass viewership happens for Apple, Samsung, tesla, and probably others, but I don’t get it.
"Who needs a heat pump or heated steering wheel when you can preheat the cabin, anywhere including an enclosed garage? And without having to wait for an engine to warm up."@spuzz123
All EVs can do the preheat. E-Mustang has the liquid cooled heated battery. E-Mustang and Kona EV have heated wheel, e-Tron and Tesla's do not.
it's the long list of features above that are upgrades Tesla needs to make.
@WhiteWi I'm here. What's up?
I did not know about Mach E until I read about it here. My husband liked it, so I spared $500 for a deposit.
@le Fish “ E-Mustang and Kona EV have heated wheel, e-Tron and Tesla's do not.”
Wrong. And if you followed your own mantra of range being the single most important metric for an EV, you could have greater range and a heated steering wheel. Instead you opted for less range and no heated steering wheel.
"And if you followed your own mantra of range being the single most important metric for an EV, you could have greater range and a heated steering wheel. "
Best to quote things you misunderstand and they can be explained to you. Range is the single most important factor in EV purchase, that's been poll after poll after poll.
270 range vs. 310 range is an advantage for Tesla but not big enough to overcome the poor AP safeties and the design issues on controls and Tesla's black box attitude to customers.
i suspect that Ford is doing what Audi did and understating the battery capacity, well Tesla did it too on LR AWD now rated 322. Net effect, as with Audi and Tesla, is car is capable of longer range. Audi is rated 202 but drivers get 240. Having the extra capacity helps with battery degradation and range.
Basically the safeties are worth more than the 40 miles of range to me. Your range my vary.
So the 270 works for me, but not for some folks.
vmulla: My opinion of EVs and Tesla is perfectly balanced... in favor of truth, facts, and evidence. I prefer to maintain that balance. I am not interested in supporting Trolls' concept of 'fairly unbalanced' propagation and dissemination of [BOLSHEVIK] disguised as 'opinion' and full of rumor, innuendo, lies, and FUD.
@fish “ 270 range vs. 310 range is an advantage for Tesla but not big enough to overcome the poor AP safeties and the design issues on controls and Tesla's black box attitude to customers.”
I pose a topic such as 1+1; you answer what color grass is.
Your statement was emphatic that range is most important. I point out that the tesla you bought isn’t the longest range tesla, and that it lacks a feature you evidently want that other teslas don’t. Now you muddy the water saying AP is a negative which offsets that primary metric... and yet you bought a car with AP AND with less than best available range AND without a heated steaming wheel.
Point was: if your position that range is the preeminent metric, and if heated starring wheels are important to you, why did you buy a model 3?
“ my vary”
Most unintentionally accurate thing I’ve seen you post.
Nevermind that Teslas can be had with a heated steering wheel.
^ yep. I guess I could have just stopped at “wrong” above. Meh.
“ E-Mustang has the liquid cooled heated battery” @fish
Interesting. So this is the technology that enables the Mach-e to fastcharge at half the rate tesla does?
I like the Ford. I’m just not buying your bullshit that you believe this list of nits makes it a superior product. One could compile an even more compelling list of features that tesla has.
Love the “Johnny Dangerously” reference. Is one of my all time favorite movies. Many here are too you to remember it, you Fargin sneaky bastage ;-)
According to Ford, the car can operate at -50F. I'm just curious if this is unique, or can my Model 3 do it as well.
Is Ford actively heating the battery pack, for example?
“Is Ford actively heating the battery pack, for example?”!weluvm3
That’s what the features say. Some just cool. Kona EV in US just cools while Kona EV in Canada has a dedicated battery heater.
I see no reason why the 3 wouldn't operate at -50. There's a pretty good collection of Teslas above the Arctic circle.
I’d only be worried about storage for any extended period of time. Even industrial grade electronic components are typically rated for -40deg(C/F), and most systems are designed with margin.
As long as you have a power source to keep the ICs above that you should be good. Without it, all bets are off.
Tesla warns against storing unplugged below -25F for more than a day. Diesel is pretty useless without a plug at those temps as well.
I’ll stick to San Diego, where a cold day is 45 F.
Tesla still has better EV tech.
By some accounts, 33% better efficiency. Very cool.
However, Ford is competitive in order areas. In part because they just give people what they seem to want, based on what they have been willing/eager to buy in the past. Very often, it's just small stuff, easily dismissed as unimportant and non-critical. Things like AM Radios, heated steering wheels, driver info in the driver's direct line of sight instead of off to the right, more controls operated by feel and muscle memory, blind spot warning indicators built into the mirrors and etc.
Hey, I've got a Model 3. i drive it every day. I love the responsiveness and handling. But, even after >1 of daily driving, some things that people have assured me I wouldn't care about still bug me. If I could buy a car that offers similar performance and handling, and also makes my daily drive a bit more comfy or enjoyable, then I'll buy that car instead (all else being equal.) Ford may not know how to make the most efficient EV drive train, but they do know how to tick those other little boxes to make people buy their cars.
An EV drivetrain is such a massive improvement over ICE, even Ford's less efficient version is still way better than most of the cars on the road today. Put a big enough battery and motor in there, and it goes fast and far enough to satisfy me. And probably most consumers.
No, I didn't read all five pages.
Perhaps I could feel some respect for Ford if they would bury the fifty-plus-year-old-Mustang name, finally.
My mistake. No, I couldn't.
Long live the Falcon. I'll buy a Ford when...... uh, never.
jebinc: I have literally tried for years to get people here to acknowledge the brilliance of 'Johnny Dangerously'. Alas, too many among us are Humour Impaired. I dare not quote 'Blazing Saddles', 'Young Frankenstein', 'Animal House', 'The Blues Brothers', '48 Hours', or 'Ghost Busters'. How can any Red Blooded American possibly be unaware of these, or 'Ferris Beuller's Day Off'...?
My 11 year old pointed out that the Mach E's screen is oriented the wrong way to watch Netflix.
Varricks mustang is an iconic name. They should should have called this Edsel.
So you'll have to pony up (sorry) over $50k for the premium package just to get heated seats, just in the front. Pretty sure Tesla offers individual seat heaters in every position for under $40k. Much about the options is yet TBD.
Being a former Mustang GT owner (now Tesla M3 owner) I figured I’d give the Mach E reveal a look. First, Ford has created some confusion by flipping the former Mach 3 name to Mach E and going EV on it. Second, the Mustang has always been a 2 door RWD coupe. Third, (and on to the Mach E design), a “start/stop” button?, a rotary gear selector?, a rotary volume knob cut into the digital tablet display?, the center display in portrait mode?. It appeared to me that this car was rushed in an effort to compete with Model Y. It appeared to be a combination of several vehicles: the interior is half 2020 Explorer, 2020 Edge, the exterior is mostly Jaguar E/I Pace, with the same footprint/dimensions as what will be Model Y. The one lesson here: Tesla’s mission statement (“to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy”) has definitely put Ford (and other traditional carmakers) in an awkward spot, as now they will still have to move ICE inventory and push this EV with a Mustang badge out the door. Kudos to Ford for hastily realizing that the electric revolution is in full effect, and that they’d better get on the right side of the wave, or get washed away. Now if they launch a Shelby GT 500 EV, and a Raptor EV we’ll know they’re serious!!
All these posts belong in the Vaporware tjhread
Btw. Went and looked it up, Ford has 83,000 vehicles left before they run out of tax credits. If they burn through those with the Mach E, as a vehicle it will be a success.
I see a lot of quibbling here about details. With luck, the Mach E will bring a lot of ICE drivers into the EV market. The Mach E specs are close enough to the Y specs to make it a competitive car on the market. The differences between the Y and the Mach E are typical of the differences that exist in the ICE market and allow for more than one product to be successful. They are relatively small differences in technology, comfort features, and styling.
Heated steering wheels are nicer than wearing gloves just like a heated cabin is nicer than dressing in a parka and ski mask while driving on a cold day. Pretending that it isn't a beneficial feature is just being silly.
The Y is clearly more efficient than the Mach E. That will mean something to some people. On the other hand, all EVs are vastly more efficient and cheaper to run than ICEs. The ICE market is not dominated by the most efficient vehicles on the road.
Tesla went all out in making the interior of the 3/Y stand out from the crowd. That appeals to many people but certainly not to everyone. This will be a matter of taste.
One feature missed on FISHEV's list is control of the windshield wipers on the steering wheel stalk. I actually think this would beat everything else he has listed.
One last comment. The E-tron does offer a heated steering wheel. However, getting it precludes you from getting automatic lane holding since it requires a different steering wheel. My colleague recently purchased one of these and chose the heated steering wheel over lane holding. That one left me somewhat dumbfounded.
"With luck, the Mach E will bring a lot of ICE drivers into the EV market."
The big question is the sincerity of the effort. Are they doing this just for market share or are they putting together an ecosystem to support the long term adoption. I do not think ICE manufacturers are sincere with the effort and IMO they stand to hurt the EV market. I am not much for conspiracy theories but my experience with Ford is the dealer treated me and my Cmax Energi like orphans.
-@ReD eXiLe ms us
Didn't know... Keep trying! I know you "..know this grapevine..." I must have seen it 15+ times over the years. Even have a copy on DVD. "Sure would be nice to see ma spit again..." ;-)
It appears to me that they would not have diluted the Mustang brand for an EV that they did not want to make. Whether they will be able to deliver or have the expertise to make this a compelling EV is an open question.
But they paid Idris Elba a lot of scratch to hype this vehicle and they want an ROI.
@SamO Yes, there has been a lot of blasphemy talk about Furd "tarnishing" the Mustang legacy. Four door Mustang makes as much sense as a Panamera to me, a loser. Well Furd almost killed Mustang once with Mustang II so maybe they are trying harder this time. Sequential tail lights might nab a few but we will have to wait and see. I was very disappointed Ford dropped the CMax Energi instead of revamping to make it better.
Like i said in the other thread. That's not my Mustang, that's the car that ate my Mustang!
Oh, and just to be clear. When Ford dropped the Cmax Energi they were introducing an even bigger gas burner in the new GT Mustang. Ford, and the rest of the ICE folks, are trying to uphold the gas burning Mach(o) image, they are not trying for a paradigm shift.
"The Y is clearly more efficient than the Mach E."@Iwantmy3
270 miles Mach-E vs. 280 miles Model Y. If you mean that MachE does it with 98kWh battery and Model Y with an 84kWh(?) battery we don't really know what the Ford efficiency is yet. If they oversized the battery as Audi on the eTron so that stated range is 20% less than actual range. What Tesla did with Model 3 LR AWD with 5% oversizing.
Hyundai Kona EV is more efficient in miles per rated kWh than Tesla with similar battery tech. Using the extra capacity to compensate for cold weather, hot weather, degradation, operational losses to insure that rated range is what people new to EV's get so no surprises.
Audi owners seeing 204 rated range but 240 estimated range are happy to have the 20% margin.
I will say this, Ford is pumping out the commercials and now the others are stepping up their advertising for there EV's. Overall result may make more people want them but I fear they probably will not do enough to set realistic expectations. We see many come here in the winter to try and understand why the range drops or why regen does not work, etc. The others will be faced with same and I am not sure their legacy gas consuming customers will be of the same mindset as Tesla Customers. For me Tesla was a brand new company to me. I researched it and was able to set my expectations accordingly.
I am thinking legacy Ford customers may just go in without setting expectations (hey it is a Ford so it is good, right) and I wonder how Ford will hold up to it.
I bought a brand new 2003 Lincoln Aviator. A couple years later Furd basically abandoned Lincoln for a while, my engine blew up at just over 90K, and fixing would have put me deep underwater with it. I had to sell if for scrap. I am still a Ford fan but with mixed feelings on how sincere they are.
Mach E has not been certified. It’s all conjecture including 0-60 times. All other comparable EVs are 5-10 years behind Tesla in these basics, notwithstanding the lies about anecdotal range which counter most common reported experiences. Every company needs to start somewhere and it is laudable that efforts are finally being made, but the comparisons are going to be embarrassing to them for the foreseeable future.
I like the style of the Mach E, minus the grill. Its not a bad car on paper.
I think that the car isn't bad, however they should not have used the mustang namesake. too much hate from fanboys and ruins the view of the car in the public eye.
I too think that the use of Mustang name was a mistake. Too many shitheels out there.I really hope it doesn't hurt them as I currently believe.
Just to add to with @Magic is saying.... The people need to be educated on EVs. PLUS, The Dealers need to be edicated enough to educate the buyers.
Interesting to me that at around 23 minutes into the youtube version of the reveal, they show 278 miles to go with 68% SoC. That equates to about 409 miles range (no buffer or margin). That is about what a Tesla M3 RWD would get with a 100 KWh battery.
@jeb & @red
Did you know your last name is an adverb?
I know and love the movies in that movie list you gave. Just not really on topic in most of these threads.
I love to see other automakers getting into electric vehicles. I think having a variety of choices is inherently better for the consumer.
My only concern is that the general public has quite a bit of skepticism of EVs, so many of which are outdated or unfounded. If the automakers new to EV overhype and under deliver, the end result will be even greater skepticism and distrust. The two areas that always concern me most are rated mileage and availability of charging infrastructure.
I hope my concerns are unfounded as a evolution to EVs is everyone's best interest.
I would like to see Ford, and others, set up separate companies with independent sales channels and support networks for their EV offerings.
"On my end, the process started with Ford advertising its nearly non-existent electric car line up to me the past few months, and was followed by Ford rolling out what I think is the most impressive non-Tesla electric car that the market has seen so far. The Mustang Mach-E looks like an outstanding electric car."
"..most impressive non-Tesla..."
Clearly, I am not the only one who believes that E-tron and I-pace were poopy offerings.
"If the automakers new to EV overhype and under deliver, the end result will be even greater skepticism and distrust."@thorvund
I think that's why you see Audi oversize the e-Tron battery and go with a lower than EPA test range on the car. The over-sizing will take care of the cold weather issue, degradation, hot weather issues even driving issues so owners will always get the rated 204 and typically more.
Ford looks to have done the same on the Mach-E with a 98kWh battery and lower stated range. Regular drivers who are considering EV's
@M8B: Can you expand on that? I'd like to understand the benefits of creating an entirely new sales and support channel. It seems like a very expensive duplication of efforts. I assume Ford and other legacy manufacturers will provide EV training to some of their sales staff and create experts at each dealership.
I'm not sure why there is so much concern about the education and support for owners. Buyers didn't know a damn thing about EVs when Tesla started selling them and they did just fine. I cay also say that Tesla's "sales" staff didn't know any more about my car than I did when I bought it.