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Range

Range

First day driving. 107 miles exhausted battery to 17%? Is that right? I have standard range plus that is supposed to get 250 miles. It’s charging to 90%. Not doing anything too powerful I don’t think. Driving in vegas valley. No mountains. No weather conditions. I do have 19” sport wheels that impacts. Air set 70 it’s probably 60s outside and sunny today. Does this sound normal? What could impact so much?

Also I just now set braking to standard. I tend to roll into stops. Is this bad?

Magic 8 Ball | 9 décembre 2019

YMMV
Yes
Cold, headwinds, lead foot
No

coleAK | 9 décembre 2019

How fast were you going? Over 60mph for any amount of time? More uphill than down?

WW_spb | 9 décembre 2019

Очередной кретин

spuzzz123 | 9 décembre 2019

New tires hurt range. After you get about 500-800 miles you’ll get a bump.

casun | 9 décembre 2019

high of 60 in las vegas today. cold will negatively affect range.

stebo1 | 9 décembre 2019

The best calculation that I have seen for SR/SR+ is use percentage and double it while staying in between 10% and 90%.

So if you have 90%, expect 180 miles before you hit 10%. Doesn’t sound like you are getting anywhere close to that, we’re you on the highway the whole time going above 80?

I suppose that LR folks can do the same trick and triple their miles/percentage since they have about 30% more battery. It would make sense that starting with 90%, you could count on 240 miles before you get down to 10% again (80x3).

robert rogus | 9 décembre 2019

My experience is that temp in the 60’s is very good for range, because you really don’t need to heat the cabin much at all. What is your wh/mi reading fit the day or the trip or since delivery?

FISHEV | 9 décembre 2019

90%/216 miles Rated Range. Is that what Rated Range showed?
17% left/40 miles Rated. Is that what Rated Range showed?

73% to go 107 miles is definitely not what you should be seeing

Look at the Energy graph to see what is your Estimated Range which is what your energy use was last 5/20/30 miles.

Magic 8 Ball | 9 décembre 2019

Please read this thread before engaging with FISHEV. FISHEV used to be EaglesPDX and is a known virus.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/fishev-story

robert rogus | 9 décembre 2019

Magic and Fish are having a bicker.

TexasBob | 9 décembre 2019

@robert - yup, a serious bicker. But in this instance, Fish is right. There, I said it. It needed saying. Fish is right. If the above data is all correct, you are consuming kWh faster than you should. That said.... to the OP

The real Highway EPA rating for your car is 232 (look it up on fueleconomy.gov )
The EPA rates highway milage at an average speed of 48.3 mph. If you were cruising around at 70+ it takes a toll.
If you were using the slider to charge at 90% it may be wrong (e.g. more like 88%). Try using one of the various apps like Command.
17% may not be 17%. The range estimator is not always super accurate (understatement).
What spuzz says is also correct. Give the tires a couple hundred miles.
Relax and try it again. Pay attention to the wh/mi and see.
But if this persists, then take it into the SC. There *is* such a thing as bad battery modules coming out of the factory. It can happen. Probably didn't. Probably fine. But see how it goes in next few weeks.

yudansha™ | 9 décembre 2019

@Magic 8 Ball Bully. Telling people what to do all the time.

stebo1 | 10 décembre 2019

Oh and make sure you have updated your tire configuration in the software!

billtphotoman | 10 décembre 2019

The 2 really big rocks in the bag of rocks that affect range:
1) Speed - wind resistance goes up with the square of the speed. See https://teslike.com/range/
2) Use of the heater combined with short trips. There is a fixed cost to initially warm the car and if that is amortized over a lot of short trips your energy use will drop a lot. 1 100 mile trip is much less "expensive" than 10 10 mile trips. I suspect even in Vegas it is cool enough in the mornings to require heat.
Neither of these are Tesla specific of course and 1) is actually more of a factor with non-Tesla BEVs due to their poorer aerodynamics.

billtphotoman | 10 décembre 2019

Arghh. Hit return too early and there is no edit function: "There is a fixed cost to initially warm the car and if that is amortized over a lot of short trips your energy use will drop a lot." -> There is a fixed cost to initially warm the car and if that is amortized over a lot of short trips your energy use will INCREASE a lot.

gballant4570 | 10 décembre 2019

If its sunny and 60 degrees, don't run heat. The sun thru the glass is free, and will work better in those conditions. If you are enjoying the acceleration, there is a cost. If you are on highways at speed there is a cost. Keep a trip meter running, and keep 45 psi in your tires, and pay attention to the wh/m. Doing these things will make you understand what driving behavior is required to meet or exceed the EPA estimate. Once you have that down, you'll know when to enjoy performance and when to preserve range.

gballant4570 | 10 décembre 2019

And with the braking part.... you want strong regen, and get into how one pedal driving works. Remember that coasting costs less than regenerating - you had to spend to regen, and there is a loss between the two. This means set to "hold". I'm uncertain if that was the same thing you meant by braking set at standard or not.... but with one pedal driving, you can control all aspects with the accelerator except unexpected braking requirements. Using regen instead of braking for normal planned stopping preserves range. Keeping the slightest pressure on the pedal keeps the car from going into hold, so it just takes a bit of practice.

Devilstower | 10 décembre 2019

Over 6k miles in Missouri, with conditions ranging from broiling hot to icy cold, I've averaged 247 whr / mile. I'm also on the edge of the Ozarks, so lots and LOTS of up and down involved in almost every trump i make. A short trip can be okay, or terrible. But I charge to 90% each night, and over a distance of more than a few miles the car seems to be remarkably consistent.

So, what the original poster notes is 73% of the battery -- roughly 40 Kwhr. For me, that would generate about 162 miles.

107 miles isn't unreasonable, but it would seem to indicate a power usage close to 375 whr / mile. Which is quite high. You could easily get there with a lot of small trips, or with a lead foot, but it still seems extravagant usage over a prolonged drive.

Devilstower | 10 décembre 2019

And you know I spend too much time writing political stuff (which is what I do for a living) when an attempt to write the word "trip" ends up with "trump."

Joshan | 10 décembre 2019

If you just got the car today I have to assume you are hitting the accelerator hard. Just like a gas car, the driver can easily change the mileage.

FISHEV | 10 décembre 2019

“Magic and Fish are having a bicker.”

Hey don’t drag me into it. I just talk about my Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and don’t respond to the off topic stuff from @M8B and the delete gang.

To this topic the “LR” part really takes a hit in Winter. Not just the 30% drop in range but in managing it with no home charging as “30 miles to charger” means it has to be “20 miles to charger”. Just now. Started off in AM with 122 on Rated Range. Drive 52 miles to work and arrive with 26 miles of Rated Range and 18 of Estimated. Got back to the charger, 18 miles from work, with 6 miles left.

Be good if Tesla replaced the “Rated Range” green battery icon with an “Estimated Range” based on last 30 miles so people could see it in real time. Having to call up the Energy graphic coves up Nav and Music plus you have to take eyes off road to call up the screen. Or show both.

andy.connor.e | 10 décembre 2019

You're right. It was wrong of us to drag you into it. Should be "Fish is having a bicker".

WW_spb | 10 décembre 2019

Disclaimer!
FishEV is long time Troll that has been banned before under different nickname. Take what he says with grain of salt.
Thank you.

bp | 10 décembre 2019

OP: please repeat your drive with the Trip A reset before heading out, and your energy graph display for 30 miles. Post results (pics, if possible).

yudansha™ | 10 décembre 2019

Disclaimer: you are an Intelligent grownup. Do what you want to and listen to whoever you want to. Don’t let others intimidate you into groupthink.

Magic 8 Ball | 10 décembre 2019

@tanya Now that is funny coming from you, thanks for the laugh.

Switchmon | 10 décembre 2019

I've had similar issues with range, especially going long trips. My mileage went down significantly when I traveled above 70 MPH. At 80 MPH my power seemed to drain 50% faster, Look at the line under the speedometer and see if the black line to the right is going way too far to the right and temper your driving. More green to the left of center or close to the middle are where you want to be to be as efficient as possible. Regenerative braking is your friend but it may not always be possible.

This scenario irks me because I am a lead foot and I love to feel myself sink into the seat when I accelerate...but it comes at a cost to the power consumption. I too have a SR+, so in a couple of years I will get a longer range model.

yudansha™ | 10 décembre 2019

@ Magic 8 Ball did not know old creepy man can laugh.

robert rogus | 10 décembre 2019

Switch, even with SR you can drive around for about two to three hours during the day and come back home and charge, even with 33% cold weather range loss. Not many people do that much driving routinely.

WW_spb | 10 décembre 2019

@Tabya, why u so sore? Maybe you need vacation from your 25 kids?

stingray.don | 10 décembre 2019

Not sure what all the fuss is about with range and winter driving. Driving home today, it was 28 f with the heater set to 73 plus seat heat (I like it toasty) and speed set to 63 MPH. Wh/m was about 330 for about the first 10 miles. The rest of the trip averaged 265, which is about a measly 10% range hit. What’s the big deal?

robert rogus | 10 décembre 2019

Stingray, I’ve seen about 290 wh/mi and 20% range loss in those conditions. But I get the point that it’s not a huge deal overall. The only problem I could see would be long winter road trips where you need to be at 80mph for long stretches. I think range loss could be close to 33% in that case.

robert rogus | 10 décembre 2019

Stopping for forty minutes every 2.5 to 3 hours could be a pain, but I haven’t had that type of trip in 1.5 yrs owning the car, so I can’t say for sure. Summer road trips are no problem, I’ve done a bunch.

rwestrol | 11 décembre 2019

I just took delivery of my model 3 performance yesterday and have a similar issue. While I did not expect to get the advertised 310 miles per charge, I was hoping to get maybe 90% of that. I have 2 offices that I need to get to, one is 100 miles one way and the other is 124 miles. I was assured prior to ordering that I would be able to make it there and back on a single charge. Drove it this morning starting with a full charge and hit 50% one exit before the closer office and by the time I got to the office at 124 miles I was at 41%. I tried to ask Tesla about the kWh/mile number but they had no clue. What is a reasonable number for kWh/mile under typical highway conditions?

bradbomb | 11 décembre 2019

@rwestrol A lot more information is needed for context. I'm assuming you charged the vehicle to 100% and pulled it off the charger in the morning right before you left, so hopefully you started with a warm battery. What was the temp outside where you live today? Any excess wind? Is your commute even terrain or very hilly? How are you on the accelerator? How fast were you going? Stop and go traffic or highway cruising? All these different things can affect what you get.

stingray.don | 11 décembre 2019

Also, if range is your primary concern, then you would be better off with a non P LR version with the 18” aero wheels.

rwestrol | 11 décembre 2019

I had it set up for a scheduled start so it would be warm and full when I pulled it off the charger at 100%. Temps ranged from mid 40s to low 50s. Almost entirely highway driving, spent about 30% or so of the drive at 70mph rest between 45 and 65. Zero hard accels per Tesla support. I think the terrain is pretty typical, not the salt flats but not San Francisco either. I probably would have gone with the non P LR version or maybe downgraded the wheels to 18" aero if that was an option, but I did not know the difference the wheels would make until I read an article a few days ago. The Tesla ordering site did not mention it nor did any of the advisors I spoke with. The site still advertises 310 miles range vs. 322 for the LR so I figured 12 miles wasn't much of a difference. Honestly, I am hoping that my low range is an aberration and due to some battery or software issue so I can keep the car.

rwestrol | 11 décembre 2019

Over the life of the car I am averaging 330 Wh/mile with 420 miles using 139 kWh energy. Most of that on chill mode because I thought it would be more economical. Tesla rep said that sport mode was the better option for range. Last trip on sport mode I went 146 miles using 46 kWh at 311 Wh/mile. Am I correct that the car has a 75 kWh battery capacity? So that would give me at best a range of 240 miles.

Sarah R | 11 décembre 2019

Coming from having a Volt for the last 4 years, with its 53 mile rated battery, I learned how to get the most out of it. I regularly saw between 240 and 250 wh/mi (4 - 4.1 Mi/kWh). My first week in my M3SR+ was a bit of an eye opener. I was at 323 wh/mi! My second week has been much better. I've got 500 miles on the tires. I checked the air pressure to 45 psi cold. I set the acceleration mode to "chill" and drive like the little old lady that I am. And use TACC/AP. If you find that you're stuck behind someone who just can't keep a steady speed, roll the set speed back, otherwise TACC will mirror that driver's insane acceleration and deceleration, giving you the same terrible energy efficiency as him.

I've got my cumulative efficiency down to 253 wh/mi (3.95 mi/kWh) and my most recent commute round trip was 218 wh/mi. (4.59 mi/kWh)

Elon Musk needs to create a "Little Old Lady" mode. The opposite of "Plaid Mode". Go ahead, call it "LOL" mode. But all settings for efficiency.

Bighorn | 11 décembre 2019

@rawestrol
I didn’t see mention of your climate usage. That’s a likely sink. And 72.5 kWh is a more accurate capacity estimate. Average for your fitment is probably around 290 Wh/m. You’ll probably see about a 20 Wh/m improvement as the tires wear in. Chill vs sport is pretty inconsequential.

robert rogus | 11 décembre 2019

@rwestrol With winter conditions, using heater, and driving fast, you could see usage well above 300wh/mi with as much as 33% range loss. 200 mile round trip should be ok, but 248 round trip could be pushing it. Averaging 330 wh/mi sounds very high in the situation you mentioned. The time you spend 45 to 65 mph should be helping your range a lot. My average wh/mi after 18 months with the car is 242, which equates to maybe 8% range loss.

Devilstower | 11 décembre 2019

I’m not sure what could be making such a difference. I’m not a slow driver. I almost always have two or more people in the car. Missouri pretty much defines bad weather and the Ozarks pretty much epitomize hilly terrain.

I’ve never once put the car on “chill.”

247 Whr / mi. Pretty much like clockwork. That includes a pair of 1000 mile road trips. Though I did set the speed on those trips at 75, not 80.

lbowroom | 11 décembre 2019

Just dropping in, but if the OP doesn’t tell us his speed, there is no conclusion to be drawn about what an acceptable remaining range would be.

bradbomb | 11 décembre 2019

When I first got my Model 3, I think I was averaging 240-270 wh/mi, but as I learned to drive differently with a Tesla, my lifetime wh/mi average is down to 230 (I recommend keeping Trip B as a Lifetime stat and you can rename it that). I have 11,634 miles on the odometer and other than one driving trip to Vegas, this has mostly been driving within the LA area.

With the amount of miles you are putting on daily, I would definitely look into nearby superchargers and calculating a 15 min stop there once as a buffer

bradbomb | 11 décembre 2019

When I first got my Model 3, I think I was averaging 240-270 wh/mi, but as I learned to drive differently with a Tesla, my lifetime wh/mi average is down to 230 (I recommend keeping Trip B as a Lifetime stat and you can rename it that). I have 11,634 miles on the odometer and other than one driving trip to Vegas, this has mostly been driving within the LA area.

With the amount of miles you are putting on daily, I would definitely look into nearby superchargers and calculating a 15 min stop there once as a buffer

rwestrol | 12 décembre 2019

Thanks for the input. My drive this morning was the same 124.2 miles and I arrived with 44% remaining. A 3% improvement but still not enough to get home and certainly not if I'm running the battery in the recommended 10-90% charge range. I set the cruise at 65 so that was the max except for a short burst to 68 so I could get out of the way of a Prius that came roaring up my tail. Averaged 326 Wh/mile for the trip. Once I figured out how to turn off the climate I tried it and got down closer to 300 Wh/mile but froze after a few minutes. Not realistic to drive without climate control and music. It's not a UPS truck. Tesla sent me a text this am assuring me that they ran an auto diagnostic on my battery pack and it is fine. I spoke to another performance owner at the supercharger last night who said he typically gets 280 to 300 miles per full charge. Has had it for a year. I just don't understand how this vehicle could be operating as intended. Something is drawing an inordinate amount of power. It's like I am dragging a trailer. I now have 500 miles on the vehicle and tires. Thanks again everyone.

Bighorn | 12 décembre 2019

People who forego a toasty cabin use seat heaters and a good coat. Music is not part of the calculus, nor headlights or wipers. Performance owners on 20s average about 300 Wh/m. I believe you may have misunderstood the owner saying they get 300 miles of range between charged—maybe that’s the rated range, but not achieved, certainly not over multiple trips. Model S and X are significantly less efficient.

Bighorn | 12 décembre 2019

And dragging a trailer? My friend with an X who does so sees up to 1000 Wh/m or 1/3 of your efficiency. Bottom line is that the winter is less efficient if you’re running the heat.

WEST TEX EV | 12 décembre 2019

So 124.2 mi 1 way commute. And u buy a car with 240mi range.... I don’t get the math. Even if u get 100% range.

derotam | 12 décembre 2019

@rwestrol: What temp are you setting your climate to?

Part of it could be related to new tires needing to break in but I wouldn't know how much. My gut says that it should get a bit better over the next ~1000 miles, but that is not accounting for weather changes. Colder temps are just going to make it get a bit worse.

Is there any charging facilities between you and the offices you need to get to? Do you mind sharing some general locations, what City to what City?

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