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Tesla sales person told me that CA ran out of money for the rebate already, possible no Fed incentive next year

Tesla sales person told me that CA ran out of money for the rebate already, possible no Fed incentive next year

I test drove a MS this afternoon and the store manager showed me link that say the CA incentives ran out and those that are buying gets on a waiting list. He also pointed out that the MS 60 has been selling like hot cakes and based on the record year, it's possible that Tesla will be out of the incentives by the time the M3 comes out. I looked at him and laughed and said if Tesla let that happen, I can assure you that they'll loose a large chunk of the M3 reservation, Elon isn't gonna let that happen. Although I know there are some sales pitch to it. At the same time felt like Tesla store was hardly any difference than any other dealership in that sense.

PaceyWhitter | 26 juin 2016

If Tesla let that happen? I mean, they would try to make sure as many people get the tax rebates as possible but they are not going to stop selling the X and S. If too many sell, that is a good problem for Tesla to have.

topher | 26 juin 2016

No, it's not. Tesla wants to sell as many cars as possible which are eligible for the federal tax credit. That means timing the rollout of the Model ≡ for just after the 200,000 US delivery is made. Selling a few more Model S and X and losing 10,000s of Model ≡ is a terrible problem to have.

Since we are seeing Tesla pushing the Model S, we should assume they don't see that as an issue.

Red Sage ca us | 26 juin 2016

OP: Different States have their own incentive programs for electric vehicles. The Great State of California has a pool of cash that they use for EV Rebates at $2,500 per qualifying car annually. It 'runs out' for all automobile manufacturers at the same time. Some time ago, the regulations governing the distribution of that EV Rebate was changed to be either diminished or eliminated based upon the income of the buyer. This is NOT the same as the Federal EV Tax Credit of up to $7,500 offered by the IRS.

carlk | 26 juin 2016

CA runs out of money every year but it always gets more funding in the new budget year. No guarantee of course but it always happened. They will put you on the waiting list if you passed the deadline when you purchased the car like I did in 14'.

As for the federal tax rebate it will start to phase out for each manufacturer when sales reached 200K. That probably will happen for Tesla in a few months after 3 delivery. This rule is certainly irrational because it punishes companies that makes better effort. Obama did propose a new rule in 05' budget that will not have manufacturer limitation but will slowly phase off for every company in a few years. Unfortunately it was not included in the final budget that passed.

Red Sage ca us | 26 juin 2016

OP: Also, Elon Musk has warned since 2013 that the Federal Tax Credit might be gone before Tesla Generation III vehicles arrived. He has noted that when asked if the $35,000 amount was before, or after, tax incentives. So, no... Not a 'sales pitch' or other means to get people to commit to buying as soon as possible. It is more a reasoned response to the current political climate, that may snatch away incentives in a heartbeat and without valid explanation. No one should expect to get tax incentives or rebates for Model ☰. Lawmakers and legislators seem to always work slowly, in a measured fashion, until they have the opportunity to sabotage, eliminate, or end so-called 'Green' initiatives practically overnight, and just before a session closes.

dannieboiz | 26 juin 2016

So what some of you are saying, buy the MS now in case there won't be credit for the M3?

Drdpharris | 26 juin 2016

That is an option ... although if you can afford the premium to move up to an S or X, perhaps the rebate should not be as important to you? One has to make their best decision based on available info. Getting an S now will give you at least 1.5 years more of enjoying a Tesla!

dannieboiz | 26 juin 2016

Drdpharris, weather one can afford it or not, the 7500-10k incentives will be a selling point to be taken into consideration. Can I afford it? Probably. Do I want to save $10k? DEFINITELY!

My thoughts of the S remain the same yesterday as I had the first time I sat in one. Very techie, different, cool and fast but the seats, the interior and the overall vehicle doesn't make you feel like you're sitting in a 100k vehicle. I understand that what make this vehicle priced the way it is, is the fact that it's an all electric and extremely advance, the engineering behind the scene is amazing but all that doesn't transfer to the passenger and driver when sitting in the vehicle.

I know some of you might feel different. But for an example, when I sit in an S550 which is I know apples to oranges, I felt every single detail of the vehicle was taken into consideration and I knew I was sitting in a 6 figure vehicle. But I didn't get that in the loaded P90D.

However, for me the M3 or the MS is a practical vehicle for life style and daily commute.

sp_tesla | 26 juin 2016

dannieboiz | June 26, 2016

Another lost customer, eventually CEO genius engineer is going to wake up & stop this inferior Interior design non sense!

carlk | 26 juin 2016

@dannieboiz You could look into the X if interior is that important to you, I have not seen one person that is totally amazed of the ultrawhite X interior I have. I also have an S with first generation seat but I have zero issue with the S interior. Those $100K Mercedes or Audi cars really have nothing going for them except the extra money they put into the interior. As for the federal tax rebate if you don't have an early M3 reservation, or even if you do and you're not a Tesla employee or current Tesla owner, the chance that you could get the first delivery in time for the full amount is probabaly pretty small.

carlos | 26 juin 2016

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Few or none of the Model 3 owners will see any kind of Federal incentives, it is just NOT going to happen, current build VIN of MS is at 147K, it is likely going to be at 200K at the end of this year or early next year. Incentives are just that...."incentives". If you want the car, buy it....if not fuck it.

dannieboiz | 26 juin 2016

The real question is how many of those went to the US

28delayslater | 27 juin 2016

This topic is obviously covered elsewhere in the forum but yes 1) the rebate goes by US sales, 2) it begins to phase out during the quarter tesla hits 200,000. Rebate is available for one more quarter. 3) then rebate is cut in half. So it seems likely that model 3 owners have a shot at the $7500 fed credit or at least half that amount. 4) I don't think the rebate will be make or break for most reservations. I think people will just get less options.

PhillyGal | 27 juin 2016

@carlos - VIN 147xxx is worldwide. The 200,000 limit is for US sales.

The first US deliveries of M3 will surely see the full Federal tax credit. The question will be - how quickly can Tesla ramp up production to cram as many M3 deliveries as possible into that first quarter after the 200k mark. THAT is what will determine how many people get the full credit.

Could be 5 people, could be 50,000 people.

dannieboiz | 27 juin 2016

and btw.... the purpose of my post wasn't to see if we will get the credit as there were enough threads on it.

What I was trying to say is Tesla sales was like any other dealer, which to I was a little surprised.

carlk | 27 juin 2016

@dannieboiz

They were mostly giving you info you might not aware of. As far as I understand store clerks don't work on commission or credit. Some might be more enthusiastic than others but nothing like the dealer stuff that their incomes depends on each sale. I was actually a little disappointed three years ago when I test drove the S. I was expecting the guy to try to say something to push me, and wife, to go place an order but all he said was have a nice day at the end of the test drive.

TeslaTap.com | 27 juin 2016

@dannieboiz - I guess you've never bought a car in the USA. Dealers here are total scam artists. The "price" quoted is never the final price as they put you through various people to scam up the price with crap that is mostly worthless. You never know who got a better deal than you or how badly you were scammed. Most salesmen also use various tricks to convince customers that the purple crap-mobile sitting on the lot is exactly what they want.

At Tesla, the price is clear, everyone pays the same price. You order online - you don't even need to visit a showroom or talk to anyone. No tricks to upsell something you don't need or want. The people in the showroom are not on any commision either, they they actually want to help you. Tesla showrooms are nothing like any dealer I've seen, because they are not dealers.

tesla | 27 juin 2016

dannieboiz said "and btw.... the purpose of my post wasn't to see if we will get the credit as there were enough threads on it. What I was trying to say is Tesla sales was like any other dealer, which to I was a little surprised."

Yeah, I see your point. The salesperson's comment, depending upon the intonation, and I wasn't there, you were, could be construed a variety of ways. Eh? One wild guess might be that, possibly, rather than trying to push a sale forward, if that's how you took it, it may either just have been some ignorance on the part of the manager (not being aware of the ratio between domestic and foreign sales)... or, as suggested carlk, strictly informational.

The fact is everything you relay that he said is "possible", It depends on the variables of how many MS and X deliveries before the M3 ships, as well as when the M3 ships. We don't know. We guess. But we don't know. It is within the realm of possibility that deliveries of the S and X could exhaust the sweet spot of the Fed incentive if delivery of the 3 slips (and not by all that much).

But also, regarding your comment about Elon not letting that happen, we might want to be mindful of our Elon-Koolaid intake. It's easy to overdo it. Aside from any possible behind the scenes lobbying, Tesla has little control over when the Fed incentives expire.

The one lever Tesla does have, and someone in a similar post suggested Elon has claimed he will use it, is to halt US shipments when US vehicle 199,999 is delivered, and from there deliver all vehicles overseas until the first day of the next quarter. By shipping US vehicle # 200k on the first day of a quarter (any quarter), a full six months of domestic deliveries can be made with all of the vehicles qualifying for the full tax credit (the "up to 6 month" assertion has been hashed out in another thread recently, with folks arriving at consensus, and need not be repeated here).

So as PhillyGal points out, and this is the third variable (aside from an extension of the credit, which I'll bet anyone a nickel will occur), it depends on how fast Tesla is able to ramp production in that time frame.

Finally, for anyone who would prefer to buy an S with full Fed incentives, as opposed to a 3 with reduced/eliminated incentives, there will be a window for safely making that decision once the magic 200K number gets hit. There will be a 3 to 6 month window to choose one or the other, depending.

PhillyGal | June 27, 2016

@carlos - VIN 147xxx is worldwide. The 200,000 limit is for US sales.

The first US deliveries of M3 will surely see the full Federal tax credit. The question will be - how quickly can Tesla ramp up production to cram as many M3 deliveries as possible into that first quarter after the 200k mark. THAT is what will determine how many people get the full credit.

Could be 5 people, could be 50,000 people.

tesla | 27 juin 2016

(Sorry to paste your comment to the bottom PhillyGal. I copied your post just to be sure I spelled you name right). Ha ha. It's a shame posts can't be edited.)

PhillyGal | 27 juin 2016

Why yes, you certainly spelled my name right :)

dannieboiz | 28 juin 2016

Tesla tap... well.... I used to work @ a Stealership (YES IN THE US).

Test drive guy was very enthusiastic and the whole sales floor was eager to keep me around to go through the whole online ordering process. I might have taken good customer service the wrong way, who knows. The one year working @ the dealership after high school haunt me to this day.

We're considering the MS not just in case the incentives won't be around for the m3. We were hoping the MS was good enough to replace our current weekend/family car.... details on that can be found on the MS forum.

Haggy | 29 juin 2016

When I ordered my MS the website had nothing about the California rebate and I was told that funding ran out. By the time I got the car, it was back on Tesla's website and California was giving the rebate again. That was two years ago. There are no guarantees but the program exists under current law and the funding isn't there. The funding should come back but I bought the car and took my chances.