Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton Or Donald J. Trump?
Neither. Kinda dumb thing to do for a CEO of a major government contractor plus CEO of an Automaker.
Elon has said in the past he is a libertarian.
So If he did endorse it would probably be Gary Johnson.
He can stand on principal and not risk endorsing the only real opponent of the eventual winner and future POTUS.
Do the libertarians believe in climate change?? it involves tax money so I think no. I would have definitely pegged him for a Dem.
This is the best I could come up with
I believe it was at the last shareholders meeting Q&A, that Elon made it quite clear, in the indirect way he often does, that he does not support Trump. He also said that he would possibly support a candidate if he thought his support would make a difference. I think he could do more damage to himself and Tesla by doing so, than any possible benefit to the outcome of the election.
We sure know who he does not want to see to be the POTUS.
If he is for Wall Street, Bankers, and the extreme cost for healthcare for families, and the same old politics of back room deals, he would be a Hillary supporter.
Libertarians, would rule out Hillary also.
Bloomberg just spoke at the DNC as an Independent and strongly endorsed Hillary Clinton for President of the United States of America. You can replay the video.
Bloomberg is a classy billionaire as compared to another one.
If you are a physicain and Billary gets elected prepare for massive Medicare fee cuts. Many docs I know simply stopped taking Medicare because they cannot afford to keep a practice going with the mountains of paper work (or electronic systems), RFAs, and all the other crapola associated with trying to get a practice profitable. Medicare reimbursement is already terrible...don't you think ? Hillary will just make it that much worse by attempting to insure millons of people without the necessary funding (oh that's right she's going to tax the top 1 % out of existence). Let's be real. It's going to be the top 30% minimum.
Trump may not be "classy" but he has what it takes (business sense) to do the job. Also, we cannot afford to allow a border that is infusing our country with people who can't speak the language (English) and compete for marginal jobs (lowering the wages of citizens) and then suck us dry with government benefits.
Bottom line, Hillary will not enforce our borders and will flood our country with immigrants who will take from the government coffers thus bankrupting our country. I say yes to legal immigration but a resounding no to illegal immigration. How are you going to do background checks on people who have no documentation ? How will you weed out Radical Islamic Terrorists ? These are real serious questions which Hillary dismesses as paranoia. She will loose this election.
1.Healthcare is a right not a privilege. Patients not being able to get appropriate care is a disgrace. Our health care policy still needs improvement.
2. A classy wealthy billionaire's opinion of a classless billionaire who is too scared to release his tax returnshttps://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/07/27/donald-...
3. As regards illegal immigration. I know you are someone who is uncomfortable researching facts and it's easier for you to believe hateful racist rhetoric from a fascist. But let me bore you with some more facts.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/28/barack-ob...
4. A beautiful expensive fence with Trumps name emblazoned in gold would have to be how deep to prevent tunnels??? Let's ask an engineer how to get it donehttp://www.nationalmemo.com/an-engineer-explains-why-trumps-wall-is-so-i...
5. Retired 4 star general Allenhttp://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/john-allen-endorses-clinton-226110
Sure, Trump's business sense is going to bankrupt this country, because he has a lot experience with that!
Plus, we can look forward to Russian hackers getting a legit jobs, and golfing with Putin. If a democratic candidate ever did that, you'd be foaming at all the orifices in your body shouting worse things than 'lock her up!'
Bottomline, country is thinking 'right' or 'left'. Not 'right' or 'wrong'.
You can try vaunly to false equivocate Hillary to the abominable orange toupee'd Hitler wannabe, but it is not going to win you any fence sitters.
Trump can murder Jesus, and you'd still vote for his 'business sense'.
*vaunly = vainly
When was the last time anyone on this forum made their first Billion dollars or even multi-million dollars? crickets!!!
One candidate made it in the private sector, the other made their multi-millions in speaking fees to Bankers, Investment houses and foreign entities that believe woman are second class citizens, gays should be killed and Christians need to be executed.
Better of two evils. I'll take the businessman from New York.
One would hope Elon will keep his preferences to himself for the sake of the business.
Gary Johnson's views on the environment - from his website:
"The environment is a precious gift and needs to be protected.
Gov. Johnson believes strongly that the first responsibility of government is to protect citizens from those who would do them harm, whether it be a foreign aggressor, a criminal — or a bad actor who harms the environment upon which we all depend.
Consistent with that responsibility, Gary Johnson believes it is the proper role of government to enforce reasonable environmental protections. He did so as Governor, and would do so as President.
However, Gov. Johnson also believes that it is NOT the proper role of government to engage in social and economic engineering for the purpose of manipulating the energy marketplace or creating winners and losers in what should be a robust free market. Such efforts have failed in the past, and are doomed to continue to fail. Preventing a polluter from harming our water or air is one thing. Deciding in Washington, DC, that one source of energy should be subsidized and others penalized is a different matter.
In a healthy economy that allows the market to function unimpeded, consumers, innovators and personal choices will ultimately bring about the environmental restoration and protection society desires. Conversely, destroying prosperity and innovation through government intervention will only harm the environment.
When it comes to global climate change, Gov. Johnson believes too many politicians are having the wrong debate. Is the climate changing? Probably so. Is man contributing to that change? Probably so. The important question, however, is whether the government’s efforts to regulate, tax and manipulate the marketplace in order to impact that change are cost-effective — or effective at all. Given the realities of global energy and resource use, there is little evidence that the burden being placed on Americans is making a difference that justifies the cost."
That said - although Elon views himself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal (similar to the typical libertarian), it would be unlikely that he would endorse Johnson for President.
What does an ethical billionaire think of Trumphttps://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/07/27/donald-...
There are many millionaires on this board. Do not assume.
Also, Trump is a businessman and he failed multiple times ethically, financially and morally in his dealings.
Trump U ( complete fraud ), bankruptcies 4 times, unpaid or underpaid partners and contractors and so many others.
@ SCCRENDO.Ca.US (July 29, 2016)
<< Healthcare is a right not a privilege. >>
The concept of "right" cannot include an entitlement to other people's money or labor. Health care conflates both into an entity that can only be a privilege, that is, an entitlement with clear political underpinnings.
The health care as a right includes shameless forced labor and taxation legislation, which, at the federal level, would trample on the fundamental freedoms that the Constitution guarantees.
The States can indeed experiment with health care entitlements and limitations on freedoms, but the federal government is precluded from such arrangements by the United States Constitution.
For the constitutional background to this matter, please review:
I believe SCCRENDO was assuming a civilised society with his statement.
@remnant, As a physician I am biased and believe in a civilized society it is a righthttp://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/student_voices/debating-health-care-ri...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/health-care-is-a-right-...http://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2014/09/access-healthcare-right-sho...
@ bb0tin (August 3, 2016)
<< I believe SCCRENDO was assuming a civilised society with his statement. >>
Apparently, "civilized" for you two means "based on forced labor and high taxation".
We must acknowledge you do belong in the herd you promote.
But the United States citizens will not, hopefully, allow a villain, steeped in lying and treason and with American Heroes' blood on her hands, to become our Commander in Chief and representative in the international community of nations.
Remnant skip the slander. I really don't want to get too distracted but your libel against Hillary is BS. It is an occupation of Republicans to dig in the dirt. They have been doing it for decades against the Clintons. Nothing has stuck. The evidence against them is always questionable.
Get you own house in order. You are supporting a self confessed bigoted, misogynist, racist narcissist. Get real. When a potential president asks three time if we have nuclear weapons why can't we use them I think the world should worryhttp://www.vox.com/2016/8/3/12367996/donald-trump-nuclear-codeshttp://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-nuclear...http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/04/28/3773692/46-seconds-everyone-sh...
@ SCCRENDO.Ca.US (August 3, 2016)
<< ... [Your] libel against Hillary is BS. [Republicans] ... dig in the dirt ... against the Clintons. >>
No need to dig, no slander or libel.
The Clintons are the top crime family in the country, from Whitewater to Clinton Foundation, every nook and cranny is visible to everyone, except for those determined not to see
Regretfully, your medical training has not achieved much in terms of economics or politics enlightenment.
Your arrogance is merely a self-enhancing, narcissistic trait, otherwise based on thin air or delusional constructs.
You do not need to personally insult people
@ bb0tin (August 4, 2016)
<< You do not need to personally insult people >>
I'll follow your example. Please show the way.
I just did so.
"Available in every nook and cranny"
And what about Trump? No nooks and crannies there. The entire Trump universe is filled with fraud (Trump U), draft dodging, but insulting veteran's families, racism, personal attacks (against a judge of Mexican descent), non endorsement from even fellow republicans, unreachable goals (Mexico will pay for the wall!), desire to start new, mor expensive and dumb wars (we will bomb the crap out of our enemies).
You must be a lunatic to ignore those.
Both have problems, I acknowledge that. One's ponlems are the size of a blue whale, the other, a horse.
You do know that Trump was raised with a very wealthy family right. He is not self made. His father net worth was $250 millions in current day value.
What is Trump current net worth now ? Why is he refuse to even disclose his tax filing.
He is certainly not successful as a business person (self-made) such as the list of these 25 people (2015 list)
Few example are Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Phil Knight, Jack Ma
http://www dot businessinsider dot com/the-25-richest-self-made-billionaires-2015-6
Health care for all is cheaper then the current American system. Everything is cheaper. 60% of personal bankruptcies are because of health care costs. In addition to being the more expensive health care system, the USA has the privilege of being 37th best in health care results. Single payer is the answer, and it will help being manufacturing back as well.
@remnant "But the United States citizens will not, hopefully, allow a villain, steeped in lying and treason and with American Heroes' blood on her hands, to become our Commander in Chief and representative in the international community of nations."
I guess you really would hate Reagan, who let 241 Marines die and then cut and ran. Or Iran Contra where he lied to the American public.
The hypocrisy continues...
@Remnant. You are correct. No economic or politic training at medical school. But I have put in the effort to learn the stuff and always try to reference what I am posting before I post. I don't just take slander off Foxnews or a Trump rally/tweet and keep repeating it. Most of what you say about Hillary is pure slander. I have been hearing all the Clinton slander for decades and witnessed all the congressional hearings against the Clintons and all has turned out negative. In the past few months every slanderous statement I have heard I have googled. They are pretty much nothing versus something slight that gets blown out of proportion by the Fox-Republican-Trump machine. If you wish, post one "scandal" at a time and we can google them together. I am prepared to do the same with Trump except it's probably not neccesary. He is his own worst character witness.
As regards healthcare. It is a right not a privilege. In a civilized society you should have access to all necessary medical care, not just the care you can afford. If you have an illegal alien with tuberculosis or HIV should we deny them treatment because they are illegal and don't have medical insurance. Just let them infect the population??? Should we deny vaccines to poor children or let them die from infections. The biggest complainers about Obama care are my over 65 year olds. They then complain that they don't want the government to mess with their medicare. Our hunter-gatherer ancestors went for survival of the fittest. WE as a society should have evolved
The UN convention states healthcare as a basic human righthttp://www.un DOT org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
An Open Letter From Technology Sector Leaders On Donald Trump’s Candidacy For President Trump would be a disaster for innovation.
We are inventors, entrepreneurs, engineers, investors, researchers, and business leaders working in the technology sector. We are proud that American innovation is the envy of the world, a source of widely-shared prosperity, and a hallmark of our global leadership.
We believe in an inclusive country that fosters opportunity, creativity and a level playing field. Donald Trump does not. He campaigns on anger, bigotry, fear of new ideas and new people, and a fundamental belief that America is weak and in decline. We have listened to Donald Trump over the past year and we have concluded: Trump would be a disaster for innovation. His vision stands against the open exchange of ideas, free movement of people, and productive engagement with the outside world that is critical to our economy—and that provide the foundation for innovation and growth.
Let’s start with the human talent that drives innovation forward. We believe that America’s diversity is our strength. Great ideas come from all parts of society, and we should champion that broad-based creative potential. We also believe that progressive immigration policies help us attract and retain some of the brightest minds on earth—scientists, entrepreneurs, and creators. In fact, 40 percent of Fortune 500 companies were founded by immigrants or their children. Donald Trump, meanwhile, traffics in ethnic and racial stereotypes, repeatedly insults women, and is openly hostile to immigration. He has promised a wall, mass deportations, and profiling.
We also believe in the free and open exchange of ideas, including over the Internet, as a seed from which innovation springs. Donald Trump proposes “shutting down” parts of the Internet as a security strategy ― demonstrating both poor judgment and ignorance about how technology works. His penchant to censor extends to revoking press credentials and threatening to punish media platforms that criticize him.
Finally, we believe that government plays an important role in the technology economy by investing in infrastructure, education and scientific research. Donald Trump articulates few policies beyond erratic and contradictory pronouncements. His reckless disregard for our legal and political institutions threatens to upend what attracts companies to start and scale in America. He risks distorting markets, reducing exports, and slowing job creation.
We stand against Donald Trump’s divisive candidacy and want a candidate who embraces the ideals that built America’s technology industry: freedom of expression, openness to newcomers, equality of opportunity, public investments in research and infrastructure, and respect for the rule of law. We embrace an optimistic vision for a more inclusive country, where American innovation continues to fuel opportunity, prosperity and leadership.
Looks like his candidacy is imploding. At some point the Republican leaders need to realize that he will drag the whole party down with him. If they want to retain the Senate and perhaps even the house they should endorse Hillary for president as an anti Trump vote and and stand by their Republican principle for the down ballot. But as a democrat I am enjoying the civil war and the interesting excuses for Trump. Let's hope this continues so we can get a democrat president, senate and hopefully even the house but more important 3-4 new Supreme Court justices
3-4 new liberal Supreme Court justices
@ sp_tesla (August 4, 2016)
<< We believe in an inclusive country that fosters opportunity, creativity and a level playing field. Donald Trump does not. He campaigns on anger, bigotry, fear of new ideas and new people, and a fundamental belief that America is weak and in decline. >>
Conclusory remarks, standard slogans, Marxist philosophy, non-existent facts, strawman fallacies, ignorance of the Constitution and the American exceptionalism, all of these obviously rooted in strikingly obvious foreign education and values.
For one thing, Trump is not opposed to immigration, diversity, women, or innovation.
You are not just misled or wrong, but any fair-minded American should doubt your logic, judgment, and integrity.
You have no reason to doubt someone's integrity simply because they disagree with you.
"You are not just misled or wrong, but any fair-minded American should doubt your logic, judgment, and integrity."
Sorry, but you have to be really, really far gone to make that comment. Preemptive ascribing. 5th grader tactic. You follow?
@Remnant. I would suggest that Trump is building strawmen and repeating slogans. Crooked Hillary and Lying Ted come to mind. "Foreign education" is another strawman and frankly bigoted. How about the fact that I got a different worldview in a foreign environment for 32 years and now have 31 years of US perspective.
You make ridiculous unsubstantiated statements. You ignore and/or are an apologist for Trumps own words heard directly and build derogatory labels to try discredit those who disagree with you.
I'm not sure what Trump is agianst. The only thing I know is voters he attracts do not like immigration, diversity, women, freedom of religion or innovation and science. He did his best to attract those voters.
@ bob.naughtin (August 5, 2016)
<< You have no reason to doubt someone's integrity simply because they disagree with you. >>
Not with me, but with the truth. Everything @sp_tesla had said about the Donald is a lie.
It bears repeating, Trump is not opposed to immigration, diversity, women, or innovation.
"It bears repeating, Trump is not opposed to immigration, diversity, women, or innovation."
Repeat it 100 times. It still won't come true.
See sinking ship
"I will ban all Muslims" or his variation thereof. His disgusting behavior towards the parents of the deceased military veteran did not suggest a change in attitude
"Building a wall to keep out all Mexican" because they are rspists etc. Building a wall that is actually unbuildsble does not encourage diversity. He is likely more tolerant of European illegals. It appears Melania working illegally in a B1 visa is ok.
" There was blood coming out of her eyes and wherever"
"Women who hsve abortions should go to jail" modified later to only their doctors.
That's for starters.
trumpet takes the cake with this one
www.cnbc D O T com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-scarborough-reports.html
"Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on the international level went to advise Donald Trump. And three times [Trump] asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked at one point if we had them why can't we use them," Scarborough said on his "Morning Joe"
You said "Not with me, but with the truth."
The truth is a subjective assessment and can vary from individual to individual.
People cannot legitimately disagree with what is factually correct though.
The back and forth here is really fun. What especially cracks me up is the utter shock and consternation whenever anyone dares to simply point out facts about Hillary. But railing against Trump is fine. Maybe the Hillary supporters should relax when she is criticized, just as they rejoice when Trump is thrown under the bus. What's good for the goose is also good for the donkey.
Go ahead, criticize her. No one is 'utterly shocked', drama queen. You should know, your party tried to sink her 100 times already. And failed miserably.
So, criticize her. Then, please sit back and allow me to retort for the next 100 pages. Thats how much material your orange toupee'd megalomaniac has on him.
I agree with redshift. Feel free to criticize but it would be nice to substantiate your slander. I have been through this with a few of you guys on this thread. The Hillary slander rolls easily off the lips but nothing ever can be shown. If even a fraction of what she is accused of would be true she actually would be in jail. You want to lay down the charges and we can litigate it together. What has she actually done to harm anyone that would stand in any court except for Governer Christie's (of New Jersey Bridge fame) kangaroo court. With Donald we don't need a congressional inquiry. Just record his rallies.
@ SCCRENDO.Ca.US (August 5, 2016)
<< "I will ban all Muslims" or his variation thereof. >>
You quote fragments, totally out of context. Trying to address this by adding "variation thereof" makes you a liar, not Trump.
<< His disgusting behavior towards the parents of the deceased military veteran did not suggest a change in attitude >>
Your terms are loose, your facts incomplete. Check them with "American Muslims for Trump". Your statement reflects worse on your scatter-brained intellectual process than on Trump.
<< "Building a wall to keep out all Mexican" because they are rspists etc. >>
Not "all Mexicans", just the illegal immigrants. Misquoting Trump, once again, makes you the liar, not Trump.
<< Building a wall that is actually unbuildsble does not encourage diversity. >>
That's your own speculation. Write a book on it, or something; it has nothing to do with Trump.
<< He is likely more tolerant of European illegals. It appears Melania working illegally in a B1 visa is ok. >>
Can you cite a source for that? You seem to take your own fantasies for facts. You may be the liar on this one as well.
<< " There was blood coming out of her eyes and wherever" >>
What does this have to do with anything pertinent to the subject matter of this discussion? You seem to be trying to attribute to Trump meanings and intents created by your own confused mind.
<< "Women who hsve abortions should go to jail" modified later to only their doctors. >>
Please elaborate on this. Abortion "rights" are in fact a killing license. It's understandable that many people are horrified by the realities evoked by such "rights". They are not even "reproductive rights", but anti-reproductive, if you try to be specific. At any rate, people who try to protect unborn life are not anti-women and there are many women among them. You are again attributing to Trump sins created by your own ethical and political confusion.