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Disappointed that people with reservations don't know their place in line.

Disappointed that people with reservations don't know their place in line.

Why do we, that have made our reservations on March 31, 2016, still not know where we are in the Model 3 line? Not a complaint, but a definite disappointment. Also, is it fair that current Tesla owners get unlimited time of first right of refusal to be put at the front of the line on Model 3 ordering? Seems to me that current Model S and X owners could've had the same opportunity to get on the list on their respective day of reservation, and still have been put to the head of the line of non-owners. Don't think it's fair they get unlimited access to front of the line offer, issuance and status? There should be and should've been a cutoff date for current owners, Tesla employees and Space-X employees to get in line. A much better system would've been to offer current owners and employees a pre-reservation time frame and cutoff date. Then, for the rest of us to have our opportunity to order after their cutoff date expired where current owners and employees could've still ordered but have been treated the same as the rest of us ordering...hindsight...

leonlamar | 15 Janvier 2017

Wrote above, don't need to comment on my own post.

akgolf | 15 Janvier 2017

I also reserved on day one and am not an owner. I don't have a problem not knowing my place in line, but knowing that it's behind the owners that helped finance my next car.

That being said, it's not as if an existing owner reserving today would jump ahead of either of us.

topher | 15 Janvier 2017

Because Tesla doesn't KNOW your place in line. It will depend on a number of things that they haven't resolved yet, such as how many cars will be needed until they feel assured about QA, in order to start shipping to further regions, and how the supply chain for parts is going.

"Don't think it's fair they get unlimited access to front of the line offer, issuance and status?"

Which is why they don't.

" employees a pre-reservation time frame "

Which they did. Employees were given access to the order process before the rest of us. There is no evidence that they get any further priority than that. If they did, there would have been no need to give them advanced access.

Thank you kindly.

Frank99 | 15 Janvier 2017

leon -
I don't think anyone know how the current owner priority is going to work. Tesla's statement on the matter (before the reveal) was:
"In order to be as fair as possible, there will be a different queue for each region. And as a thank you to our current owners, existing customers will get priority in each region" ( https://www.tesla.com/blog/reserving-model-3 )
And on the invitation to the reveal, "As a current owner who has supported Tesla and our mission, your reservation will take priority and be placed ahead of non-owners."

What that precisely means hasn't been made clear. To me, it means that everyone who owned, or had owned, a Tesla vehicle will get pushed to the front of the line in their region. It's not clear to me if that means someone who bought a Tesla after April 1 would get pushed to the front of the line (are they a "current owner"?). Frankly, there really aren't enough orders from owners to make a huge difference - it was 7% on the May 4 earnings call when there were roughly 360,000 reservations. That accounts for about 25,000 reservations - at one time, Tesla was planning to build 100,000 Model 3's this year.

I'm OK with even the most generous interpretation - anyone who has ever owned a Tesla prior to deliveries starting gets precedence. I'm expecting something a bit less - anyone who had ever owned a Tesla by April 1 would get precedence. Perhaps it's even more restrictive - anyone who currently owned a Tesla and made a reservation by April 1. Who the heck knows - I just want my car!

Frank99 | 15 Janvier 2017

E-
If you don't like the way they're treating you, feel free to request your deposit back and go find an automaker more to your liking.

akgolf | 15 Janvier 2017

E doesn't have a deposit.

chogless | 15 Janvier 2017

If I placed an order for a Ford 2017 in 2016 I believe they still send out congrats! you will be # umpty. Sooo, I am confused why Tesla has not fanned the excitement with similar letters, for each region. Understand not knowing delivery date. That is based on the actual first run
off the line. Those of us who have followed Tesla from the start know the first run is never on time.

KKNOTTS1 | 15 Janvier 2017

The order number seems like it would be helpful for figuring out the tax rebate (whether or not I would actually get it). I tried calling customer service today to get a feel for financing and wound up pretty confused. I didn't reserve until August, so I can't complain too much.
I would definitely like to play with configurations as well, once again for financing. It will probably take me a couple weeks to mull things over. Honestly, I just really want a new car but I can wait.

mntlvr23 | 15 Janvier 2017

@Rutrow -3 (at least)
Rebate - wrong (tax credit)
West Coast people will get all of the tax credits - wrong
Only the well-off people signed up right away - wrong

bmwgs | 15 Janvier 2017

Rutrow
flagged

Red Sage ca us | 15 Janvier 2017

God.

JeffreyR | 15 Janvier 2017

The order of when can place an order is based on our reservation date. Since I waited in line starting at 7am before the reveal I will be among the first hundred thousand to place an order. The regional queue may determine access to the Design Studio. It's the delivery date which we care about most, and even Elon himself does not know when that will be. The fact that I am not a current owner will put me behind some. The fact that I am not planning to order a Performance version will put me behind others. The good news is that I am early in line, in general, and live w/in a few miles of the Fremont factory. The best news of all will be that The Great Ramp Up is going well and Tesla will deliver tens of thousands of Model 3 sedans in the first year. Then most of us "early reservationists" will get ours by then.

lilbean | 15 Janvier 2017

A customer's place in line can change at any time. Just like reeler said, you can jump ahead if you are a current owner. Too many people would be upset if their place kept changing. I don't even think Tesla knows.

lilbean | 16 Janvier 2017

I just read Frank's post. You should too. :)

bmwgs | 16 Janvier 2017

EaglesPDX
Flagged yet again.

bj | 16 Janvier 2017

Tesla briefly (and inadvertently) let people know where they were in the global reservation queue based purely on reservation date and time, via some hidden HTML code in the MyTesla page. Once Electrek wrote an article on it, it was quickly removed.

Us Aussies had the lowest Reservation IDs because our stores opened first due to time zone. The Reservation ID also revealed approximately how many staff reservations had been made.

Tesla probably decided, quite rightly, that if people had an exact number, they would be inundated with complaints from customers wondering why person X with a reservation ID later than theirs got their car earlier. It would be endless righteous indignation from some people.

Sometimes more information just creates more problems and more overheads in dealing with complainants - money Tesla would prefer to spend building and delivering cars.

Nexxus | 16 Janvier 2017

First of all it was Elon's way of saying thank you to the previous owners, for buying a Model S or X, to move them up the reservation list. Second, there has been such an overwhelming response to the reveal, that they will be hounded by the press and the short sellers on when they will deliver all those reservations into sales. Then, if they miss those deliveries on time, the press and shorts will have a field day with that too. It's best not to reveal any numbers until they are actually delivering vehicles or configuring them.

dave.m.mcdonough | 16 Janvier 2017

I think you are being impatient. You'll know before this year is up.

topher | 16 Janvier 2017

"The order number seems like it would be helpful for figuring out the tax rebate"

Probably not helpful at all. Full tax credits could run out after 50,000 Model ≡s or after 450,000.

Since you reserved in August your reservation number is 6 digits and starts with a 4 (most likely).

Thank you kindly.

pavel | 16 Janvier 2017

I don't really understand what the fuss is about. We;'re waiting for the car to be produced. We can't speculate yet on how deliveries will work and what queues are gonna be generated. One thing's sure, If you live on the west coast you're bound to get a car before anyone that out east, and if you're an existing Tesla owner, you get priority - every business does it, it's called building a business relationship and showing appreciation to your existing client base. Nothing unfair there! Patience is a virtue.

dsvick | 16 Janvier 2017

@pavel - "One thing's sure, If you live on the west coast you're bound to get a car before anyone that out east"

No, that's not sure at all, in fact I'd venture to say that probably wont happen. Yes, deliveries will start in the West, close to the factory, but I highly doubt that they'll only fill reservations from the West before moving East. That would mean someone in CA could reserve today and get theirs before someone on the East coast that reserved on 31 March. Not going to happen.

akgolf | 16 Janvier 2017

Yeah yeah yeah, patience. How long will that take?

topher | 16 Janvier 2017

"but I highly doubt that they'll only fill reservations from the West before moving East."

Because that would be a horrible idea. Tesla needs to deliver cars to all regions of the country, and at some point they will be limited by available transport rather than by production. At that point, if they have made all their west coast deliveries, the east coast deliveries will take up more time for each of the transportation systems (trucks or whatever). This will require a greater investment in transportation, than if they quickly got up to speed on all regions. Delivering to all regions at once gives the lowest average transportation cost.

@akgolf: "I want to be trashing bozos in my Model 3"

akgolf | 16 Janvier 2017

:)

Badbot | 16 Janvier 2017

you are in front of me so I think you should stop pouting and ask for your $1k back.

pavel | 16 Janvier 2017

@dsvick - valid point. I'm glad it's not my job to figure out the order and Tesla will have to do that. I've just succumbed to the fact that I won't see my car for quite some time and well after first deliveries. I'm in no rush. Will give me more time to add more money to the down-payment :)

bmwgs | 16 Janvier 2017

I'm with pavel-no rush. And there are at least 3,yes 3,people behind me on this forum. If it arrives in Dec 2018 or Jan 2019 makes no difference.

Haggy | 16 Janvier 2017

If you've ever used Windows, you are familiar with progress bars. If you are doing something like a download, and your speed is somewhat steady, it might be useful. Likewise, if you are copying a file, it might also be useful to know how much has been copied, even though the read and write rates differ in different parts of the disk. But what about in other cases? Sometimes you try to install something and it jumps from 16 to 72% done, and stays that way for five minutes. If, after five minutes, it's still 72% done, then in theory nothing happened. But then you see the progress bar jump to 92%. So what have you learned? Not much, except the numbers increase randomly in a forward direction until they get to 100. The information itself isn't otherwise useful, because you have no idea why anybody decided that any given task constituted any given percentage of the installation, and nothing gives you any indication of what time it will finish.

The same would be true with telling you your position in line. Unless they tell you the position of the person in line whose car is being made each time they make another car, knowing yours won't be helpful. If you see the numbers going forward in your queue, you might decide to extrapolate and estimate when your car might come. But then the numbers might freeze because Tesla is making a batch that's going to a different area of the country or the world. Tesla might have no way of knowing how your position in the queue corresponds to anybody else's position in any other queue. They may try to keep up to speed based on order date, in which case things may or may not move at an even pace as they try to coordinate orders from different regions with different queues. Being number 24 in Iceland doesn't tell you much unless you know when they will make number one for Iceland and how many they will send at a time.

The bottom line is that if somebody tells you that yours is the 37,105 order in the Midwest queue, you still won't have any better of an idea when you will get your car.

bj | 16 Janvier 2017

@Haggy - spot on. I *do* know my number in the

bj | 16 Janvier 2017

I'll try that again... I *do* know my position in the queue because I captured my Reservation ID before Tesla removed it from the webpage. But it tells me nothing about when I'll get my car. I might as well not know it, because it makes no difference.

mntlvr23 | 16 Janvier 2017

@bj - and your information was seemingly important for the rest of us - as it gave us an idea where the numbers started. My ID was about where I would have guessed it would have been (relative to yours - yours in AUS and mine at 10am East Coast US). I would love for that number to mean more - because it is LOW LOW LOW !!

Hopefully we will all get a bit more information during the Q4 investor call and even more during the next Reveal - though everything will be subject to change, as necessary.

Frank99 | 16 Janvier 2017

E -
Name calling again? What's obvious to me is that Tesla doesn't owe me a damned thing more than what they promised to give me. My place in line was not one of those things.

Besides, moving full production up by two years kinda makes the whole question moot - unless you were one of the very first reservations, you'll be getting the car 1-2 years sooner than you would have based on the information available at the reveal. If you reserved late, your delivery is at the mercy of so many variables that trying to establish a date now is meaningless.

NOTE: If you tag E's message for deletion, please tag this one also. Thank you.

bmwgs | 16 Janvier 2017

EaglesPDX
flagged

bmwgs | 16 Janvier 2017

Frank99
flagged

Efontana | 17 Janvier 2017

It might be helpful to change your model of the line.

There are 30,000 affiliated employees and 120,000 owners, so 150,000 people are in the invisible line, most living in California.

The visible line starts after the invisible line.

Some of the 150,000 may leave the line, but not necessarily.

Tesla reserves the right to deliver in any order they desire.

makobill | 17 Janvier 2017

Being that we don't have a Tesla location in OK, I fully expect I'll be at the back of the line of their 'discretion'. Doesn't dampen my enthusiasm one bit, but I'm also not in a rush for a vehicle in 2017. Maybe quit your job and go to work for Tesla/Space X as a solution? If so, please check back with the group when you have the inside skinny on things. :)

matt | 17 Janvier 2017

Here is my point of view. I understand that Tesla wants to reward customer loyalty. I understand and have a greater appreciation that Tesla wants to reward their employees. Here is where I get the rub on the timing of my delivery. There is a tax credit at stake here so I have skin in the game to care how soon I take delivery. I do fine financially for myself but not so much that I would pass up the full tax credit. Now I waited in line in Chicago to do my best at getting an early reservation for a Model 3. Now someone who already had a Model S can jump in front my place in line doesn't seem completely fair to me. Tesla has every right to do what they want with the reservations though. I guess my really problem is how the tax credit was written up. To me there should have been a cap on the sticker price of the car and it should have been limited to one per person. That doesn't seem like Tesla's problem but it kind of is. The smaller that tax credit is the less likely I am to get a Model 3 right away. My current car is working fine. I might chose to wait a year or two to let all the bugs get shaken out of the Model 3. In that time I could decide to go with another manufacturer. That would mean a lost sell for Tesla. That would mean one less customer to be loyal to Tesla in the future. That is the rub for Tesla. I want to be a loyal Tesla customer but I have to buy one of their cars first. Honestly I don't care how soon I get my Model 3. I just want it to come with the full tax credit. I can't imagine that I'm the only one that feels this way.

dsvick | 17 Janvier 2017

If you waited in line there is every chance you'll get your car in time to receive the full credit. At one point Elon said he expected everyone that waited in line to have theirs by the end of 2017. Even if that slips and some don't get theirs until the first quarter of 2018 they should still qualify for the full credit.

pete3442 | 17 Janvier 2017

You are assuming that a *new* reservation from an existing owner would jump ahead of you in line. However, there is no evidence to suggest that is the case. It seems the general consensus is that owners will get bumped up the line, but not necessarily to the front. No one yet knows how they will batch deliveries, or what preference current owners will get. For now, I wouldn't get too worked up about the delivery schedule -- there is a lot more variability than what will be caused by the exact treatment of owners.

dsvick | 17 Janvier 2017

@Efontana - "There are 30,000 affiliated employees and 120,000 owners, so 150,000 people are in the invisible line, most living in California."

True, most of the employees are in CA so yes you could have as many as 30,000 people at the very front of the line - I think most of use expected that though. For prior owners though, at one point Elon said only about 7% of reservations were from prior owners so, if go with a high number of reservations like 600,000, that would be 43,000 prior owners of which, maybe half are in the US.

You're probably only looking at a little over 50,000 total. And there is nothing that says ALL of the prior owners will go before ALL of the non owners.

Rocky_H | 17 Janvier 2017

At various times there have been "priorities" announced.

Existing owners get priority.
Tesla and SpaceX employees get priority.
Early reservations get priority.
West to East is a priority.

So we have an issue. Everyone can't be #1, (although a Model 3 as a participation trophy would be SWEET!) They have to nest those overlapping priorities somehow. Have you ever seen one of those structures of an outline of a paper?

A.
1.
2.
a.
b.
B.
1.
C.

We don't know how they will be interspersing all of those various types of priority by groups and subgroups.

Rocky_H | 17 Janvier 2017

Aww, are you frickin' kidding me? Stupid blog software removed all of the extraneous spaces for indentation from my outline model.

JeffreyR | 17 Janvier 2017

@Rocky_H
Actually the browser did that as HTML does not honor white space (mostly, especially the case you tried). Where Mollom screwed you is that if you had done HTML (pre tags) to have the browser honor the white space, then Mollom would have stripped that!

Use the no-break space special character   next time.

   Like   this.

Coastal Cruiser. | 17 Janvier 2017

We are the few
the proud
the reservationists

we are pioneers
no one has ever done this before
in the history of mankind

the rules are vague
the goal is certain

there is a hill to be taken
we are the ones to do it
we lead... others follow
we don't squabble

we are focused
no hocus pocus

to have a reservation is to say
i am taking that hill
watch me

Frank99 | 17 Janvier 2017

"we don't squabble"

You must be new here.

(Yes, I know you're not, but still....)

Pretty cool, though.

Red Sage ca us | 17 Janvier 2017

matt: Isn't Illinois next door to Michigan? Imagine if you wanted a BOLT, but all the cars were being Delivered to the West coast first. It would really suck to wait months or years to get a car you know is built so closely to your home in Chicago. Conversely, imagine if you lived in San Diego. It would really suck if the Model 3 were being Delivered, to start, to Midwestern locations before you could get yours.

TeSLa Foe | 17 Janvier 2017

all current owners are the sole reason we can have the Model 3. Thank you to all Model S, Model X, and Roadster owners for your early commitment to the DREAM!!

Efontana | 17 Janvier 2017

The financial investment in Tesla by owners is two orders of magnitude higher than a depositor.

If someone says, "I would like one of the Model 3s," does it make sense to answer, "That will be 3 years"?

I think they have their place in line, forfeit never.

Coastal Cruiser. | 17 Janvier 2017

TeSLa Foe +1

btw... Are you any relation to jean lafoote?

en.wikipedia org/wiki/Jean_LaFoote

Haggy | 17 Janvier 2017

Tesla and SpaceX employees get priority.
Existing owners get priority.
Early reservations get priority.
West to East is a priority.

Employees go first. Then existing owners get them, presumably with the owners who made early reservations going first. It will be the owners with early reservations in California who get them before owners with early reservations in the next region over, etc.

There will be overlap. Tesla will not wait until owners in one region all get their cars before starting the next region. Once things are up to speed in one region, Tesla will start others. They aren't going to overstaff one region and ignore others. It might take some time to ramp up production, but once they are producing at an acceptable volume, they will have to send cars to as many regions as possible. Owners who ordered at a certain time, such as the first week or two, will likely get their cars before non-owners who ordered early. But that's only a few percent of orders, and Tesla won't wait until all owners get cars before they start on cars for non-owners. An owner who orders now might get priority over others who order now, but Tesla will come up with some reasonable way of batching things, and within a given batch, order things based on the criteria listed. If you want something more precise, you're not going to get it. Tesla doesn't know how many cars will roll out of the factory on the first week in production, or even when that will be.

Suffice to say that all other things being equal, the order above should give an indication of priority for starting queues, but the queues won't be done back to back. Tesla will try to maximize throughput and keep it as fair as possible. How they batch things will be unknown, buy hypothetically if they went by the month that cars were ordered, they'd do the employees, then owners, then everybody else who ordered that month, and if they are already delivering nationwide by that point, region might not make much of a difference, if any.

Regardless of any of that, since we don't know how many cars they will make per week or how many people are in each category, knowing any more detail still won't help.

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