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Model 3 Design Studio

Model 3 Design Studio

Busy day for Model 3 Reservation holders! Some excited, others not so much but Elon definitely got our attention.

I'm not going to worry about delivery dates until I find out what the Model 3 Design Studio looks like on Day 1. As a California Tesla owner, and pre-unveiling reservation holder, I expect to have early access to build my car. If so, I hope to see many options available to choose including AWD, EAP, FSD, Air Suspension, Premium package, etc. I understand/expect my estimated delivery date will change based on the selection(s) made. This is consistent with the current S and X Design Studios and what I experienced when I ordered my 85D. I do look forward to seeing a delivery date based on my build characteristics, even if it shows late 2017 (December) or early 2018 (January or February). Having said all that, I'd be pissed if the upgraded options could not be selected on Day 1!

But, I don't think I'll be disappointed.

akgolf | 24 mars 2017

It is what it is and I can live with it.

zp | 24 mars 2017

Even if it shows late 2017? You expect any version of the M3 to be available before late 2017? You may want to adjust your expectations, which is the point of Musks' tweets. He also said a year from now for the AWD, so your "January or February" optimism/demand is completely ignoring what he tweeted today and is also an optimistic delivery date for any version.

lilbean | 25 mars 2017

Simply Red is a cool guy and already has an awesome Model S. He has no need to adjust expectations. He's already driving an awesome car! :-)

AlMc | 25 mars 2017

Interesting question/topic.

I have NO idea what will be on the initial Design Page. I will be surprised, based on EM's tweets, if anyone gets AWD, HUD, or air suspension before Q2 2018.
I believe (opinion) we will see very basic $35-40K type model 3 only until late Q1, early Q2 2018. Why? The early basic 3s will be easier to make at volume and will carry very little profit. During this time people who want 'more'' will be shifting to the higher GM model S (or even some Xs). IF tesla comes out with 'loaded' 3s early on they potentially will affect the demand for Ss.

Once the ramp has been established then the higher GM 3s can be made and even if it causes some to go for the loaded 3s over an S the GM and volume will offset any loss of profit.

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

Based on the model3tracker.info page, which granted is a small sample (roughly 6.5k users) 28% want AWD. 29% want base battery. Not all those respondents are in the US, So say a quarter of those respondents are - that isn't a huge chunk that want the RWD configuration. Even fewer might want a true "base" stripper car. And that takes no consideration as to where they are in line or geographically. So maybe getting through it will be relatively quick.

sbeggs | 25 mars 2017

@KP,
Good points.

SoFlaModel3 | 25 mars 2017

At KP unless that was a typo, you just said 28% want AWD. That means 72% want RWD. Also the sample size is 1% of the reservations and most likely enthusiasts that don't represent the full population.

I have a strong feeling the masses want base when it comes to drive and battery and options elsewhere (paint, roof, radio, seats, etc.).

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

Sorry that was a typo. Only 28% want RWD.

I agree the sample size is small. But then again, polls use a much smaller sample size (and we see how those turned out recently.) LOL!

PhillyGal | 25 mars 2017

Interesting point, Red.
I too hope the design page - or at least a blog post - indicates the price points per D/P/size so that reservation holders can make an informed decision about which model to order, depending on time.

Here's a question though. How will the page (Tesla) already know when P/D should be available by at the exact moment 400,000 people log on to design their car? They won't know for a while how many people order RWD and thus won't know how to estimate when the D folks should expect a car.

Ahh, this is driving me nuts. I am so on the fence about what build I want. I just know I want it as soon as humanly possible.

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

I'm on the fence too, PG. I want it ASAP, but I also have never had a RWD car. And having driven RWD teslas as loaners, I do think I like the handling better with the D. I know it will be fine in snow but I've never had snow tires and don't have a place t store them (side note: what to people do if they can't store them? Just forget it altogether?) and we have our 70D for instances we'd need it. I pretty much don't drive even with our D in snowy weather. I just stay home or let hubby do it lol. (FL girl transplanted to NE here. ;) )

Plus it's cheaper. Plus it would ensure full tax credit. I go back and forth. I'm going to see what the options are and how much they cost. If AWD puts me over my husbands imposed max price (and I can't sweet talk him haha) then maybe I will forego it.

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

Should also add: every car I've had or my husband has had since I moved to New England 20 years ago has been AWD.

Woodsonpd | 25 mars 2017

KP the model3info site may say 72% want AWD, but that's only true for the people excited enough to search out an enthusiast website and fill out what they want. There's a huge bias there. I'd also suspect that 72% would say the want it, but in the end many won't get it. Based off of nothing but my own assumptions I'll be surprised if 50% of reservation holders get AWD, and more like 33%.

PhillyGal | 25 mars 2017

Hmm, for me I've never had AWD.
Our S85 would have been AWD had it not required us to wait 3 MORE months than we had already waited. (Aug order, Oct D announcement, Dec delivery for ours or a P85D... S85D wait until March.)

I wanted AWD in case of performance gains like the S85D did via software update months after it was delivered and to diversify our fleet a little but I honestly don't think I'll wait for it. I count every year and snow truly impacts my commute about 6 days a year where I live.

4fishtankz | 25 mars 2017

Live in CA so don't need AWD, a bigger battery pack though would be nice, but would have to see how much longer I'd have to wait for it. The closer we get the more the anticipation is killing me :)

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

As I said before, I know it is a small sample. And I wasn't trying to say that it definitively meant the percentages were accurate.

SoFlaModel3 | 25 mars 2017

Makes sense that you had a typo.

I still wouldn't place stock in a sample size of 1% that is skewed toward enthusiasts though.

jefjes | 25 mars 2017

What is offered and at what price in the original Design studio will be a big determining factor as to the number of order percentages in this priced range of car. Whole different demographic than the MS/X models. When people have to start deciding between things on an options list like paint color, sun roof, AWD, battery size, etc. but can't afford everything, the priorities become more important. Many people that can afford the higher end models will just get everything they want (if available) in the M3 because they can. The rest of us will have to make some tough decisions based on budget constraints, how long we will have to live with those choices, etc.. It will be interesting to see what the original reservationist end up getting.

Lonestar10_1999 | 25 mars 2017

As a Pennsylvania resident, I need to consider harsh winter commuting. I have never owned an AWD but front wheel drive has always been adequate for me. I am not interested in adding options to the M3, but rear wheel drive just won't cut it. I'll have to wait for the AWD option to become available and hopefully it won't be a budget buster.

SoFlaModel3 | 25 mars 2017

I just flew to Canada and sat next to a guy with a BMW M3. He said his car did just fine in the snow/harsh conditions. Now granted his car is a stick and that offers a bit more control.

Either way (and take this with a grain of salt since I am in Florida), I think the need for AWD is overblown.

Isn't a RWD + snow tires absolutely fine?

bmalloy0 | 25 mars 2017

Ever get the feeling like you're the only one who wants Dual Motors for the (albeit slight) range boost? I probably won't be able to afford a larger battery, so Dual Motors would be the only way to squeeze as much range out of the car as I could.

KP in NPT | 25 mars 2017

@lonestar - RWD teslas are not the same as ICE. ICE has the weight in the front due to the engine, whereas Tesla weight is evenly distributed because of the skateboard battery. Plenty of RWD teslas in snowy climes (like, Norway) and they handle the snow great, according to their reports.

Many owners here have RWD teslas because they bought before the D came out. They have all said they are good in snow.

jman | 25 mars 2017

I think we are all missing one big piece here. The Space X and Tesla employees will be getting their vehicles before any of us. THAT means they will need to have access to the design studio well before delivery. They might have access right now for all we know. They have good poker faces anyway !!! If they are to get their cars around July/Aug they should be designing them pretty damn soon, only 3-4 months until delivery............

Bluesday Afternoon | 25 mars 2017

So far Tesla has not formally reached out to the 400,000+++ reservationists. They have no concrete, company generated data telling them what people want. At least, I've not received a Tesla preorder questionnaire. Let us know if you have! We've seen tidbits of enthusiast info that may, or may not, have value to Tesla. So the opening of the Design Studio will be a big event not only for us but also for the company.

If you've used or played around with the Design Studio for any length of time you know it's not a set-in-stone configurator. We've seen color changes, seat design changes (I lucked out on Next Gen rear seats for my non P 85D which was only available a couple of months and then discontinued), Dual Motors added (AWD pushed me to order), packaging changes, etc. I fully understand the studio will continue to change over time. I simply want to have a better clue on delivery dates based on how I build my car.

It may be frustrating to see your delivery date pushed back due to a certain option but there is an advantage, occasionally. While others are receiving their cars you may luck out and get an unexpected surprise. Like they say, "Those who wait get AWD." ;-)

bryan.whitton | 25 mars 2017

I guess that there are not many of us that want AWD for the range boost. I don't drive in any inclement weather, I stay off the road unless absolutely required for heavy rainstorms. If the ground turns white, I am too far north and need to go home. What I am interested in is AWD for the extra few percent or range. When I retire in a few years (3 Yrs, 9 mos, 9 days but whose counting) I will be driving long distances on a regular basis. I would like the extra boost simply for higher cruise speeds or SC skipping. I guess I am in the minority. BTW, I will be getting the largest battery available. I want fast charge speeds for these long drives I have planned.

Azred50 | 25 mars 2017

It isn't surprising to see people create fancy spreadsheets to predict various aspects of the Model 3 rollout. However, garbage in, garbage out is my opinion of them. Oddly, it is apparent from many posts on the other forum that quite a few people actually believe the data spit out, including the delivery timeframes projected.

Bluesday Afternoon | 25 mars 2017

@bryan.whitton

"If the ground turns white, I am too far north and need to go home." 8-)

PhillyGal | 25 mars 2017

@Lonestar10_1999 - You can't compare a RWD Tesla to any other RWD car.

Our RWD Model S is DEFINITIVELY better than any FWD car I've owned in the snow.

Reasons:
Battery is heavy, low center of gravity
Weight is more evenly distributed
No transmission = instant corrections when traction control kicks in (the opposite of when you stub your toe and it takes a second to hurt.)

AlMc | 25 mars 2017

Weekend musings after the recent EM model 3 tweet storm:

Now that EM has let us all in on some model 3 news we are all trying to read the tea leaves on what the model 3 Configuration Page and the model 3 itself will be like at launch.

What we know (or I think we know) now to be priorities at launch.
1. Have a base price vehicle be what EM said it would be: base of $35k
2. Have it be easy to make, thus easy to ramp (learned from model X ramp issues)
3. Similar to #2: Don't offer everything that will eventually be available at launch (again, learned from model X where too much was offered
from the beginning.
4. Make sure there is a clear delineation between the S and the '3', at least at launch.

Given the above what will the configuration page look initially?

1. Very few options:
a. paint: one standard (white) and 3 metallic (upgrade)
b. interior: Two seat colors: black or tan (leatherette standard); leather (upgrade)
c. battery: two choices standard 55; upgrade 75
2. No HUD
3. Probably NO mention of AWD. If they do have it on the Config Page they indicate it is available in mid 2018

Simplifying the design page/choices simplifies the production process and if people want 'S amenities' they buy an S. The early model 3s will have negative (or very low) margins and the ramp has to be fast to take advantage of the 60-90 day supplier bills. In addition, keeping the S and 3 very different will push some people that don't want to wait till 2018 for an AWD 3 into an S (or X). Selling as many higher margin Ss during the ramp is going to help overall GMs.

Moving forward. Once they have gauged demand and had a successful ramp it is time to put the HUD and interior upgrades into the S and X. I think early 2018 (late 2017 if demand for S seems to be a problem). Then later in 2018, maybe even when they open up AWD 3s, the HUD shows up on the 3 design page. At this point the margins should be very good with faster production rates and high margin upgrades

akgolf | 25 mars 2017

I lived in Alaska for 28 years and only had one vehicle with AWD. The others were FWD and with snow tires I never had any issues. Reading comments from Model S owners with RWD, it seems that RWD Tesla's perform better than similar FWD cars. I would think the Model 3 would perform well also.

Lonestar10_1999 | 25 mars 2017

My apprehension with RWD cars in wintry weather is based on my experience growing up on Long Island, NY in the 1970s. As an irresponsible teenager, fishtailing the family Chevelle with my buddies was a lot of fun. But now as a grown-up, I would hate to lose control of the M3 and cause an accident due to unwanted fishtailing. It would be great if the M3 with RWD could be fully reviewed by a trusted source such as Edmunds, and handling on wintry roads evaluated.

PhillyGal | 25 mars 2017

@Lonestar - I feel you. My RWD Hyundai Genesis Coupe will fishtail at 5mph in 1" of snow. No matter how carefully I try to drive that car, it just can't. So now I don't even bother trying to drive it. Fortunately, my better half has flexibility with working from home so if I can't hitch a ride with a truck-driving colleague, I take the Model S to work on snow days.

I'm no Edmunds but my best example is when I accelerated down a hill in slick conditions and the MS corrected itself before I even realized I had slipped. Amazing is an understatement. I feel very safe.

The downside is the irresponsible teen in a Chevelle who slides into your precious new Tesla by no fault of your own - AWD or otherwise.

PhillyGal | 25 mars 2017

(and yes, I know Chevelles haven't been made in a long time...)

akgolf | 25 mars 2017

@ PhillyGal - I had a 1969 Chevelle 396 with cowl induction. Wasn't the most reliable car, but fun to drive.

SamO | 25 mars 2017

I live in a warm climate and have the RWD configuration. I've driven in the WORST conditions in the world. Sheet ice 1/2 a foot thick in Minnesota. Blizzard conditions coming down the Eisenhower/Johnson tunnel. Jackknifed big rigs blown over in high winds in South Dakota.

Tesla Model S is the best non-AWD vehicle I've ever driven. Not by a little. By a lot.

I have driven the Model S AWD and it is the best road holding vehicle I've driven.

Caveat emptor

Fast Girl | 25 mars 2017

First posting here as I am considering a model 3 or S. Know not a lot about cars, so coming here to learn. Thus, I see a lot a unusual acronyms, Is there a place where these are listed? Otherwise I will be lost. tnx

Carl Thompson | 25 mars 2017

@Fast Girl

Here are some:
kWh: kilowatt-hours (How battery size is measured. Higher numbers can go farther on a charge.)
M3: What lazy people here call the Model 3. (Also there is a BMW M3)
T3: What Eagles calls the Model 3
S60: Model S 60 (60kWh battery)
AWD: All Wheel Drive
FWD: Front Wheel Drive
RWD: Rear Wheel Drive
RHD: Right Hand Drive (steering wheel on right for areas where they drive on the wrong side of the road)

Frank99 | 25 mars 2017

Fast Girl -
There are quite a few, aren't there?
ICE - Internal Combustion Engine, or a car with one. Almost every car/truck on the road today that has to fill up with gas or diesel is an ICE.
EV - Electric Vehicle
BEV - Battery powered EV, like a Tesla
HEV - Hybrid EV - like a Prius, sometimes driven by the small battery, but has a small gas engine to extend range.
PHEV - Plug-in HEV. Let's you charge your HEV battery at home rather than using the gas engine.

RWD - Rear Wheel drive. Old Detroit cars and single-motor Tesla's supply power to the two rear wheels.
FWD - Front Wheel drive. Most small cars these days provide power to the two front wheels.
AWD - All Wheel drive. Synonymous with Four Wheel Drive, for a Tesla it means having two electric motors, one to drive the rear two wheels and one to drive the front two wheels. Great for slippery conditions.

And then there's all the charging acronyms.

Frank99 | 25 mars 2017

aw, man, ninja'ed by Carl.

Bluesday Afternoon | 25 mars 2017

@Fast Girl

Ask any question you have about either car.

Go to the Model S Design Studio and experiment to see the various options and enjoy the research.

Carl Thompson | 25 mars 2017

Bigger version of acronym list (thanks Frank99!):

M3: What lazy people here call the Model 3. (Also there is a BMW M3)
MS: What lazy people here call the Model S
MX: What lazy people here call the Model X
MY: What lazy people here call the upcoming Model Y
T3: What Eagles calls the Model 3
kWh: kilowatt-hours (How battery size is measured. Higher numbers can go farther on a charge.)
S60: Model S 60 (60kWh battery)
- Append 'D' for Dual motor (All wheel drive)
- Prepend 'P' instead of 'S' for performance version
- Examples: S40, S70, S75, P85, P85D, S90D, P100D
AWD: All Wheel Drive (same as 4 wheel drive) (Tesla does this with 2 motors)
FWD: Front Wheel Drive
RWD: Rear Wheel Drive
RHD: Right Hand Drive (steering wheel on right for areas where they drive on the wrong side of road)
HUD: Heads Up Display: Information projected on windshield so you can see it while driving
EM: Elon Musk (Head of Tesla)
ICE: Internal Combustion Engine (What regular non-electric cars use)
EV: Electric Vehicle (I gues this includes hybrids?)
BEV: Battery Electric Vehicle (electric motor drives wheels powered by a battery)
HEV: Hybrid Electric Vehicle (cannot be plugged in to charge battery)
PHEV: Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle (can be plugged in to charge battery)

Carl

bj | 25 mars 2017

@Fast Girl - welcome to the Forum :)

There is no acronym list here. The forum software here is pretty basic and doesn't allow many of the features people normally expect, such as the ability to delete posts that you make or "sticky" threads that stay at the top regardless of when the last post was (where one would put something like an acronym list).

So I'll do my best:

EM = Elon Musk, Tesla CEO
AWD = All Wheel Drive. Two electric motors, one driving the front wheels and one driving the rear.
RWD = Rear wheel drive. One motor driving rear wheels
FWD = Front wheel drive. One motor driving front wheels.
HUD = Heads-up Display. Vehicle information such as speed projected onto the windscreen in driver's line of sight
ICE = Internal Combustion Engine. Last century's technology
LOL = laugh out loud. OK I'll stop there...

bj | 25 mars 2017

Ah ninja'd by Carl...

bj | 25 mars 2017

... and everyone else. Their lists are better!

topher | 25 mars 2017

LHD = Left Hand Drive
RHD = Right Hand Drive
SC = SuperCharger
and irritatingly,
FWD = Falcon Wing Doors (as on the Model X) usually differentiable from Front Wheel Drive by context.

Thank you kindly

eandmjep | 25 mars 2017

Before discontinuing the white seat option last fall if you selected it your MS delivery would be March of 2017. I believe the AWD versions will be the same in order to gauge the scope of the production needs.

JeffreyR | 25 mars 2017

You only need to know one new acronym (ninjas beware):

O.M.C.

OWNER'S MANUAL COMPANION / FAQ

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/owners-manual-companion-faq

From inside the OMC:
"List of often used abbreviations and acronyms"
https://teslatap.com/?s=abbreviations

How's that for ninjaed? BTW - that list is pages long, and our own TeslaTap keeps it up-to-date and fresh.

denkav2 | 25 mars 2017

@Fast Girl

As a new contributor, you will also need to know "Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a disinformation strategy used in sales, marketing, public relations, talk radio, politics, religious organizations, and propaganda."

This is what the contributor "EaglesPDX" gets up to most of the time. It's best to ignore him.

brando | 26 mars 2017

D is for ...

Disliked acronyms and abbreviations, then I realized helped me spot hubris or the really special people,
just ask them.

EaglesPDX | 26 mars 2017

"If so, I hope to see many options available to choose including AWD, EAP, FSD, Air Suspension, Premium package, etc."

Yeah...that's not going to happen. At the Q4 conference call Musk stated clearly that many of the options on the TS and TX will not be on the T3.

AWD is not on the initial models being made in 2017. And that's almost a prerequisite as 70% of Tesla sales are AWD. The RWD aspect might impact sales more than Musk's thinks with people holding off until AT LEAST AWD is offered.

SoFlaModel3 | 26 mars 2017

Eagles you are comparing a car that averages to sell for more than twice what the Model 3 is expected to average out to.

You cannot make conclusions on option selections as the buyers of these vehicles are very different.