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Canadian model S tour

Canadian model S tour

The Canadian model S tour starts tomorrow in Ottawa. Next week it will be in Laval where I can finally see it "live". I think TM will receive more Canadian orders if they release the Canadian pricing. I hope that my fellow Canadians will post any news/information that they get from TM reps. on the Canadian tour.

Vawlkus | 9 mai 2012

Oh I hope that thing makes a stop here on the East coast. I really wanna see a Tesla with my own eyes once this year. -.-

stephen.kamichik | 9 mai 2012

Ottawa and Laval are as far east as the tour goes. See EVENTS on this website.

toto_48313 | 9 mai 2012

I'll be in Laval next week too. And make sure to report anything that as not been report yet...if any.

stephen.kamichik | 9 mai 2012

We must all report new information on the model S.

alexandre.cesar | 9 mai 2012

I'll be in Laval next week.. most likely on Satruday. Hopefully we'll get to go inside the car if we tell them we are reservation holders.

@Stephen, I agree they really need to release the canadian pricing. With current exchange rates beeing almost 1:1 for the last 3 years and no custom duties because of NAFTA I hope Telsa prices out the car very very close to the US pricing.

Alex
P# 256 (CAN)

stephen.kamichik | 9 mai 2012

I agree with you on the exchange issue. I am P157.

cathy | 10 mai 2012

I was fortunate to see and ride in Model S in California at the Open House in September. I'm looking forward to seeing the changes when the tour comes to Sherway Gardens on May 23rd.
Has anyone heard how our reservation numbers will be integrated with the US reservations as they begin production?
Also, how will they know which of us wants which size of battery? I understand that the largest battery cars will be produced first. It seems that will change the order of delivery substantially.

Catherine
P#113 (CAN)

BYT | 10 mai 2012

Hello Catherine,

The last I heard the 300 Mile Battery Pack is first to drop and since all the Signature cars come with that pack, there is no need for any others until the productions model numbers start. It's expected sometime in the Fall for 230 Pack and Winter for the 160.

I have no idea how international orders will work as I'm in California, but they will offer you the packs available at the time of your order finalization I am sure and you can defer your order to later if the smaller pack you want isn't available.

Did I get that right gentlemen?

pbrulott | 11 mai 2012

Tesla Motors, you made my day yesterday when I received the email. I will finally get to see it live.

I'm going to be at Carrefour Laval on Wednesday evening for sure. I already invited the wife, kids and some friends. See you there Montreal Tesal enthusiasts!

I'm being realistic for my P#179 TMS 230 delivery date. I expect the config email to come around December '12 and delivery around end of Q1 '13. When I reserved mine (around August '11), US production was around 4,600. I expect to be behind a thousand US Sig + one hundred Can Sig + 4,600 US prod. So assuming they follow that order (with a few plusses and minuses due to battery pack and geography), P179 will likely be into the new year.

The one and only deal breaker question (other than Can pricing obviously) I have is how will I be able to maintain my TMS. I'm not asking for a store but just one repair facility in Montreal.

jerry3 | 11 mai 2012

At the very least I'd think there will be a Ranger stationed in Montreal. I understand that most of the service can be done over WiFi and you shouldn't (assuming quality control is as expected) be needing any physical service for about a year.

pbrulott | 11 mai 2012

Thanks Jerry3, you are right, part of the EV benefit should be less/no maintenance. I read in this forum that Tesla has a once a year maintenance for the Roadster at the cost of around $600 however that is if you don't have the pay the ranger mileage. And that Model S would require something similar.

pbrulott | 11 mai 2012

@ Valkus

don't despair. I believe it is a matter of time. The last Canadian event was in Toronto and now you see, we have Ottawa, Laval. The fooptrint is getting bigger. They should go east at some point.

jerry3 | 11 mai 2012

As a former Vancouverite all the places you mentioned are east.

Brian H | 11 mai 2012

jerry;
Yep; from here, even Calgary is the Near East, as opposed to the Far Deep Dark East. >;)

keithz | 12 mai 2012

Just visited the tour here in Ottawa.

Got lots of questions answered.

They still don't have info on financing though.

And maybe it's because it's a Beta, but the interior seems a little bland to me. I'm going to go back tomorrow and take a look again.

keithz | 12 mai 2012

One surprising observation from the sales rep was that the car only loses 2-3% range in winter. I don't buy this at all. Does anybody have any idea on how much range is reduced in winter?

stephen.kamichik | 12 mai 2012

The Mitsubishi IMIEV loses half its range at -25 degrees Celsius. The model S may do slightly better. TM said that once the batteries are warmed up, the range is not significantly reduced in winter.

keithz | 12 mai 2012

@Stephen

That's what the salesmen said. There was that CBC report on EVs and they quoted a MiEV saying he gets a lot less:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2011/12/22/mb-electric-car-...

A third! That's not good. I'm hoping Tesla is better. But I'd like some data from them. When the car is cold-soaked outside, what's the range loss? That's my question. So if you have to park the car in a mall parking lot for a few hours, what's the loss of range?

Teoatawki | 12 mai 2012

the owner's late winter report said it wasn't that bad.

In the Tesla, the battery pack temperature should come up fairly quickly, and once the pack has come up to operating temperature, shouldn't need to expend much energy heating it because just using it generates heat.

ddruz | 12 mai 2012

It may not be the battery pack temperature that is the primary energy drain. It is very possibly the heater to keep the cabin at a reasonable temperature. Climate control takes a lot of juice.

stephen.kamichik | 12 mai 2012

Also the friction of tires going through snow.

jerry3 | 12 mai 2012

Typically cars lose about 25% of their range (all cars, not just EVs) at 0 F (-18 C). This will be worse if you have to plough through snow but most winter on-road driving is done on packed snow or dry pavement. Colder temperatures reduce range even more. How much an EV loses depends on the temperature maintenance of the battery. If the battery isn't kept warm it will lose a lot more range. I believe that the Leaf has an insulation pack to keep the battery warm in cold weather. The Tesla has a liquid temperature management system so it might do much better.

jkirkebo | 14 mai 2012

Battery temperature and heating is not all. We also have to factor in air density. Air can easily be more than 10% denser in winter than in summer because of the temperature. This will impact range more at higher speeds, while heater use impacts range more at lower speeds.

pbrulott | 14 mai 2012

@ keithz,

were you able to get into the car to look at the interior by sitting in?

WattTheHell | 14 mai 2012

I went to see Beta #44 in Ottawa.

Exterior looks very nice. Inside? Well it's clearly a Beta.

They mentioned that canadian prices will be made available in July...
I really hope canadian prices will be very close to ones in US.

keithz | 16 mai 2012

@pbrulott

Yes. They had the car open. I sat in it.

@WattTheHell

Any idea how much the production standard has changed from the Beta?

I gotta say...for a car with an average selling price around the $80 000 mark with the profit margins that Tesla is claiming, it really hurts their brand to cheap out on the interior like that. I hope the production models are better.

I've sincerely considered putting down for a reservation. But after seeing the interior, I've decided I'll wait.

foto | 16 mai 2012

@keithz, what profit margin is Tesla forecasting for the Model S?

Volker.Berlin | 16 mai 2012

bfadewole, you're suggesting that Tesla has to make some compromises to achieve their industry-leading 25% announced profit margin. I don't think it'll work that way.

I like to believe that the profit comes from the fact that Tesla does things different than other companies in the same industry. They do it the Silicon Valley way. Much leaner, more flexible, more focused. More automation, less jobs in total and a greater percentage of highly qualified jobs. A whole different approach. If it wasn't for this difference, how would you explain that Tesla was able to develop a car that none of the established players was able (I concede: or willing) to develop, at a budget at which none of the established players could have developed *any* car (let alone a revolutionary one like the Model S)?

The other way around, if Tesla doesn't perform on the interior, the Model S won't sell in its proclaimed target market. Which is not just a small slip or a blooper. If the Model S fails, Tesla fails, that's it. Over and out. They know it and therefore they will get it right. They just focused on the really hard things first.

When I mentioned the same concern to a Tesla representative (Stephen Davies, EU Inside Sales Manager), the answer was clear: "We are not targeting the 5-series, A6, E-class build quality. We want to do better than that. We want to come close the the 7-series, A8, S-class kind of build quality." Tesla has never been shy with announcements, but up to date they have delivered on almost all of them ("almost": The announced release date for the Model S slipped by about a year, but that occurred early on so only few people noticed/remember).

foto | 16 mai 2012

@Volker, I always love your logical responses but I was just asking a question to which I did not truly know the answer. I believe you meant to respond to Keithz.....

Volker.Berlin | 16 mai 2012

bfadewole, assuming that you knew the answer, your question looked like a statement to me. The answer to your question has been given by Elon Musk himself:

"I am highly confident that we will deliver at least 20,000 cars next year, and I am highly confident that we will have a gross margin of at least 25%, and — I mean, the emphasis on at least. I think we will do better than those numbers. So, I want to be very clear about that." (Elon Musk, 17-Jan-2012)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2012/01/17/tesla-musk-sees-20k-mo...

keithz | 16 mai 2012

@Volker.Berlin

I've seen that answer before too. If it's true, they've got a long way to go. The price of this vehicle, decently spec'd approaches that of a higher end BMW 5, if you don't take the tax grant into account (which is not available everywhere).

It wasn't just the fit and finish. Design was a little bland for my taste. Then again, I drive a 2003 Lexus IS. So maybe I'm not the target market!

In any event, if they don't up their game, they aren't getting past the first adopter market. There's a limited pool of folks who can plunk down $60-$80 000 for a car. And for these people, a car is as much a status symbol as it is a form of transportation. Moreover, they couldn't care less about gas prices (since the car payments are higher), so the all-electric factor is more about status than saving money (which is a nice side-benefit). As it stands, from what I saw of the interior, it was probably on par with my 2003 Lexus IS (except for the touchscreen). If they are going to convince more than geeks to drop $80k on a car, they better make it look like an $80k car. For us normals, I'd rather not be laughed at by friends and family when I tell them I dropped $70k on a car, if the interior looks like that of high end Toyota.

The tech package smacks of nickel and diming, when you consider the cost of the car. Should they really be charging for xenon headlamps, keyless entry and electrochromatic mirrors? On a car with a base of nearly 60k? And there's no options for the really new up and coming stuff like a windscreen HUD, lane departure warning, lane change assist, etc. These are features I would expect from a car company with its roots in silicon valley. And if you're really trying to beat gas vehicles, you can't do it by nickel and diming the customer. The EV experience has to be better across the board.

The Model S is still on my list to be sure. But I do wonder how far they'll get with the muggles with what's on offer now.

toto_48313 | 16 mai 2012

Went to Carrefour Laval today:

The car is Vin # 44

Model S Signature Series

Signature Red Paint Color

Black Signature Nappa Leather Interior

Lacewood Decor

The car is located close to Baton Rouge restaurant
They even have French speaking representative, and French documentation

You can seat in the car, play with the central console etc...

They seems to have a suspension problem so the car is in the higher position, but this is just a detail.

According to the representative, the price for Canada should be available end of July (and expected to be "fair" compare to US). The car is currently in process to be certified for Canada, and they expect to be completed by September in order to start delivery in Canada early october. (Which is still sooner that I was expeted)

They made clear that 85 Kwh pack will be delivered prior to lower ones.

Interior detail: the A , B and C pillard coverage will be as the roof (tan) whatever the interior color you choose.

I'll go there again later this week and may ask any other question for Canada if you have any.

Ohms.Law | 16 mai 2012

@VB: Your analysis of the target market TM is going after, and the consequences if they miss it by a considerable margin, are "spot on". Or at least I think that's what our friends in the UK might say.

Ohms.Law | 16 mai 2012

Make that: IS spot on.

stephen.kamichik | 16 mai 2012

I went to see the model S at Carrefour Laval. I was told the Canadian pricing should be out in 7-10 days (after I mention July). I was told that the Canadian price starts at about $60k and includes leather. I then asked if it would be $65k-$70k? he said no, $60k.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but my wife and I both love the interior and of course the exterior. My wife said that you have to see it "live", that it is not nearly as nice on the computer screen.

As the Terminator said, "I shall be back" (to see the model S).

foto | 17 mai 2012

@keithz, I support your last comment and disagree slightly with Volker's.

First of all, I don't know Tesla's ROI goals, but I do think that it would serve them to competitively price the Model S in accordance to the quality, performance and not necessarily rape early adopters (after all, it should be a win-win). The report that Volker referred me to seems to be targeted to investors and hence it seems logical to assume that Elon is trying to please investors rather than the Model S users by trying to maintain some profit level. I am not asking Tesla to produce this car free or at zero margin but the cost should be relative to the overall quality. I currently drive a Mercedes CLS 550 (E-Class interior quality). I and a lot of others would expect to have such quality in an $80k+ car. Bottomline: the overall quality (exterior, interior, performance) needs to be high.
While initial adopters like myself might still get the car no matter what, we also plan to show off the car and its qualities to friends, families, colleagues, acquaintances etc after all, that's what you do with an $80,000 car. We see it as an electronic car gadget.

All that being said, I do believe that Tesla will not disappoint us. This is evident in what I see in the Roadster.

pbrulott | 18 mai 2012

@ Stephen and other Tesla fan boys from Montreal/GMA

I was at Carrefour Laval the 17th (last night) and talked with Ely (not sure of the spelling).

He mentioned the $60K which was a bit of a deception for me BUT if it includes leather then the gap becomes smaller with the $57,400 USD. again Tesla, Can$ is at par these days anyway.

Second thing I asked is if there was going to be a repair/maintenance facility in Montreal. And he said that they are looking for local and a September opening around the north of MTL or Laval area.

Suspension was high right but the rep said that it was at highest settings of the adjustable supension...

fun to see it live finally!

stephen.kamichik | 18 mai 2012

The TM rep. reiterated what Elon said, that the fit and materials on the production cars will be BMW 5 series equivalent. The prototype is 90% final.

clea | 18 mai 2012

the $60K is just a guesstimate as i heard the same thing but when pressed about knowing some info before the release of the canadian pricing and they admitted that it was just a rounded ballpark figure they are using until official numbers come out.

pbrulott | 22 mai 2012

Hey Canada, wake up! no updates since March 3rd... Given the latest Canadian tour, I would hope that we have more reservations than 285 production.

HaroldS | 26 mai 2012

There's something I don't understand about the Canadian process. From an earlier post it seems that VIN #44 is the car being shown around Canada. Now, in my contacts with Tesla they insist that they are going to make separate versions for the two markets. If VIN #44 can be driven on Canadian roads wouldn't that indicate that the car already meets the Canadian requirements?

Actually, from a production standpoint that seems the way it should be, since the requirements in the two countries are only trivially different. In addition, there are no mutually exclusive requirements, so it would seem very uneconomical to produce two versions when a single version could satisfy both sets of standards easily.

The only business reason I can see for creating incompatible versions would be to block importation of U.S. cars into Canada. Following that reasoning, the only benefit to Tesla from doing so would be to protect an exorbitant price structure in Canada (just like other U.S. manufacturers).

Now, there are costs (fees, duties, etc.) for doing business in Canada, but a private importation pays equivalent costs. I speak from experience, since our last two cars were imported from the States, at a net savings of almost $10K in one case.

If the Canadian pricing is equivalent to the final cost of a U.S. imported car then Tesla would be dealing fairly with us. But then, back to the earlier question, if there is no additional profit to them the why in the world would they go through the additional costs to produce two incompatible versions?

jerry3 | 26 mai 2012

- If VIN #44 can be driven on Canadian roads wouldn't that indicate that the car already meets the Canadian requirements?

Not any more than if you took your current car on a vacation up there.

- since the requirements in the two countries are only trivially different

Unfortunately, trivial differences tend to cost--especially when government is involved.

- The only business reason I can see for creating incompatible versions would be to block importation of U.S. cars into Canada.

That is what the Canadian government wants. (Not that the U.S. government is any better about car imports)

- if there is no additional profit to them the why in the world would they go through the additional costs to produce two incompatible versions?

There is a difference between a private importation and a car manufacturer importation. If you followed the "maple leaf on products made in Canada" you'd see how even the placement of the maple leaf (on a tire, for example) becomes political. The politicians really believe that the consumers care about that.