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Electronics Issues this morning w my Model S

Electronics Issues this morning w my Model S

I left my Model S on the street overnight last night on the dead end street where I live w about 200 miles of charge (though I know folks are told to leave their cars plugged in whenever possible). The temperature dipped down to about 43 degrees.

This morning I hopped into the car to run to a favorite coffee shop and immediately could see bunches of little issues with the computer system:
1) When putting the car in reverse, the rear camera would not automatically show on the display
2) I could not tune to any FM radio station (or get any audio to come from it whether in HD radio or not)
3) Blue tooth streaming of audio played with excessive choppiness if at all
4) No SFX on turn blinkers or hazard lights
5) My location on Google Maps could not keep up with my true location w/o being stopped and pressing to center the location of my car in the middle of the map
6) Unable to adjust the air suspension (it is greyed regardless of being in park or not, with brakes supressed or not).

I turned the power to the car completely off and back on again and cycled through the problems listed above that still persisted. I returned home and parked the car in the garage and plugged it in to my 240V plug there.

I hope the problems disappear when I check the car later on today -- but I'm a bit concerned.

Has anyone else experiences any issues like this or have any information about diagnosis or treatment before I call up Tesla (or anyone from Tesla reading this and know anything?).

David

dirk.saenen | 5 janvier 2013

"PC LOAD LETTER", right yeah.

reminds me of an error on an early servo-drive showing :
ERROR 06.
The help-file stated : ERROR 06 - THIS ERROR DOES NOT EXIST.
(Funny how all error messages used to be capitalized)

The manufacterer sended a technician to witness this so-called nonexisting error. And even then they persisted : this is not possible.

Brian H | 6 janvier 2013

Wot, you guys driving LaserJets?

lightly | 6 janvier 2013

This reminds me of a quote I once read by Bill Gates to GM...

http://coolquotescollection.com/5295/at-a-recent-computer-expo-comdex-bi...

ylyubarsky | 6 janvier 2013

I advice you that one of the owners has to collect the list of all bugs as I collect MUST-HAVE list on a different thread. Maybe TM look on this thread once in a while and start fixing them. I don't have a car yet but looking on the list of problems - I am a little scared.
Lightly - Funny article but close to reality.

1) When putting the car in reverse, the rear camera would not automatically show on the display
2) I could not tune to any FM radio station (or get any audio to come from it whether in HD radio or not)
3) Blue tooth streaming of audio played with excessive choppiness if at all
4) No SFX on turn blinkers or hazard lights
5) My location on Google Maps could not keep up with my true location w/o being stopped and pressing to center the location of my car in the middle of the map
6) Unable to adjust the air suspension (it is greyed regardless of being in park or not, with brakes supressed or not).
7). No 3G bars after a cold night in the garage. Slacker voice control working so I've got connectivity just no indicator.
8). 3G signal not working
9). Trip not working
10). 17" not registering a temperature but the dashboard is
11). Turn signal sound off
12). Rear camera not functioning
13). Headlights being on during the broad day light
14). Backup camera did not display in reverse, radio had no sound and could not manually select channels (XM, FM, AM), and Nav would not stay up with current location
15). Energy meter wasn't updating (the rated range was), and the tip counters and total mileage where not moving either
16). Temperature showed -- instead of digits and the Trunk button was greyed out even in Park mode and the display was in Night Mode although it was bright sunny day outdoor.

Bill in Austin | 6 janvier 2013

When I left my office last Thursday afternoon my Model S had cold-soaked all day outside at 46°. After about 5 minutes of driving an alert came on stating "Battery is heating" and energy use leapt to the top of the display while projected range plummeted to 70 miles, down in heartbeat from 210 a few seconds before.

I took this to mean that the car had switched on a powerful heater within the battery system to warm it quickly to optimum temperature. (It did occur to me at the moment that this ambiguous message might mean the battery was over-heating, i.e., thermal runaway in some of the cells; but I considered this unlikely because of the liquid cooling). After another 5 minutes the warning disappeared and all seemed normal.

The next morning as I drove to my office there was an alert below my speedometer that said "12 volt battery needs service"; so I immediately emailed our Austin Service Manager.  He got back to me right away, and said he'd have Tesla run a remote diagnostic on my car.  In the mean time, he was able to reshuffle his own schedule for the day in order to make time to check my car that afternoon.

When he arrived he wasn't optimistic because the Tesla remote diagnostic had suggested that my main 10wk onboard charger was faulty, and he didn't have a spare.  Hoping against hope that the 12 volt battery might be the culprit, he took the entire frunk area apart in my garage to replace that battery which is buried deep and to the passenger side of that recess in the frunk covered by the cargo net.  Sadly, no dice - replacing the 12v battery didn't fix the problem.  

Kudos to my Service Manager who did his best to solve the problem on the spot.

Now the next step is to have a new 10kw charger FedEx'd from Fremont, not to arrive until Monday or Tuesday at the earliest. In the mean time, my brand new $100K car can do nothing more than look pretty in the garage. Sigh!

I must confess that my previously rock-solid confidence in my Model S has been rattled by this unfortunate event.  What if this had happened while I was in Houston, 170 miles from home? Or in the middle of nowhere?  

Why would such an vital piece of solid state electronics crap out with only 400 miles on it?  At this point we don't know if it failed because of some defect within the charger itself; or whether something else in the electrical system is defective and perhaps overloaded the 10kw charger causing it to fail. Could that "Battery is heating" message the night before have anything to do with this?  Can individual modules within the main battery short out, overheat, and thus produce an overload failure in the charger?

It will be quite a while before any of us learn hard details about how Tesla manages 12v and high voltage power because the inner workings of this car are doubtless Tesla's most closely guarded proprietary secrets; yet we can be certain they're burning lot of midnight oil at Tesla as they strive for their ultimate goal of "The Best Car in the World."

I've got my fingers crossed that my replacement charger will solve the problem for good, and that my Model S will now give me at least 50,000 miles of trouble-free driving as I've enjoyed from my Lexus.

"Keepin' the faith."

Arturo M | 6 janvier 2013

Twice now, I have found my Model S has rolled down all its windows while charging in my garage. I can't imagine this is by design? What if someone is charging at a public station? And if it has nothing to do with charging, I am really worried I'll find my car with its windows down in a public parking lot.

Also, other weird issues:
1. The other day my screen was displaying an error message in gibberish.
2. The screen was displaying the wrong date and I could not correct it. It eventually self-corrected.
3. The Bluetooth audio streaming is very unreliable. And I put my phone in the cup holder, so I don't think it's my body blocking the signal.

cerjor | 6 janvier 2013

When I walk up to the car (with tech package) the handles extend as expected. When I open the door the windshield wipers make one swipe which is unexpected. Anyone else experience this?

christine_orita | 6 janvier 2013

I for one has a very low level of tolerance for issues. Especially so when you're dropping almost 100k on a car!
I am still waiting for my configur button and I am beginning to hope I don't get it too soon now so I can chew on this.

Someone who already has experienced massive amounts of issues should write Elon or GB a direct email to inform them of the issues. They may already know but it doesn't hurt that they also know that large numbers of people are following the forum very closely and possibly making detrimental decisions like canceling their reservation on account of such bad publicity.

I have seen forum threads where emails to GB have received personal responses. Would be nice to hear they are fully aware and are making their utmost efforts to stay on top of issues like these and diligently working on fixes.

I have been following Tesla for months and is a huge fan but they have to show us that they deserve our continued support.

P12704

mkh1437 | 6 janvier 2013

@cerjor, I have noticed this on occasion. I *think* I have determined that it happens if the wipers were left in one of the rain sensing positions. I've noticed that it only seems to happen if it was raining prior to when I parked the car, and the wipers were left in one of the intermittent rain-sensing positions. I have never see it happen when the wipers were actually "off".

Carefree | 6 janvier 2013

Christine, we are still beta testers. These problems and issues will keep coming up for quite some time. I fully expected this. It is a brand new car with tons of new technology. Many of the bugs you are hearing about are difficult to find up front. People do things to their cars that an engineer would never dream of - and therefore could not foresee them.

jjaeger | 6 janvier 2013

cerjor, agree with mkh1437, when the wipers are set in auto-mode, this seems to be the current behavior. Think in one of the Software threads, there is a request to change this behavior. My Seville operating similarly when the auto-wipers were on, but since that one swipe only occurred when you 'started' the car (vs. the S starting up immediately), I never got wet. Now you open the door and the blade cleans the windshield with you standing next to an open door. Not desired - and am sure it will be addressed in a future software release.

KevinR.co.us | 6 janvier 2013

Carefree +1 This is the best car I have ever driven (& it's electric). I am confident all this small stuff will be resolved and I am pleased to be part of the beta testing group.

christine_orita | 6 janvier 2013

Kevin and Carefree, thanks for your feedback. I have seen lots of Model S owners feedback that this is the best car they have ever driven, some of whom have experienced minor issues, others who seemingly have had the fortune of not running into any issues.

I guess if these are not serious technical issues ( for e.g. Something related to control of the inverter for regulating speed or steering related because there are issues with reading the steering), I need to calm down :-)

I am still a huge fan and just want to make sure I am making the right decision with going with a 1st gen Model S.

I still think it would be a good idea to make sure Tesla executives know about these issues...

DouglasR | 6 janvier 2013

To state the obvious: a reboot tends to fix a lot of the little electronic glitches I have experienced (e.g., no sound from the blinkers).

Regarding reboot, I have noticed that a long press of both steering wheel scroll wheels seems to reboot BOTH the touch screen and the instrument panel displays. Isn't that supposed to reboot the touch screen display only?

GeirT | 6 janvier 2013

Carefree, sorry but I disagree. I do not accept to be considered a "beta tester". I expect to buy a finished product as I also expect an exquisite one. If the described issues are not handled properly and timely by TM I will not take my order. I will then climb back on the fence, wait to see what the beta testing period uncovers and their remedies, and then consider to sign up again. For the equivalent of USD 100,000 I expect "more". That said, I will give time to see what shall happen. I am not up for delivery before late summer at best so no rush.

Mark E | 6 janvier 2013

Arturo M: I suspect that you are inadvertently holding a button down on the key fob. Years ago I discovered the same threat with an RX-7 that I owned. While walking away from the car I heard it unlock and realised that the remote was being triggered by other things in my pocket. I was 30 yards away from the car at the time!

jjaeger | 6 janvier 2013

GeirT, I fall into the middle category that christine_orita outlines - having only a single instance of no blinker sound and therefore a single reboot after it persisted across a couple of short trips. And like I think everyone who has their car, I just love it each time I 'need' to take it out on an errand or go to work - as it is so much fun to drive, and I make up excuses or volunteer to go to the store etc whenever the opportunity arrives.

All that being said - there are indeed numerous early quality issues, the known items on the due bill, and yes I believe we are all Beta testers for much of the 17in screen software. Based upon your comments, I strongly suggest you indeed cancel or defer, and let the early adopters work with TM to shake this completely out. While I never signed up for such duty, I will gladly do so, and as long as the fixes come along over the next few quarters, have no issue participating with TM in the process.

psullivanassoc | 6 janvier 2013

I feel like I was one of the last to get 4.1 on my Sig. When it finally came down last Wednesday all seemed fine until I tried to drive. I had an error showing the car needed service and it wouldn't go into drive or reverse. I am thinking no big deal. I will just reboot. The reboot got me on my way and all seemed good except I still showed the car needs service. I also no longer had an odometer on the instrument panel, couldn't use my phone or music from the steering wheel and a few other minor annoyances. Three more reboots didn't fix them. (I was starting to like the idea of a Sig with no odometer).

I called my service center in San Diego at 5:45 AM thinking I would leave a message. To my surprise I got a live person in Fremont. He figured they would need to log into my car and do a hard reset. (I wish I knew how to do that). So while I was at worked they did a remote reboot and all is good.

I just love my car and this company. Their level of service blows me away.

Carefree | 6 janvier 2013

GeirT, I totally understand where you are coming from but I don't think the car with its current "minor" bugs and tweaks is for you. If you expect perfection when the car is being delivered to you then you will be disappointed. I am not saying what we are seeing right now is ideal but it is to be expected. I used to work in the software business and I know about early adopters:-) Wait until later this year and re-order the car then - you will be much happier.

jeremy.gordon | 6 janvier 2013

Same problem on 4.1 today in the Bay Area in a garage, so definitely not cold related. Rebooting fixed everything but the ability to adjust the ride height. At the moment, I do not seem to be able to adjust the right height (it stays grayed out regardless of the car being in park with the brake pedal on).

JThompson | 6 janvier 2013

DaveBs advice was right on, but I would add one more thing. I had the same problem and called the Tesla Roadside Assistance to document the car's problem. (866) 998-3752

It's important Tesla begin to build histories on the cars and any issues.

mkh1437 | 6 janvier 2013

@psullivanassoc, you aren't the last Sig to get 4.1... I haven't gotten mine yet! I'm still running 1.15.14, and feeling very left out. :-(

Joyrider | 6 janvier 2013

I would like to know why the computers and software that cntrol the engine which must be very complex seem to have no problems...can't think of a post that mentions anything computer related with a driving problem.

Yet, there are literly dozens, and dozens of posts about computer problems with the secondary controls. It would seem this would actually be the more simple part of the car...turn radio on/off, lock/unlock the doors, work the headlights, pair a phone, etc.

If complicated motor controls are glitch free why is there such a circus with the other computer run parts of the car?

Joyrider | 6 janvier 2013

literally

Brian H | 6 janvier 2013

lightly;
GM's response:

"If General Motors had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
.
*For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
*Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
*Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason, you would simply accept this.
*Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
*Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but would run on only five percent of the roads.
*The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
*The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
*Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
*Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
*You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.

edcalis | 7 janvier 2013

I am really concerned now. I'd rather lose the $5000 deposit and cancel my order, than having to deal with this Windows crap.

edcalis | 7 janvier 2013

I don't understand. TESLA wants to be as successful as Apple, yet it used Windows software for this great car?

Alex K | 7 janvier 2013

@edcalis@mac.com | JANUARY 7, 2013: I don't understand. TESLA wants to be as successful as Apple, yet it used Windows software for this great car?

I don't know where you got the impression they are using [Microsoft] Windows software for this car? The main 17" display is using Linux. The GUI was developed by Tesla and appears to run under X windows.

vouteb | 7 janvier 2013

it feels to me that for (cash flow reasons) they have rushed out the car.
I don t buy the $100k Beta tester argument.
I now expect some more negative press, despite the fact that Tesla should be able to fix these issues remotely.
Still, the 12V battery seems a construction hardware issue.

Thanks to you all California/US people who go through this as in the UK I can t expect the car before the 2nd half of this year.

By then these issues better be solved (and no new ones) or the Tesla gloss will wear off.

DanD | 7 janvier 2013

We went through this with a baby stroller last year. The 4 moms Origami stroller is one of a kind, has regen wheels that charge lights, odometer and motorized collapse. Very flashy and high tech like the Model S. In fact it turned heads when we took it to a Model S event last year.

It's also a $1000 stroller.

My wife explicitly agreed to be a Beta customer so she got a discount. And sure enough things didn't go smoothly. We had to return 5 strollers and the thing would stop working at inopportune times.

I was mad at the company constantly though I liked having a cool stroller.

I'm taking delivery of the Model S in 3 weeks so its too late to get back on the fence. I just hope Tesla doesn't put me through the luxury Beta tester experience. I don't ever want to have to reboot my car!.

vouteb | 7 janvier 2013

DanD : +1

sjledet | 12 janvier 2013

Just received my Model S. Bluetooth will not connect to my iPhone 4S. The iPhone sees it but Model S just Blootooth Initializing. Please wait a moment. 3 hours later, still says the same thing. I tried resetting both displays (top two steering wheel buttons for main and then two scroll wheels in for center). No joy. Still the same problem. Called Roadside assistance (it's a Saturday). The are opening a ticket. Pretty disappointing to spend nearly $100K on a new vehicle and have it delivered without bluetooth capability. Audi would never do that.

jjaeger | 12 janvier 2013

My iPhone as well as my daughters paired immediately. And no issue going back and forth between the two of them while we're both in the car.

Beaker | 14 janvier 2013

Every so often my iPhone 4 will no pair when I get in the car. Turing off the iPhone's bluetooth waiting a few seconds then turning it back on seems to fix it. I usually follow this maneuver with telling the Model S to connect.

MathewR | 17 janvier 2013

Last night, I experienced the EXACT same list of problems, including no SFX with turn signals, no available car-height adjustment, no audio for FM, rear camera not turning on, map not showing location, etc. I googled just now "problem tesla computer" and got to this forum page, and upon reading, felt like DLPrager was my doppelganger. So exactly and specifically the issues I'm having, and no others, so far (I do love the car). I will try DaveB's suggested reboots, and report back.

Brian H | 17 janvier 2013

RWFI. Maybe.

pilotSteve | 17 janvier 2013

@Joyrider - I can speak to this from my experience managing an engineering team that developed flight critical software for aircraft.

Short answer is that all functionality must be documented (no "hey this is a neat idea") and designed, followed by a written TEST plan, and finally (for "Level-A" critical software such as engine or flight controls) a full branch-path TEST SOFTWARE must be designed and proven to show that all possible paths of the code have been shown to execute correctly and that any unused code is REMOVED to guarantee reliability.

Furthermore, the entire suite of (complex but automated) test must be run again as regression testing whenever ANY change is made to the code that results in a new release.

You can see why this approach is very stable. In fact, the FDA built their medical equipment critical software certification based on what the FAA has had for years, and the FAA took lots of input from Boeing, Rockwell, Honeywell and others on best practices.

Oh yes, the engineering cost is about 12x that of non-critical software development, it takes 3-20x longer (depending on budget and manpower) and the rate at which features are added or changed is best described as "glacial".

But thats the kind of effort that has produced very reliable power train, ABS braking, traction control, etc etc that we enjoy in the Model-S.

Personally, I am very willing to use agile software development techniques for maps, entertainment, lighting, audio, cabin amenities, sunroof, etc. so we get the features we all crave faster in exchange for being 'beta testers' and living thru some bugs.

DouglasR | 17 janvier 2013

Great explanation, pilotSteve, and very comforting! I share your toleration of bugs in non-critical systems.

Getting Amped Again | 17 janvier 2013

I'm not getting my S for another month, but my real concern is the bad publicity that a very poor JD Power or Consumer Reports rating would generate. It would be great fodder for the Haters and very detrimental to the TM cause. I know TM is working very hard to resolve these issues - I just hope it's soon enough.

DouglasR | 17 janvier 2013

@GAS

I've never hung out at a car forum before, although I assume there must be an owner's forum or club for just about any make. How common is it to see complaints? I know the threads or forums for every computer I've owned are full of complaints, and yet my experience has generally been ok.

mferrazano | 17 janvier 2013

To those who have not received their car or are nervous about buying one after reading this blog, take heart, I have had my MS (85kWh Perf will all bells/whistles) for 3 weeks (675 miles) with no problems, the car is reliable and stable. As an example, I intentionally left it out last night with temperatures that drifted below freezing (in SF Bay Area, that is cold) and woke up this morning with a thick coat of ice on it. The car was unplugged and lost only 4 miles range. The car started up and ran smoothly. The only issues that I have ever had are related more to my lack of information and not the car.

I understand that some people are experiencing real problems, but methinks that they are the unlucky few. I believe that unless I am extremely lucky, my experience is the norm.

Flex | 17 janvier 2013

Sorry to hear some people are having issues. I was wondering what % of owners are having problems. I guess I am one of the lucky ones ( hope this does not jinks me for saying so) car is just over a month old with 1,000 miles on it and it has been perfect. Only issue is that occasionally I have to hit connect to reconnect my phone.

erictridoc | 17 janvier 2013

I share mferrazano's experience. I have had my MS for 3 weeks with about 1200 miles into it. I have had no problems and cannot wait to drive it each day. It is truly exhilarating. I have had to reboot the console a couple of times but other than that it has performed as advertised. I think I have now been responsible for at least 4 people that I know placing reservations....

drp | 17 janvier 2013

mferrazano@gmail.com | JANUARY 17, 2013
........, I intentionally left it out last night with temperatures that drifted below freezing (in SF Bay Area, that is cold) and woke up this morning with a thick coat of ice on it. The car was unplugged and lost only 4 miles range. The car started up and ran smoothly. The only issues that I have ever had are related more to my lack of information and not the car.

I think my concern is that while I was driving to work the other day the thermometer in my car show that it was 7°. The temperature of 7° never got any higher than 24° for the day. Being parked outside for six or seven hours while at the office is a lot different than 32°. Compounding that with a weeks worth of temperatures never reaching 30 and there is additional concern.

Getting Amped Again | 17 janvier 2013

DouglasR | January 17, 2013
@GAS
I've never hung out at a car forum before, although I assume there must be an owner's forum or club for just about any make. How common is it to see complaints? I know the threads or forums for every computer I've owned are full of complaints, and yet my experience has generally been ok.

Flex | January 17, 2013
Sorry to hear some people are having issues. I was wondering what % of owners are having problems. I guess I am one of the lucky ones ( hope this does not jinks me for saying so) car is just over a month old with 1,000 miles on it and it has been perfect. Only issue is that occasionally I have to hit connect to reconnect my phone.

I'm with you DouglasR, I've never been on any forum of any sort before this one - wonder if that's true for most? Agree with Flex also, it would be great if there was actual data, as those with issues might be (and hopefully are) overly represented. I think it's reasonable to assume that owners with issues are more likely to post than those without, as a lot of useful information and solutions are presented on the forum.

Speaking for myself, I'll probably stay active on the forum for a few weeks after I receive my car and then drift off forever. Or maybe not?

I get a new car about every three years and enjoy the process of selecting it, but generally only spend a 2-3 weeks doing so. Having to wait 10 months for a piece of technology I was really interested in has been a new experience for me, and like most, this forum was a way to pass the time away. I can't imagine what it's been like for the guys/gals that have been waiting for years!

Sounds like a new forum topic - "First timer on a forum?"

sbern18 | 17 janvier 2013

Have car (p85 w 19" tires) for 2 1/2 weeks, 900 miles, and virtually no problems. I'm in n.j. And many days have been around freezing, have had to reboot screen a few times only.

mferrazano | 17 janvier 2013

drp: if I lived in an area with such harsh weather I would likely have thought twice about purchasing a vehicle that relies upon a temperature dependent chemical reaction for motive power.

KevinR.co.us | 17 janvier 2013

Earlier this week I had my traction and stability control go offline. There was no change in driving. I shut down the car & restarted (which corrected it). Later that day I dropped by the Service Center. They looked up my car by VIN in the Tesla database & told me the time the errors had occured. This was done sitting in the office of the service center with my SP parked outside. It appears to me that Tesla has an amazing capacity for data collection & troubleshooting. I remember the days that I would be told "If it happens again bring it in." Now it is "If we can't fix it remotely we will ask you to come in". Still lovin this car.

anpahwa | 18 janvier 2013

I had the exact same set of problems as described in the original post when I got in my car to leave work a few days ago. I followed the instructions DaveB provided to reset the touch screen (holding down the scroll bars), which fixed the issue entirely.

Brian H | 18 janvier 2013

RWFI

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