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WHOA! I hope the MS price is not an indication of things to come

WHOA! I hope the MS price is not an indication of things to come

I just priced the MS (with all the goodies) and it came to around $142,000!!!

I can’t spend that much on a car (I already have an MS that cost a lot less) and I was hoping the MX would be around the same $80k-$90k MAX...plus the sweet Fed/State rebate. I hope this “duel motor” thing didn’t price me out.

Now all I want for Christmas is for Santa to keep the pricing of the MX “somewhat” affordable.

ian t.wa.us | 11 décembre 2014

Quit adding ALL the goodies! You gotta pay to play! Haha! ;-)

The base S is still about $70k. The X should start at about $75k - $80k and top out about the same $140k.

Cheers!

ian t.wa.us | 11 décembre 2014

That is, if they even offer a 60kWh battery in the X. If not, I guess it will start in the mid to upper $80's as that is where the 85D starts.

Iowa92x | 11 décembre 2014

60 pack on an X makes no sense. Base will be 85 and 100+ option if Tesla wants 200 + miles.

georgehawley.fl.us | 11 décembre 2014

@iowa92x +1. I'm figuring that the non-performance version of the MX with third row seats and tech package will price out at right around $100K.

ian t.wa.us | 11 décembre 2014

Iowa, I hope you're correct with that prediction. As it is though, that's all it is, a prediction.

pvetesla | 12 décembre 2014

Here are the items I need:

* Third Row (for those times we need to take 6 or 7 peeps)
* 85 pack (need the range since it's a family trip car)
* Tech Package (a must for all the special features)

OK..OK. It looks like the MS would price at about $95,000 with those goodies. I'm still a little nervous about other features I'm going to be charged for.....or NEED.

Brian H | 12 décembre 2014

If the M3 is lighter, 200 mi on a 60 is easy; the S60 gets that already.

ian t.wa.us | 12 décembre 2014

We're talking about the MX here Brian. ;-)

Iowa92x | 12 décembre 2014

There is no 60D. Therefore, there won't be a 60X. Range on an X 60 wouldn't break 200 miles, which isn't Tesla's thang.

vandacca | 12 décembre 2014

Website still has 60kWh and 85kWh batteries. Just saying. It can still change, but they have been making minor changes power train as they solidify the design. They may still be able to squeeze out improved efficiencies to come close to the Model-S range numbers.

Iowa92x | 12 décembre 2014

I don't think so, unless the Feds allow side fire rear view cameras. X will be at least 10% efficiency hit.

Larger pack in 6 months, so they hushed on batt size until then.

Red Sage ca us | 14 décembre 2014

Oh, well. That'll teach me. Battery died on this tablet before I could plug in or save the lengthy post I composed on this form to Notepad.

~*sigh*~

Anyway... Yeah, I really think a new, higher capacity battery pack should debut with Model X.

The EPA forces a calculation of energy use that is higher than actual. They further impose testing that deflates the rated range of electric vehicles by default. Then they impose the stupid MPGe standard, which is financially based instead of on actual driving performance. All this stacks the deck, to make electric cars less appealing.

Nothing can be done about the MPGe rating, or induction losses during charging. But a higher capacity battery pack could allow a real world range rating of 300+ miles, and 200+ miles while towing. The 85 kWh battery pack is likely to be the smallest offered for the Model X.

This probably means the Model X 60 will not materialize. But we knew that when the Model S 60D was cancelled, didn't we? Tesla Motors wants all their cars rated at 200+ miles range from now on. Close, but no cigar, is not acceptable.

Tesla Motors may even choose to forgo both 60 kWh and 85 kWh versions and simply use a 100+ kWh battery pack as the base, or sole, option for Model X. All the better to make ordering as simple as possible. It really matters most how this will affect the base price of Model X.

Still, I hope it ends up being an 85 kWh version standard, priced within $5,000 of similarly equipped Model S 85D. I then hope a Model X P135 appears to satisfy both extreme range and high performance needs on the top end.

vandacca | 14 décembre 2014

I don't believe you can just simply "throw money" (i.e. just add more batteries) at a Model-X to extend the range. An increase in 40% more battery capacity (from 60kWh to 85kWh) only increases the range by 30%.

An additional 40% battery increase will likely only increase the range by ~20% and the law of diminishing returns is upon us. Also, the added weight will be a huge inconvenience for an already heavy vehicle. The 60kWh Model-S is significantly more efficient than the 85kWh Model-S

Range is a very complex problem that needs to tackled by multiple paths (i.e. a system-design approach) There are more intelligent ways to increase range, for example, better battery chemistry, lighter weight, better aerodynamics, smarter regen, more efficient electronics, reducing rolling friction (thinner wheels), etc.

Adding batteries alone, without addressing these other areas is a foolish and expensive approach that I don't believe Tesla can afford. I can believe that a slightly larger pack may be an option (e.g. 100kWh) but I would be very surprised if they go any higher than 100kWh with the current battery chemistry. They desperately need to reduce the battery-pack weight.

Iowa92x | 14 décembre 2014

Go from 3200 mah cells to Panasonic 4000 mah cells and you got better range and reduced weight. Side cameras instead of mirrors is key, saves 10%.

Red Sage ca us | 14 décembre 2014

9,927 of the Panasonic 4.0 Ah batteries, which hold 13.6 Wh each would yield 135 kWh and weigh ~536 kg. That's around 1,200 lbs, so if you allow another 300 lbs for casing, electronics, and cooling system, you have a 1,500 lbs battery pack.

This would require 12,981 of the Panasonic 2.9 Ah batteries, for an estimated total weight of 1,557 lbs.

Pretty close, really. But the fewer battery cells used, the smaller the physical size of the battery pack.

vandacca | 14 décembre 2014

That's better. Keeping the same battery capacity while reducing the weight, will increase range. That's the smart way to increase range, rather than just adding more batteries.

I really, really hope that Tesla manages to some how make some really innovative engineering choices and keep the range similar to the Model-S, despite the larger frontal area and heavier mass.

In my opinion, this is as much a reason for the production delay of the Model-X as is the Falcon Wing Doors.

Gert van Veen | 16 décembre 2014

Given the geographical coverage of the superchargers it might be better to create opportunities to recharge faster.
Are there any possibilities there?
It would also be possible to charge with 200 kw?

vandacca | 16 décembre 2014

The fastest charging will still take 20-30 minutes at the latest upgraded Super-chargers. The one option that hasn't been implemented yet is the battery-swap solution, which would take 90 seconds to swap a new fully-charged battery pack.

However, that would not be free and Tesla has not indicated the pricing structure for it. Nor has Tesla indicated when or even if they will ever implement this option.

jjs | 16 décembre 2014

Elon himself said the price for a battery swap would be similar to a tank of gas. Estimated at $50-$60 for a swap. You can see this in the battery swap video unveiling.

Iowa92x | 16 décembre 2014

Swap not gonna happen on a large scale, messing with $30k packs does not compute. Swapping demo needed for full tax credits.

Gert van Veen | 17 décembre 2014

What would be the technical barrier to recharge the battery faster. As far as I know a Tesla battery pack has about 7,000 cells. Would it be possible to charge it faster parallel?

Brian H | 17 décembre 2014

Gert;
There's no room for 7,000 charge ports, even little teeny ones.

What makes you think cells don't charge in parallel now?

vandacca | 17 décembre 2014

You can get two onboard chargers so that your wall connector will charge twice as fast. I suspect that the battery pack is therefore split in two (or more) series circuits to allow the superchargers to charge in parallel.

bevguy | 20 décembre 2014

You may "want" that Tech Package but you don't "need it"
I get along fine without it in my S85.

georgehawley.fl.us | 30 décembre 2014

MX with 500 kWh battery pack:

>

Brian H | 30 décembre 2014

5 miles range.

AlMc | 30 décembre 2014

Pricing: 5-10% above a comparable model S (D series)

Sin_Gas | 31 décembre 2014

vandacca inspired an idea;

How about the MX with 2 charge ports, one on each side of the car, so that you could use 2 SC stations in parallel and charge twice as fast? Need some internal switching. Might be just the ticket for the 105 Kwh, 125 Kwh, 135 Kwh, 150 Kwh?

That way you could SC normally with a single SC, or dual SC.

We have dual motor, why not dual SC?

Sin Gas

jjs | 31 décembre 2014

@Sin_Gas
Because there is a limit to the amount of charge an individual cell can accept. 2 SC at full power would greatly exceed that capacity. Additionally to protect the battery the amount is stepped down as the battery gets full. This is because the ability to accept charge within an individual cell safely reduces as it get close to capacity. So even if 2 SC could be some benefit when the cells were empty, it would quickly disappear as the cell filled.

However the MX with 500 kWh battery pack is a GREAT idea. ;)