Maybe because driving is an existential experience?
Nissan asks "Why wait for this...
...when you can have this now".
Something Bloomberg made me realize is that the Leaf is similar in price per kWh compared with Model S. "Why Wait When You Can Drive an All Electric Model S Today?
Kind of like having a late reservation for a $400 truffle and wine pairing dinner, but getting hungry and downing a can of Spam...
The better question is "why didn't you wait in line to buy one of these"
I can't wait to get in line to buy a Nissan Leaf said nobody, ever.
Why cover your car up with words? Oh, it's ugly, I see.
@carlgo2 Or in my case instant noodles.
My kids count Teslas (Model Xes count double!), Mommy cars (brothers/sisters are same color as Mom's, cousins are different colors), and new "ugly" Priuses.
I remind them that aesthetics are sometimes important.
I drive a Nissan Leaf and love it. I don't think it looks ugly (unlike BMW i3), but each to their own. I certainly placed more value on it being fully electric than appearances, which I care less about.
BUT the Nissan support of the Leaf in Australia has been less than stellar. They imported about 750 of the original Gen 1's in 2012 and it's taken them nearly 4 years to sell them all. They argue poor sales meant there was no incentive to import any of the newer models. But was poor sales poor salemanship? Dealers who preferred to push other product? Fertile ground for debate there.
Now that they've all gone, we might get the 3rd Gen long-range 2017 model. Might.
So "why wait when you can drive a Leaf"? The answer is - When you don't actually sell the latest models here! Tesla has made a commitment to Australia, so they win the prize right here, right now.
We own a Leaf and I think it's okay. It is ugly, but you get used to it. A Leaf is the kind of car that makes you tell your friends that you're not really into cars, that cars are just to get you from Point A to Point B. You believed that crock. You take pride in how much more practical and enlightened you are. Only fools would buy fancy cars or fast cars or pretty cars. You repeat what your thrifty relatives told you about cars just from pt a to pt b. You had to believe it, because there was no alternative and you get comfortable, even tolerant, with a boring car. At the supermarket, you still look at car magazines. That dream is still there, latent, made dormant by the message that it's just point a to point b. Until the day you test drove a Model S.
Many people will come out of the lull in two years.
I think the real reason is mainstream car manufacturers are still only giving EVs lip service. They are saving their more aesthetic designs for their ICE market. Remember if you have an expensive factory churning out engine blocks, you need to keep selling ICE cars.
Look at examples like Kodak to see how slow multinationals are at recognising paradigm shifts.
A lot of people would have bought Nissan right now as a commuter until something better is available, assuming they can charge the car without problems either at home or at work.
I too find it ugly, but so what? All cars will sit in the same traffic no matter how cool or ugly.
The better question is why not drive a three year old off lease Leaf w 24K miles on it for $10K?. Plug that short term hole in your heart with a (really) depreciated Leaf. You'll spend less $s and you will really appreciate that M3 when it shows up.
Nissan asks "Why are our advertising costs infinitely higher for the Leaf than for the M3? ..... and with a fraction of the results?"
There is no real mystery as to why other EVs look as they do. Sit back for a moment and think about this. Just about every car companies' entry level car is hatchback. These are loss leaders for them with the hope that you later upgrade to one of their bread and butter cars. They don't want an EV to been seen ad nothing more than a "starter car".
Nissan know how to build a BEV. If they wanted to, they could easily scale it up to an Altima size and better looking, car. Obviously via the success of the "$100,000" MS and MX, there is a market for larger EVs. Yet.............
The Nissan Leaf is the world's all-time best selling highway-capable all-electric car. Sure kicked Tesla ass.
Save the hate for ICE cars.
Not intending to hate on the owners of the Leaf. I just thought it was funny that they would cover up their car with words to try to make a point, almost as if they are embarrassed by the design of their vehicle. I hope they are. I think the general consensus in EV-land is that the major car companies have given us clown cars until Tesla arrived. I actually am leasing one of those clown cars now (Chevy Spark EV) since I needed something before Model ≡ is available. It gets me to work and back, but honestly, I probably look like a clown getting out of it since I am 5'11" and 250 lbs. If you place Model S, or X or ≡ next to any of these clown cars, there is only one choice, Tesla. Yes, they have filled the gap and were necessary, but will quickly become very unnecessary. If you want a very cheap EV in 2018, there will be some serious fire sales. There may be fire sales this year and next as the compliance vehicles need to sell.
I am glad for all EVs, but it appears the major manufacturers really don't care much about creating a "compelling" EV in spite of Nissan's insistence that they are All-In on EVs.
groovykool, is your definition of "kicked ass" the highway capability or the number of car sold? Also, I don't know where you live, but here in New England, you rarely will see a Leaf on the highways. It is obviously not for the lack of capability, because anything that can get up to 65 can be on the highway. The range on those is just not worth most people's trouble to take it on the highways.
Also, the "hate" that most people are displaying is not towards the cars themselves, but the car companies.
As you said, the Leaf is the worlds all time best selling EV. So wouldn't you think that would be reason enough, for Nissan to build a larger one.........?
You know what would have been easier for Nissan? To not build any EV's at all. I hope they design more. I think we should encourage all car companies that design, build and sell EV's.
Go pick on Toyota they love Hybrids but hate EVs"
Toyota chairman said:“The reason why Toyota doesn’t introduce any major [pure electric vehicle] is because we do not believe there is a market to accept it.”
"I hope they design more. I think we should encourage all car companies that design, build and sell EV's."
Got it and I don't think anyone here is arguing that point. However your logic is giving Nissan a pass because they already built their one EV. You would think they could leverage this having the "highest selling EV" as a way to promote another design. In the time that the Leaf has been out, Tesla has produced 3 different models and released the prototype of their 4th.
I "pick on" Nissan because apart from Tesla they are the only ones to sell in relative large numbers, a BEV. So they of any company should be leading the way with another model.
Who says that EV customers don't want to drive hatchback? If that were a problem, Tesla never would have come out with the Model S.
My only problem with the Leaf BEV is the implicit message, from an ICE manufacturer, built into it's design.
It says to me that to drive electric you must sacrifice (speed, handling, style, etc.).
That's the explicit message in the recent Audi A3 Etron hybrid commercial.
400,000 people have rejected that message
LEAF, LOL, POS.
@groovykool: "Nissan Leaf is the world's all-time best selling highway-capable all-electric car" -- (from Wikipedia) Do you work for Nissan or something? I feel like I'm in the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
"Leaf global sales passed the 200,000 unit milestone in December 2015, five years after its introduction." (Wikipedia)
"By April 19, Tesla had taken nearly 400,000 reservations" (Wikipedia)
So, yeah, all-time-best selling for another few months and then the statement is history.
This is Nissan's vision and it is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zZ2h2MRCe0 Supercharging is IMO the biggest bottleneck for Tesla. It's great, but you still have to spend 30 mins waiting to charge (admittedly only a few times a year, but still). If Nissan can pull off wireless charging it would be fantastic.
@Octagondd "I think the general consensus in EV-land is that the major car companies have given us clown cars until Tesla arrived." -- hah, +1.
We should all be celebrating EVs, the various pot-shots at Nissan here are rather unfair in my view. Of all the "traditional" carmakers, Nissan probably has the strongest and most authentic commitment to developing EVs and they should be warmly congratulated for that, not mocked and pilloried.
Nissan was the first in the world to sell 200k EVs and nothing and no-one can ever take that away from them. Tesla may very well overtake them (or almost certainly overtake them) sometime in 2018 which will be an incredible achievement for Tesla but all I want to see is the global market for EVs doubling every year.
And who knows, Nissan might get a 300+ km Leaf on the streets next year, ahead of Tesla Model 3, and at possibly a lower price. Sure, Nissan lack a fast charging network of their own and will have to rely on third-party DC fast (Chademo) chargers to compete for the "highway driving" market, but at least they are on the playing field competing, unlike many other carmakers (Toyota in particular, I'm looking at you).
I test drove a Nissan Altra in the late 90's. I wanted it, but it never came to market.
I want the latest and greatest for my price point. 45k Leaf is so far behind technologically. The battery only goes 1/2 as stated range when it is below 39 degrees. Seen it with my friends car. No thanks.
To all ICE companies- Get your compliance car sales in now cause this is coming soon! The world is forever changed. Thank you Elon.
I find Nissan ads very misleading when it says in the very first sentence that the LEAF gets "best-in-class range". It might be true currently but if the intent of the ads is to compare to the Model 3, implying thus that they are in the same class, then this will lead people who don't know conclude that the LEAF range is very competitive when compared to Model 3. Notwithstanding all the other factors such as Autopilot, supercharger, design etc. to me this ads implies that buying a LEAF now gets us about the same thing as waiting and buying the Model 3 in two years.
This is very misleading and at the limit insulting to our intelligence. I applaud Nissan for pushing EVs and think that this type of misleading ads should be beneath them.
I don't think that statement is misleading, I think they are not comparing to the model 3, and that is reasonable. Why should a car company trying to sell their current product compare themselves to a new car that will come out in 2 years with unknown specs?
By that logic nobody could ever claim to be the best at anything because years later there will inevitably be something better.
Hi Nissan will show the all new leaf end of this year.And tesla has set the bench mark for them. I am a Leaf owner and have a deposit placed for model 3.
"Why should a car company trying to sell their current product compare themselves to a new car that will come out in 2 years with unknown specs?"
Nissan ads invites the comparison by telling buyers that it is not worth waiting for the M3 because they can buy the LEAF right now.
The statement that it is not worth waiting already implies to me that the current car is almost as good as the new one. Then adding that the current car has "best-in-class" range reinforces that implication and can mislead uninformed buyers.
Question to Nissan : Why not build a pure electric car with 200+ mile with long distance driving capability that can do 0-60 in 6 seconds or less (plus more cowbells) at a 35k price tag ?
I think the shots taken at the bigs are justified.
I think the LEAF put the UG in Ugly.
I also have a son who I talked into leasing a LEAF (would never, ever buy a new one) becasue economically it made a lot of sense. ($99/month lease).
My daughter is about to buy a used LEAF (lola - IMHO you are spot on) and has a deposit on a Model 3.
The LEAF is a very good, al beit, ugly option. The economy, the handling and overall quality of a used LEAF (as long as you don't live in Arizona) is a great bridge vehicle.
The Leaf is a very good 2nd or 3rd car as a commuter car for someone with a serious commute. There's no doubt about this. I have put over 70K miles on ours and, compared to an ICE, they were virtually free.
However, the Leaf is not a good car. It basically supports Nissan's position in the automobile industry -- mediocre. The batteries degrade rapidly in hot weather (Nissan sucked it up and bought us a new battery). The infotainment system is terrible and hasn't been updated since it was new. The range is way less than advertised. Its fast charge isn't very. There aren't enough fast chargers. Nissan installed fast chargers choke when it gets hot and are at miserable dealers that are only available during business hours. It will never win any beauty contests.
I'll reiterate the positive though: it does make good freeway fodder, saving our Tesla for more worthy occasions.
A Tesla Model III for ~$10K more, however, will be a totally different story. I hope, for their sake, that Nissan is paying attention and makes a worthy EV. I appreciate their going against the grain by making a usable EV and selling it everywhere. They deserve some success but they're going to have to earn it. Nissan hasn't earned much loyalty and I'm sure most will be replaced with a Model III.
@mrdaniel said about Supercharging, "It's great, but you still have to spend 30 mins waiting to charge (admittedly only a few times a year, but still)."
The reason I highlighted the word "waiting" is I wanted to point out that in many cases you are not waiting for the Supercharger at all. Sure on busy holiday weekends some people have waited much longer than 30 minutes, but in most cases people find that they will eat, shop, use the bathroom, or grab a cup of coffee instead of waiting for the Supercharger. I have waited while charging late one night in Culver City after the mall closed. But, my wife and I had a nice little walk and I enjoyed keeping her warm from the marine layer. In Oxnard we took the "triplets" to Ben & Jerry's for an ice cream and did a quick pass through REI.
Of course not every SC site has something interesting like an REI or useful like a Whole Foods or tasty like a Ben & Jerry's, but a lot of them do. I'm lucky that I live in San Jose and my long road trips take me East to Yosemite or Lake Tahoe or South to LA or San Diego. Of course my short ones go in every direction, and in all of them I have several SC sites to choose among. While the Bay Area will likely stay at the leading edge of SC coverage, we also need to share the most too.
Check out your SC Map and figure out what makes sense for you to minimize your wait time. For example, Gilroy, Paso Robles (Atascedero), and Oxnard all have an In-N-Out right by the SC sites. I'm sure the SC in Santa Barbara won't be very far too. But in Santa Barbara I like Super Rica Taqueria. Now that's worth the wait!
Where is the In-N-Out at Atascadero? I have never seen it!
Why wait? Because I don't want to be limited to 87 miles per charge! That's why.
When they make the movie about "Who Killed the ICE Car?" it will be all about Tesla and what they started.
IMHO, untill such time that the Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt have access to a convenient & reliable fast-charge network, the Chevy Volt by a long shot (pun intended) is the best availalbe choice for those that want to drive an EV but don't want to wait for the Model 3 or that want an UMM3A (until my Model 3 arrives).
I say this having spent time with Leaf, Volt, and currently own Model S.
Hey my Focus isn't ugly, and it's not flagged in the pics as ugly. But I paid $42k for mine now $29. My lease residual is $29k after 3 years!
Also the Leaf is terrible in really hot or really cold env's as there is no battery care system for when it's too hot, too cold.
I test drove a leaf. Left on a 110 degree day with the air on and 39 miles of range (With the air on) Drove home to show my wife, it sat in the drive way (3 mile trip from dealer to house) then 2 successive 3 mile trips, then i got to drive it back to the deal with the air off and windows down as it Turtled 1.5 miles from the dealer.
Thats why I won't drive a leaf here. Besides my wife calling me when I was driving away, she was laughing terribly.
My story: My Prius of 10 years was a gateway drug to EV driving. I LOVED the fact you could drive 2 miles in EV, haha. I wanted more EV, less gasoline. While the rest of the world sat there in traffic idling, my Prius was off and 'zero emissions'.
My Leaf of 2 years (so far) is a gateway drug to Tesla. I LOVE driving all-EV, no gas, not a drop for 25,000 miles! But I want more. Thus the Model 3 reservation. Tesla will be giving me more. Nissan just doesn't have 'more' of what I want. And don't even get me started with how Toyota has betrayed me with stupid hydrogen...
PS The PNW is where the Leaf shines. Fairly nice climate, lower speed limits (both 2 lane highways and interstates), LOTS of DC quick chargers. I mean, just look at Plugshare. Two years and I've lost 3 kWh, per an aftermarket OBD-2 reader and iPhone app. So about 12 miles loss from an EPA rated 84 miles when new. The math says that's 14% loss. And if Nissan took Tesla up on their Supercharger network offer (as well as introduced a TMS)...I would consider staying with a potential 200 mile Leaf. But...Model 3 seems to be a no-brainer at this point.
elephantinabottle made a Friend of me by asking, "Question to Nissan : Why not build a pure electric car with 200+ mile with long distance driving capability that can do 0-60 in 6 seconds or less (plus more cowbells) at a 35k price tag ?"
+42! Exactly. The Ultimate Question for the Ultimate Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything about "What is a Proven Plan for Success with a Fully Electric Car?"
jjs: YouTube Fishbone Ugly [HrcjV8UzSoY]
finman100: +1! Kudos on entering the gateway!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Let's just shorten that question - Why drive a Leaf?
@JeffreyR Anecdotely you're right: people aren't waiting in their Teslas, save for maybe the last 10 minutes of charging before they go. I'm not knocking supercharging as I love it.
When you are constrained for time, say Wednesday afternoon on Thanksgiving to get to family before they go to bed, it matters a little more. As supercharging improves I think 80% charge will approach the amount of time it takes to fill up gas.
In any case, Nissan has a concept and it isn't unreasonable that they will make it happen. I trust ICE companies less than Tesla because Tesla always surpasses expectations, but Nissan has at least been serious about rolling out electric cars. Gotta love competiton.
It's not actually in Atascadero, it's in Paso Robles a few miles north. If you remember where that little outlet mall is, it's just South of there:
6000 San Anselmo Rd.
Atascadero, CA 93422
My ex has convinced my son that he doesn't like In-N-Out anymore, so we often stop for Sushi in Pismo now. It's a sit down restaurant and sushi bar. It's called Kanpai Sushi:
2665 Shell Beach Rd, Pismo Beach, CA 93449
The Italian Grocery next door has some nice deli and cold prepared food options. Neither of these options are cheap.
One other Sushi place we go to is in Paso Robles that has good bang for the buck. It's called Sushi Kokku:
Address: 630 1st St, Paso Robles, CA 93446
One last recommendation is Splash Café with locations in Pismo and SLO. It has Award-winning Clam Chowder. The last time we were at the Pismo location, there was a line out the door.
SPLASH CAFE IN PISMO BEACH
197 Pomeroy Ave., Pismo Beach, CA 93449
Telephone: (805) 773-4653 for Take Out Orders
Order Food For Delivery
Order Food For Pickup
SPLASH CAFE IN SAN LUIS OBISPO - MONTEREY ST.
1491 Monterey St., San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
Telephone: (805) 544-7567 for Take Out Orders
Order Food For Delivery
Order Food For Pickup
SPLASH CAFE IN SAN LUIS OBISPO - DOWNTOWN
893 Higuera St., San Luis Obispo, CA 93401
Telephone: (805) 439-2990 for Take Out Orders
Order Food For Delivery
Order Food For Pickup
As you can tell I go between San Jose and LA at least a couple times a year.
Ha, I guess it's actually in Atascedero after all! I just looked at the address. I always thought that was Paso. Shows you how much I was paying attention.
There's a place for this kind of informationhttps://forums.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/supercharger-tips-and-reviews
I just posted it there. Thanks for the pointer.
If Nissan released their concept IDS, 500,000 preorders?