Car salesmen at bottom of list for Honesty.

Car salesmen at bottom of list for Honesty.

"The most recent data available, from December 2015, puts car salesmen near the bottom of the list, ahead of only “lobbyists” and tied with “members of Congress” and “telemarketers” with only 8% of the country considering car salesmen as above average in honesty and ethics."

I think we've seen some of this here. LMAO!

andy.connor.e | 7 octobre 2016

Its pretty much any salesman. The only way a salesman can make effective money, is by making sales. And if he lies or deceives a customer and gets a sale out of it, he'll continue that practice. Pretty much any salesman is willing to lie or deceive the reality of something to an extent in order to get a sale. So of course they are going to be untrustworthy. There is no reason for the salesman to tell you 100% of the truth. That could jeopardize profits.

David N | 9 octobre 2016

Andyconnor wrote:
"Pretty much any salesman is willing to lie or deceive the reality of something to an extent in order to get a sale"
I think that statement is not true and unfairly casts ALL salesman as liars and deceivers.
I have purchased many cars over the years, many insurance policies, along with your typical home improvement (windows, doors and such) and have dealt with many salesman. I agree that salesman don't make money unless they don't make a sale, but there are salesman that like to have a clear conscious, that like to be able to sleep at night, and in a nutshell are, well, honest. I know, these are the ones I keep returning to,keep recommending. They realize "honesty is the best policy".
That's something hopefully we all heard from our parents.
I've learned in my years that If a purchaser does a little bit of homework on his end, coupled with honesty and sincerity, then when you deal with a salesman, his honesty and knowledge will quickly emerge. You'll find out real quick if the guy is a person of character or a smuck full of BS.
Sales people of character and honesty get my repeat business, the smucks don't. Believe me, I've had a few smucks thru the years, generally when I was younger (but not always).
But let's not lump good, honest people with the label of "any sales person will lie or deceive". If that's the case then perhaps we need to consider to look in the mirror.
Bad sales people are probably the cause of the old saying"buyer beware".
Anyway, just my experience. Hope that helps some people.

FactDoc | 9 octobre 2016

Anytime you go buy an EV you know more than the salesperson, so they make money for doing nothing. Just because of the lobbyist that hold the platform of dealership statu quo

Red Sage ca us | 9 octobre 2016

EVolution: A couple of decades or so ago, there was a chain of electronics stores called Circuit City. They had a very knowledgeable staff and kept huge binders in each section of the store that were publicly accessible and included the manuals for every piece of hardware on the showroom floor. So, you could fully educate yourself on which products best fit your needs right there on site, and consult with someone who would help you with things you might have overlooked. That was cool.

Then someone had the bright idea to remove that reading material from each station at the store. They then fired all the guys who knew everything about the best features. They hired guys who were salesmen first, people who would sell anything on the shelves to anyone at all. They would simply follow orders and if something was an absolute piece of crap, but they had a bunch of them in the back, it was their job to clear that stuff out. Further, they would steer just about anyone who entered the store to get a store credit card for even the most minimal purchase. It was no longer fun for a geek or enthusiast to go there at all.

In November 2008, right after the credit crunch that took place in September of that year, Circuit City announced they would be closing over 150 stores and filing for bankruptcy. By mid January 2009, Circuit City had started closing all their stores. I rather think that changing their sales tactics to be like car dealerships had a big hand in their demise. Though I'm sure things still 'looked good' to executives on a quarter-to-quarter basis until the bottom fell out.

Badbot | 9 octobre 2016

ask Circuit City if they can come back and collect Chevy. | 10 octobre 2016

For newbie's that got to this thread, you may be unaware, but Tesla does not have car salespeople. In the USA (and other countries) they have Product Specialists, who are not on commision. In fact if you try to buy a car in a Tesla store, they will walk you to a internet terminal to have you order the car online (which you can do at home as well).

carlk | 10 octobre 2016

A coworker who is an engineer told me he worked as a new car salesman at a Ford truck dealer during the great recession when he could not get a job for a year. He said it's tough to be a car salesman. They got an average of $100 commission per car sold and the top salesman could sell only about 15 cars a month. I'm sure none of them like the job either.

Haggy | 10 octobre 2016

If you give people commissions or quotas, then you create a conflict of interest. An honest sales person increases the chance of repeat business and is more helpful to a company in the long run. Any commissions should be based on customer satisfaction rather than sales, and one of the questions in a satisfaction survey should be whether anybody gave you wrong information.

Red Sage ca us | 10 octobre 2016

Haggy: +21! Precisely. I used to work for a company that panicked after the financial hit of late 2008. So in January 2009 they completely revamped their entire 'incentive program' for outside salespeople. Then they were surprised when half the sales force had quit within six months to work for competitors instead. The upper management and ownership blamed the salespeople, as if what affected the company was their fault. But with the credit crunch, the Customers of our Clients no longer felt as 'well off' and stopped spending hand over fist and living beyond their means. You can't just keep selling stuff to people who already have more than they need and no one to sell it to.

Ponyotoro | 11 octobre 2016

@David N,
There's no such thing as an honest car salesman. It's like saying not all thieves steal. I've been to many different dealerships in several different states and they all have the same tactics and goal. They will do whatever it takes within their rights to squeeze every dollar they can from you. As a buyer(sucker), if you've felt anything positive out of a dealership deal it is because they did a good job convincing you so. Dealerships are about maximum profits. Buyers with deep pockets don't really notice this negative stigma as much as penny pinchers or lower income people do. They size you up as soon as you enter the lot of showroom. They make you believe that they are on your side and will work hard to screw their own business to get you the best deal you can get anywhere. In the end, the house always wins and you are just another sucker that bought into it. Good luck getting anything more out of them after the sale is final. After that they no longer give a damn about you and will avoid any further communication with you. You are now the service department's problem for the rest of your ownership. There's no such thing as an honest car salesman and dealership. A good magician can trick you into believing the unbelievable. Those that can't either must get good at it or find another job. I will never deal with a dealership ever again. I'm sure the majority of drivers out there agree with me and those who don't are the blind to the truth or are involved in the dealership mafia.

makobill | 11 octobre 2016

Visit Carmax - best 'dealership' model I know of for 'honesty'. I'm not sure of their incentives, but they are closest to the pin.

The stealership model is an antiquated relic. Its not a modern approach and its on the ventilator frankly. Someone just needs to pull the plug...

lilbean | 11 octobre 2016

I used to work in occupational medicine doing pre-employment physicals. We could see which patients were applying for the car salesman jobs as soon as they opened the door.

tedirelan | 11 octobre 2016

While I agree sales people can phase out and customers would be overall fine with that, they don't lie as often as the stigma portrays them to. They can't really. As was already mentioned, customers have the internet on them all the time. It use to be that the only way you knew if a car was a reliable car was that the salesperson told you. Now every customer can check the VIN for vehicle history and find the best price for that type of car anywhere in the world. Sales people know this. The best thing they can do now is provide good customer service to keep the income coming in.

KP in NPT | 11 octobre 2016

The Tesla model of direct sales without "car salesman" has been praised by virtually everyone who has gone through the process of being a much better experience than car buying via a traditional dealership. Tesla's product specialists are charged with educating the customer about their cars - when you choose to buy, you know you are getting the same price as the next guy for a new car. You don't walk out feeling dirty and manipulated. Based on those who have already bought a Tesla, I would say customer prefers this model, and it is the car dealerships in various states that are trying to stop it. Why would that be? Because if they have to change to compete, it will upend their entire model.

When buying an BEV, it is especially important to do your research since it's a learning curve for a new BEV buyer. There is so much information, misinformation, and unfamiliar technology that it's a lot to take in.

Many people interested in BEVs, and in Tesla, come to this board to get information. Which is why, on this board, it is important to correct those who come here posting inaccuracies, twisted facts, or speculation as fact.

Red Sage ca us | 11 octobre 2016

Below is an excerpt from a letter to Senator Darwin L. Booher, 35th Senate District, Lansing MI, by representatives of the U.S. Federal Trade Commission dated May 7, 2015.

... Finally, advocates for a categorical ban on direct sales argue that direct-selling manufacturers would charge higher prices to consumers. In their view, consumers benefit from the "intrabrand" competition between dealers of the same brand of vehicle. In other words, rival dealers in the same area that sell the same make and model of car compete for business and competition between them can lower prices for car buyers. Manufacturers, they maintain, would not be subject to the same competitive pressures.

This view is inconsistent with modern economic learning and with the Supreme Court's widely accepted observation that strong "interbrand" competition—competition between rival manufacturers—can suffice as a source of downward pressure on price. 23 Manufacturers in a competitive market face acute pressure to keep prices low to keep buyers from shifting their purchases to a competing manufacturer's product. Thus, forcing firms to use inefficient distribution methods can result in higher prices and other forms of consumer harm. ...
Marina Lao, Director
Office of Policy Planning
Deborah Feinstein, Director
Bureau of Competition
Francine Lafontaine, Director
Bureau of Economics

tstolz | 12 octobre 2016

Anyone who understands business knows middlemen add cost to a system ... the OEM argument is ridiculous.

That said .. sales staff are used in both business models ... arguably at about the same staffing rate even or higher for Tesla. Clearly it isn't sales staff that Tesla has a problem with.

The main reason Tesla doesn't want 3rd party dealers in their value chain is they don't add sufficient value to the consumer. Tesla believes in running lean ... they don't believe in profiting at the sales level and they believe it is unethical to profit from servicing cars ... and this is where dealers make most of their money.

Red Sage ca us | 12 octobre 2016

If the Microsoft Surface Pro 4 did not exist, would the Apple iPad Pro 9.7 suddenly get a $1,500 starting price? If the Jaguar XJ, Lexus LS, Maserati Quattroporte, Genesis G90, Acura RLX, BMW 7-Series, Porsche Panamera, AUDI A8 L, and Mercedes-Benz S-Class all evaporated from the US market, would the price of a Tesla Model S suddenly rise to a $150,000 minimum? The 'independent franchised dealerships' insist that the danger in allowing direct sales by manufacturers for anyone at all is that it will 'destroy the franchise dealer system'.

“The North Carolina DMV, in an order signed by Administrative Hearing Officer Larry Greene, said there are 'at least three independent dealers' in the market that would be able to own and operate a Tesla dealership 'in a manner consistent with the public interest,' meaning the exemption would not apply.”

Uhmmm... What about in the interest of actually SELLING the CARS?!? So, Tesla currently has one 'dealership' in North Carolina. There are 6 Infiniti, 6 Lexus, 8 Acura, 10 AUDI, 11 Mercedes-Benz, 12 BMW, 41 Cadillac, 35 Lincoln, and 68 Chrysler dealerships in the State. But the flagship vehicles from all those manufacturers are outsold by the Tesla Model S nationwide, and probably in North Carolina as well. That's with Tesla being outnumbered 197-to-1 by 'independent franchised dealerships'. Is it any wonder that they don't want to see a second Tesla location on hand?

How many fully electric cars are sold at those brands? Let's see... One BMW, and one Mercedes-Benz. How do those cars do in sales? The BMW i3 has been outsold 3.77:1 by the Model S this year, and the Mercedes-Benz B250e has been outsold 46.40:1 by the Model S. A car that costs several thousand dollars more than either of them.

You know what? That makes it seem as though people prefer to purchase electric cars direct from the manufacturer, instead of enjoying the supposedly 'superior' experience of buying through an 'independent franchised dealership'. Please explain how it is in 'the public interest' to mandate that they purchase products in a manner that is inconsistent with their preference?

It seems much more likely that with currently lagging sales for vehicles that are to be the direct competitors for the Tesla Model ☰, the 'independent franchised dealerships' are attempting to secure a place at the table, so they can get a slice of the pie when it arrives. Because when the Model ☰ arrives and outsells the BMW 3-Series, AUDI A4, Acura TLX, Cadillac ATS, Alfa Romeo Giulia, Infiniti Q50, Jaguar XE, Lexus IS, and Mercedes-Benz C-Class -- using direct sales and fewer locations -- the 'independent franchised dealerships' will not have a leg to stand on in their protests that "Tesla would sell more cars..." by using them. No. Tesla does not need those guys at all -- and never will. The only fully electric cars from any manufacturer that outsell any ICE vehicle on the lot manages the feat against cars that have been Discontinued.