Guess the guys at Edmunds will have to reevaluate their last assessment of the MS now!
To be honest, the extra warranty doesn't remove the issues. It just make buyers less worried about having to pony up for the cost. Edmumnds and consumerreports won't change their opinon on the lack of reliability, simply because the warrantly changed. What they might do is mention that it's less of a buyer issue than it was in the past.
But a warranty still means your car is in the shop.
"To be honest, the extra warranty doesn't remove the issues".
OK. Let's be honest.
1) Reliability why does it matter?
- It can have impact on safety
- Repairs may have financial impact
- Time lost at repair shop
Tesla will score on any of these metrics way better than any gasoline car.
With the three above covered one can measure "reliability" as much as he wants. Assisted cup holders not functioning? Who cares?
"Edmumnds and consumerreports won't change their opinon on the lack of reliability".
2) Consumer reports haven't assessed the reliability. They are waiting for responses in autumn. I strongly doubt their assessment will be similar to Edmund's.
They've already said what they wanted. Stock went up.
This article found 15 metrics in which Cadillac ELR scores better than Tesla...
Oh well! Apparently none of those matters.
They could provide infinite pancakes too, or doughnuts for the police interceptor version.
Me I'd like infinite craft beer.
The ELR is an Extended range Hybrid while the MS is purely Electric...Think that's comparing apples and oranges here...
Sprite commented, "It just make buyers less worried about having to pony up for the cost."
I wasn't worried at all.
@ A1 " http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cadillac-elr-versus-tesl... "
One of the things on that list that neither car has is autonomous breaking. It's standard on cars like the BWM i3.
Sprite, I don't care about autonomous braking. At all.
There is a very good report report by David Noland at Green Car Reports about the drive unit replacement problem:
@apsley "There is a very good report report by David Noland at Green Car Reports about the drive unit replacement problem: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093713_tesla-model-s-drive-unit-rep..."
Ugh, 32% of all Tesla model S drivetrains replaced after 18 months and 6% multiple times, is nuts.
It's good that there is extra warranty now, but jesus christ, that's a lot.
"I'm on my fifth drivetrain at 12,000 miles," reported another. One poor fellow was on his sixth"
The drive unit issue is WAY overblown... the vast majority of drive unit replacements were precautionary due to noise. Can you imagine how many IC engines would be replaced if the standard was complete silence?
@Al1 10 of the items on that list are optional on Model S, so they are not "metrics" they are just about pricing. The top one on the list is actually that you are saddled with an ICE and a gas tank, hardly a plus. As for the other four, I am surprised they didn't throw in lighted mirrors and coat hooks too.
Screw Edmunds and consumer reports, having the drive train and battery warranted the same is super. Most of the drive trains 'replaced were fine, it was a shim that was needed. It never made sense that the motor warrantee was only half the battery.
Do other cars have such a long warrantee?
I think Hyundai and maybe Chrysler have something like 10 years/100,000 mile warranties... That's about the closest, really. I don't think any Tesla enthusiast cares.
You can never trust a comparison list presented by one side in a sales pitch.
So what is the ELR's "Bose active noise cancellation" technology? I assume Tesla would have some noise cancellation, just not a Bose perhaps.
Induction motors are notoriously reliable and maintenance free. If designed without flaws. Tesla might have had a few design flaws. When fixed, the motors will purr for far longer than any car will really be driven. If that is fixed in warranty, that will be a non issue, but the inconvenience and negative
blowback in terms of consumer perception are real and substantial issues.
That Cadillac Ad is hillarious !
They should list the "Bose Noise Cancelling" as "Not Necessary" in a Tesla.
"Premium Audio" is standard ? Then how is it "Premium" ? Sounds like "Standard Audio" to me. And the Standard audio in a Tesla is comparable, ro better than the Cadillac anyway. Finally, why is Sirius XM the determining factor for a worthwhile audio system ? Slacker/TuneIn have XM beat hands-down. It should say "Audio System with Internet Radio" with the Tesla having it Standard, and the ELR as Not Available.
"Premium Leather Seating Surfaces" ?! Meaning they couldn't be arsed to make the entire seat leather... making the Tesla leather seats superior.
"Remote Keyless Start"... yeah, too bad Tesla doesn't have that...
"Seat/Mirror Memory Settings" If they had listed Seats and mirrors separately, the Tesla has Seat Memory Settings standard as well.
What in the world is a "Safety Alert Seat" ?! Is that like a Playstation's DualShock controller ? How would you notice it with the engine rumbling your seat anyway ?
It's a shame they left out the fairly obvious (and more commonly looked for) features, like, oh... I dunno... 4 doors ? 1/4 the cost of fuel ? Faster acceleration ? 5+2 Seating instead of the ELR's 2+2 seating ? 4x the cargo area ? No required maintenance ?
You know... pretty much every REAL selling point in a vehicle ?
Well put & said. +1
CEO Elon Musk: “If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines… then our warranty policy should reflect that.”
The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.
Moreover, the warranty extension will apply retroactively to all Model S vehicles ever produced. In hindsight, this should have been our policy from the beginning of the Model S program. If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then our warranty policy should reflect that.
To investors in Tesla, I must acknowledge that this will have a moderately negative effect on Tesla earnings in the short term, as our warranty reserves will necessarily have to increase above current levels. This is amplified by the fact that we are doing so retroactively, not just for new customers. However, by doing the right thing for Tesla vehicle owners at this early stage of our company, I am confident that it will work out well in the long term.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
I don't understand how it will affect earnings...
Only a dozen or two cars have even achieved enough miles to be out of warranty. Even if every single one of them needed a replacement, it would be a drop in the bucket.
I love how the 'Green Car Reports' article was sponsored by... Arco (in my case).
This is just PR stuff. Tesla has produced enough cars to know how often the drivetrain actually needs to be replaced, and improvements have been made (shims where needed) to make them last. Tesla is reasonably certain that they will not need to replace too many, and issues like the zip tie will not require a recall, but will most likely be addressed at a standard service appointment unless the customer requests it earlier. In the long term this will have no impact on the balance sheet. Confidence in the brand and perceived reliability is certainly going to help sell more cars although demand is not a problem.
Tesla, like any company that makes a product has to keep a certain amount of money aside for warranty work. Since they have essentially doubled the warranty period for the drive unit, theoretically they will need to set aside more money as a precaution.
Yeah, there's a hit on the books to profit, even though it's too early for any actual costs to appear.
LeonardD wrote, "This is just PR stuff."
Well, thank Beejus for that! ;-)
Seriously, I always felt that all elements of the Tesla Model S drivetrain would last for decades, whether under heavy use, or light duty. I'm glad this one concern has been addressed for the few who were not as certain of the viability of an electric motor as I have been. Now I hope we can move on to a point where everyone becomes aware of the fact that planned obsolescence should no longer be the norm in automotive manufacturing.
Just bought one today...Model S 85...Currently drive an F250 diesel pickup 12.5 MPG
The payment is less than my current fuel cost....
Thanks to Chris Olson of Austin, Texas who happened to be in the store when I went in. Tesla should pay this guy a commission, or discount his next vehicle!
I have time to upgrade to air ride, enhanced audio and performance model 85...thoughts?
@mikezilai, you're going to get a range of opinions, and it all depends on what you want in a car. I specifically did not want air suspension or sunroof to avoid potential problems and maintenance issues with them. But for some people, those are must-have features.
I suspect Elon has a couple of production-ready innovations on the ready, which are very likely to reduce the costs drastically, in order to expand the warranty like this.
This move increases my confidence that Tesla prices will come down soon and make all Tesla cars much more competitive.
@mikezilai Thanks to Chris Olson of Austin, Texas who happened to be in the store when I went in. Tesla should pay this guy a commission, or discount his next vehicle!
Tesla Talk is its own reward. We love doing it and our families appreciate that we aren't doing it to them.
I, for one, paid in advance for 8 years of warranty because of the advantage on the warranty for the battery. Now they are giving that away for "free". Why do I feel that I now have paid for something that others get for nothing. Yes, I get other things covered beside that which Tesla is giving away, but still there is a part of what I paid for that has been completely devalued. :(
The so-called 'drivetrain warranties' on cars have been the biggest automotive smokescreen ever since they were devised by Lee Iaccoca for Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Eagle... That which is termed the 'drivetrain' is essentially all the components they know damned well will never, ever break.
Do you get a ten year, 100,000 mile water pump warranty?
Do you get a ten year, 100,000 mile alternator warranty?
Do you get a ten year, 100,000 mile oil pump warranty?
Of course not. Because those things are designed to break.
Yes, the Tesla Model S should have had a lengthy warranty on the drive unit and battery pack from the outset. But no one who purchased an extended warranty/service agreement is out of a dime. Because those are the very components that simply will not break any damned way. The warranty still covers all the same things it would have covered in any case. Either it is worth it to you, personally, or it isn't. That is up to you to decide. That's why it is not a mandatory purchase.
The battery w/o the extended warranty was 8 years or 100,000 miles. With the warranty it was unlimited miles. So yes, I paid for something for which has no value because Tesla is giving that away for FREE.