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"Out the door" price poll

"Out the door" price poll

What is the maximum "Out the door" price you are will to write a check for (before rebates). Please be realistic.

160 mi base MS 57400
Destination 1950
Options 10000
Tax/Fees 7000

Out the door check = $76,350

stephen.kamichik | 5 novembre 2011

This information should be kept confidential. If TM knows how much we are willing to pay, they will see to it that no cars produced will cost less.

Schlermie | 5 novembre 2011

160 Mile Base MS:
$57400

Destination:
$825

Options:
$16000

Tax/Fees:
$7000

TOTAL:
$81225

BYT | 5 novembre 2011

160 Mile Base MS: $57400
Destination: $825
Options: $3000
Tax/Fees: ???
TOTAL: ~$61000

And that is still a huge ouch for me as I don't have that kinda cash laying around!

EdG | 5 novembre 2011

@stephen.kamichi: this is just another of those posts that are under-the-table attempts by TM to get info out of us that is in our best interests not to share.... It's like all those that say "they're going to charge at least $102000, so get used to the idea". I'd rather TM worry that high prices will be too scary for us than find out that "enough" of us are willing to part with our life savings..

At least while we're telling Google everything about our lives, they're providing a service for us..

stephen.kamichik | 5 novembre 2011

If they charge at least $102,000, I will cancel my reservation and buy a Nissan Leaf.

Mycroft | 5 novembre 2011

"If they charge at least $102,000, I will cancel my reservation and buy a Nissan Leaf."

If you don't buy a Signature edition with the pano roof and Sport package, then you have nothing to worry about.

JohhnyS | 5 novembre 2011

I wonder if Tesla will waive the delivery fee if I take delivery at the factory? It is about 400 miles to our home in Southern California.

Larry Chanin | 5 novembre 2011

I wonder if Tesla will reduce the destination fee if I take delivery at the store more than 200 miles from our home.

If I'm not mistaken conventional destination charges are to get the car to the dealer. In the case of Tesla I'm guessing that there will probably be an additional charge to get it to the customer's home. I'm hoping to avoid that charge by picking it up from the store.

Anybody with a roadster that can tell us how this works?

Thanks.

Larry

stephen.kamichik | 5 novembre 2011

I am wondering if there enough charging stations along the way so that I can drive mine from the factory back to Montreal.

Mycroft | 5 novembre 2011

A moot point Stephen. If you pick it up at the factory, then Tesla has to collect California sales tax on the transaction even if you aren't registering it in California. It's one messed up state.

gjunky | 5 novembre 2011

This is the minimum amount possible and the max I can afford...

Car57400
Destination825
Before Tax58225
Tax @ 9.25%5385
Total63610

Discoducky | 5 novembre 2011

I'm sorry for those that have to pay tax on their EV or don't have a rebate to cover the tax.

I'm guessing about $10 to $15K in options and would like to take delivery in Freemont, if we are allowed to watch it get built and have the destination charge waived, while not paying CA taxes, which I don't think you would as it will be registered in Washington state where there are no sales taxes on EV's.

Thumper | 6 novembre 2011

Hoping to do the same as you Discoducky. Train to Fremont, register car in Oregon and drive it home without sales tax. We have none in Oregon for those who don't know. Income tax is high though.

joefee68 | 6 novembre 2011

Average "out the door" = 69,917.
N = 5
Median = 67,400
I did not include anyone who did not specify a specific "out the door" number.

Mycroft | 6 novembre 2011

After long discussions over on the Tesla Motors Club forums, we've pretty much ruled out picking the car up at the factory because of California's strange tax rules. As I said earlier, California makes *NO* allowances for registering the car in a different state. They require Tesla to collect the tax on all sales taking place inside the state.

Kallisman | 6 novembre 2011

I thought sale won't take place in the state of California, but at the local Tesla store close to where u live. Then u just help Tesla transport the car to your home.

Mycroft | 6 novembre 2011

It's possible that Tesla might be able (on paper), to make it look like you took physical possession of the car in your home state. We won't know until they're actually delivering them if they'll be willing to do that.

dborn @nsw.au | 7 novembre 2011

Why not buy the car in your home state? Where you pick up the car then makes California tax irrelevant since you have not bought the car there. I have checked with the Australian dealer, and I can pay portion of the purchase price in the USA with Us currency and the remainder here

Mycroft | 7 novembre 2011

Because California's tax rules state than the purchase location is where the physical transfer takes place.

Like I said, it's possible that Tesla will have a way around this. But don't count on it.

Kallisman | 7 novembre 2011

@Mycroft
So according to California tax rules you don't have to pay tax on whatever u purchase in the state, as long as you take possession of it outside the state borders? Or does that rule only count as long as the state make money on it?

Mycroft | 7 novembre 2011

"So according to California tax rules you don't have to pay tax on whatever u purchase in the state, as long as you take possession of it outside the state borders?"

Exactly. If you buy something from a California seller who ships it to you in another state, then you don't have to pay California taxes. But if you buy it and take possession of it in the state, then you do.

Brant | 7 novembre 2011

BTW
For those interested in picking up the car at the factory
Sales tax in Fremont, CA is 8.75%
ouch!

Volker.Berlin | 7 novembre 2011

Sales tax in Germany: 19%. OUCH!!

Robert.Boston | 7 novembre 2011

Volker, an interesting comparison chart here:
http://www.photius.com/rankings/tax_burden_country_ranks_2009.html
showing the tax burden of you Berliners cf. to counterparts around the developed world. Unfortunately for you and for our U.S. export business generally, U.S. corporations pay high taxes (compared to any other country in the developed world), while you pay higher personal income taxes and high VAT. Tesla has to price its product to pay its U.S. taxes, which only increases the already-high VAT you pay.

stephen.kamichik | 7 novembre 2011

Sales tax in Quebec is 15% (includes federal & provincial sales taxes). OUCH!!!!

Volker.Berlin | 8 novembre 2011

Robert.Boston, thanks for the chart. I guess I'll move to Qatar. :-D

Timo | 8 novembre 2011

@Volker.Berlin, don't forget the ~20% VAT in top of that sales tax.

Volker.Berlin | 8 novembre 2011

Timo, actually I thought VAT and Sales Tax refer to the same thing. I may be wrong for other countries, but at least there is only one of those beasts in Germany.

Timo | 8 novembre 2011

Ah, in here we have all kinds of sales taxes for cars, not only VAT. That is why all cars here cost about 50-100% more than what they cost in US. The green party just recently increased some of the taxes in order to "punish" people from driving, which is stupid considering that 99% of the landmass here people need cars to do their daily business, and only causes people to use more polluting old cars longer. Add in the fact that gasoline costs a bit over $8/gallon and you get pretty pissed of car enthusiasts. For Diesel and Electric cars you need to pay yearly "power source tax" (loosely translated) about $550 for car Model S weight, for gas car you don't ("temporary" tax from year 197something).

Average age of the car here is about 12 years.

I think if US next government would add those taxes for cars there would be pretty fast revolution with no mercy for the person who invented such taxes.

EricK | 8 novembre 2011

57,400 with basic features comparable to the 5 series or E-Class for a base car. At the end of the day, I’ll pay 10% more for a tesla, but off setting that is the following:
A. Lack of financing or higher rates compared to BMW or E-Class financing
B. Lease options
C. Anxiety associated with:
1. Am I buying a DeLorean
2. Risk of being the early adopter, is this a palm or am I buying an i-phone
3. If I own the car, what is the resale value three years down the road? BMW and E-Class are more definable.

psirnes | 8 novembre 2011

Here in Norway there is a high sale tax on new cars. A BMW 530i is about $135 000 – 145 000 depending on extras. Gas is also heavily taxed (even though we have lots of our own oil in the North Sea and are pumping up all we can, making discussion on limiting the use our gigantic oil reserve fund to avoid overheating the economy one of the main political discussions ) – so the price of one US gallon of gas is about $9.4

Fortunately the authorities have so far seen the advantage of having people moving from ICE to EV and have introduced the following incitements several years ago

• No sales tax or VAT on EV ( Taxes accounts for about 50% of the new car price for ICE),
• Free passage on toll station
• The yearly “road tax” is $71 as opposed to $507 for ICE
• Free parking and charging on public parking lots
• Free ticket on ferries between public stem roads
• Half tax compared to ICE if you employer gives you free use of a company owned car
• Extra bonus per km reimbursed travelled when you use your own car in official travel

Thus a Tesla S will be about half price compared to ICE cars with the same size/performance/luxury factor. That is why I already have reserved my Signature (EU SIG 53), hoping to get it before the government changes it’s scheme for EV taxation

Volker.Berlin | 8 novembre 2011

psirnes, I guess you are lucky that you do not have auto industry in Norway. Germany is very hesitant with EV incentives, and of course that's partly b/c the local auto industry does not have anything to offer, i.e., any incentives would benefit only foreign manufacturers -- obviously not feasible in Germany.

This is sad b/c IMO German auto industry needs a hearty kick in the ass to stop designing EVs for failure and start to develop EVs that are actually worthy of a German car maker. That's one of the main reasons I am going to buy a Model S (I'll drive by the headquarters of the German auto makers one day and ask why I had to buy an American car...), but sadly that means that I'll have to pay the full price (I would choose a smaller/cheaper/less luxurious car if I had a choice).

Mycroft | 8 novembre 2011

Wow, those are some great incentives! Just the gas taxes alone would be more than enough incentive for me.

Tesla should do quite well in Norway!

EricK | 8 novembre 2011

One more thought: Below is a nicely built 5 series, with STD warrantly etc. Add the net difference between electricity and gas, this should be solid reference point for buyers on price.

My 528i SedanDetails2.0 liter, 4-cylinder engine
Rear-wheel drive
See all standard features .Base MSRP$46,700.Black Sapphire Metallic$550.Black Dakota Leather$1,450.Dark wood trim$0.Sport Package$3,600.Head-up Display$1,300.Navigation system$1,900.Destination & Handling:$875.
BMW Ultimate Service™
A suite of premium benefits that are included at no cost with all new BMW Vehicles.4 Years/50,000 Miles WarrantyIncluded4 Years/50,000 Miles Maintenance ProgramIncluded4 Years/Unlimited Mileage Roadside AssistanceIncluded4 Years/Unlimited Mileage BMW Assist™ Safety PlanIncluded.

Total MSRP as Built$56,375

NigelM | 8 novembre 2011

Larry Chanin | NOVEMBER 5, 2011
I wonder if Tesla will reduce the destination fee if I take delivery at the store more than 200 miles from our home.

If I'm not mistaken conventional destination charges are to get the car to the dealer. In the case of Tesla I'm guessing that there will probably be an additional charge to get it to the customer's home. I'm hoping to avoid that charge by picking it up from the store.

Anybody with a roadster that can tell us how this works?

Hi Larry,

The Roadster destination charge here in FL was fixed at $1,950. It didn't make any difference if I picked up at Dania Beach or if they delivered it to my house.

Nigel

stephen.kamichik | 8 novembre 2011

In Quebec we pay a luxury tax each year if car costs more than $40k. Sales tax is 15%. This leaves me little money to add options to my model s. I reluctantly will have to sell my 1976 Datsun 280Z which I purchased new in 1976.

pbrulott | 8 novembre 2011

Great question

When I put my 5K reservation down payment, I had in mind:

$57,400
+$1,500 destination (this is something that Telsa could innovate by lifting it - god I hate this fee - everybody has to pay it - it should be illegal not to include it in base price
+$1,500 leather
+ Quebec sales taxe of 15% (which would be offset by the $7,500-$8,000 EV credit)

Result = about $60K... EV make so much sense in Quebec where electricity is cheap and green.

That is still pretty expensive for a car. At least for me. I am hopefull that since Tesla is bragging that its Model S compares to high end BMW and Audi, it comes pretty well equipped even with base model.

Stephen K, I didn't know about this luxury tax, are you sure? I don't pay anything today for my big SUV worth > 40K. Thought there was a motor size yearly tax (greater than 3.5L but no impact on EV :-))

P

mcornwell | 8 novembre 2011

I was thinking my bosses $97K BMW 750i was expensive when he got it a few months ago, until I started adding up the costs of the Model S that I want. With the Sport package (est $10K, but I'm thinking it should be somewhere around $5K from what I hear that it entails) the large battery required for the Sport, plus a pano roof and a few small options, this car (before tax credit) is going to be close to what his 750i is.

Yes, the cost of ownership will be less, but since I'll only be doing 3000-4000 miles a year in the Tesla, it's not saving me that much over my current ride (Audi S4).

Given that I could get by with the 160 mile battery (commute = 3.5 miles, I might do 18 miles in a day including child drop off, drive to work, out to lunch and then home), I'm going to have to think long and hard as to whether I want to spend the estimated $30K more for the Sport Package. It will either be a lowly base model or a fully loaded car for me.

Mycroft | 8 novembre 2011

C'mon, you only live once buddy. You know you want to blow that 750i out of the water and make him green with envy. Plus think of all the additional trips you can take when they're practically free with an electric car!

stephen.kamichik | 9 novembre 2011

@pbrulott.......There is supposed to be a 1% luxury tax added to the registration fee of the vehicle until the vehicle is six years old. Don't you have to pay this when you renew your plate registration? Please let me know.

toto_48313 | 9 novembre 2011
pbrulott | 9 novembre 2011

@ SK and toto

Thanks for this info, you are right this will be adding to the cost of ownership. I didn't notice on my current renewal... It will be aroud 150-200$ a year.

Still need to be reassured on 2 things anyway: upcoming pricing structure and winter qualities of the car

When is the American roadshow passing by Montreal? couldn't make the Toronto one last week.

P

stephen.kamichik | 10 novembre 2011

According to the Toronto office, the car will be coming to Montreal next year when they have a test-driveable car.

JTSEA | 11 novembre 2011

After seeing the Beta version in the Seattle showroom last weekend we are now QUESTIONING for the first time our Tesla S deposit and awaiting purchase. We are concerned about: 1)The back seat head and foot room 2)The interior quality and 3)The options pricing.

We realize no car is perfect nor can it please everyone but we might be embarrassed to let our BMW, Lexus, & Mercedes friends sit in the back seat of our Model S. At 5'11" the back seat did not feel comfortable for headroom or for my feet under the front seats. Maybe they can change the pitch or heigth of the back seat but I think it sat a bit low already (The width was fine. This observation was made with the panoramic roof so I worry a solid roof will be worse for headroom and that it might make you feel even more cramped. Now that the panoramic roof is indeed an option I worry what they are going to charge for it.

The exterior is wonderful. I love the mirrors but hope they fold.

Tesla are you listening? Make some tweeks & announce options very soon.

JoeFee | 11 novembre 2011
Mycroft | 11 novembre 2011

JTSEA, if your six foot friends are frequently in the back seat of your sedan and Tesla doesn't somehow increase the headroom, then yes, you may want to reconsider your purchase. I very rarely have anybody sit in the back; I use it mainly for storage.

The mirrors do and will fold.

ckessel | 11 novembre 2011

Odd. Several folks over six foot have said the back seat was just fine after rides at the Oct event.

Mycroft | 11 novembre 2011

I think it depends on if you unconsciously scrunch up or if you unconsciously keep your head under the pano roof part of the top. All I know is that the top of my head did brush the ceiling at one point.

Maybe I have a tall trunk. :)

brianman | 11 novembre 2011

At the store openings, keep in mind that the driver seat is being moved a lot (well, at least by me) by people trying out the seat positioning controls.

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