Anyone notice the performance plus package.
Upgraded linkages etc.
Also, thanks for confirmation that retrofit refers to current owners as we suspected. This car is so great already but it is awesome that they are making mechanical upgrades as well as software upgrades available.
Does anyone know what the rear camber specs will be with the new setup?
Maybe a bit off topic, but anyone know if Tesla has quoted a price that only includes the suspension upgrades? I think at least half the cost is the new combo with tires/wheels.
@EMDoc, I have e-mailed the ownership team with exactly that question! Will post when and if I get a reply about it.
@BYT - Just heard back from ownership. Looks like they won't let us do the suspension bits separately! At least not yet..maybe we need to be more vocal about it. The 9500 doesn't even include the newer dampers or front/rear stabilizer bars! The only thing I would do at this point is replace the following as stated by Kublai:
2 x Rear lower control arms with revised stiffer bushings
2 x Rear upper links with revised stiffer bushings
I will ask my service advisor if he can order these separately and just add them to the car. I see no reason why we must upgrade the tires/wheels.
Re: the comment above "I haven't heard many people complain of wheel slippage on good roads so why would wider tires lower the 0-60" ... my tires slip all the time if I floor it with my P85 and 21s. Am I the only one? Then again it's still pretty cool out, I'm looking forward to the nice hot sticky rubber summer...
There seems to be some changes done to the Performance Plus package:
1. Looking at the Options and Pricing page, the 21" wheels no longer "included", but now "required". When the package is selected, the pricing page automatically adds $3,500 for 21" wheels in addition to the $6,500 for the package.
2. The Options and Pricing page states that choosing Performance Plus package improves range by 8 - 12 miles. I do not remember seeing this before. I am also wondering how this package improves range when Tesla range calculator states that 21" wheels reduce range??
Elon send another follow-up mail. I'm extremely impressed with this. It is refreshing to see such an approachable, passionate and responsive CEO!
Sorry for the error. Should be fixed soon.
Perf plus is over and above the 21" wheels, so pretty expensive, but very worthwhile. Probably the best upgrade since Model S start of production.
I'm sold :)
Has anyone driven the car with and without the Performance Plus package to know if it really makes a difference? I got to test drive a Model S Performance that did NOT have the suspension upgrade, and while the car was awesome, I want more of a sports car feel in the handling.
When I drove the 85 side by side with p85 there was a noticeable difference. It is hard to decide if this upgrade is worth the price though. Haven't seen any specs on how the handling is improved (lateral g forces etc). Any thoughts.
DC@Tesla, are you comparing the non-Performance 85kw to the Performance model, or two Performance models, one with the new suspension upgrade ($6500) and one without? I'm interested to know if there is a noticeable difference between the last two...
Nobody has received or even driven the performance upgrade - it was just announced!
That is correct. I just got off the phone with sales and they said the same thing. I will definitely hold off until I have more information, as I want more of a "supercar" feel, as they say in their description. The sales guy also said they have talked about more supportive seats. I would like to see seats that have adjustable lateral supports that you can bring into your sides to really hold you in place when you corner. Don't know if that will ever happen, but I'm really hoping!
Yes, I was comparing a non-performance 85 with P85 and was immediately sold on the P85. The P85 rode a lot better even while cruising. I am at the limits of what I would spend for this car and can't decide if supposed better handling of the perf plus is worth the added cost.
It will be worth it to me if they can really improve the handling. In testing by Edmunds, the p85 made it through the slalom at a pretty slow 66.8mph with 0.86G on the skid pad. To put that into perspective, the BMW SUV X6M with 500lbs more weight and a much higher center of gravity, did 68.6mph and 0.91G. Faster are also the Panamera GTS, BMW M3 and M5, Audi A6, Cadillac CTS, etc. With the really low center of gravity on the Tesla, if they get the suspension right, it should blow them all away.
Actually, Elon's car was a "test vehicle" for the P+, and it was used in a few demo/test drive events, so a few people may have experienced it.
Update from Elon himself (the first part refers to the headliner issue I had):
"Yeah, I have now insisted that even the tiniest (this was obviously not tiny) change to the car requires a physical inspection and buy off from me. The headliner change shouldn’t have happened.
The exact price of the P+ retrofit is still tbd. It would be $6500 plus whatever the labor cost is. Unfortunately, this is a major operation, so labor cost is high -- $8500 to $9500 is about right.
Tesla cannot do partial upgrades, as we have to test the heck out of anything that we provide as a manufacturer for regulatory compliance and liability. However, as an end customer, you are allowed to do whatever you want to your car, even if not FMVSS compliant."
So, I gather we can order parts separately and have them installed at the service center, just not part of the entire package (which I'm ok with). For example, just order two separate rear wheels if need be. Or just the suspension bits.
Seats definitely need better lateral support, and the foot rest has
to be replaced, it's way too narrow.
It's still a lot of fun to drive, a perfect match for Bay Area roads ;)
You may be able to order the parts you want, but a Tesla service center wouldn't be able to only install part of the package; it'd be a home garage job because Tesla has to stay safety compliant in its service centers.
I assume many garages would be more than willing to install the parts. They must be under different safety standards, or else the aftermarket would not be near as big for cars.
To follow-up on my earlier post (page 2) I've asked Tesla for the clarification on how Performance + package achieves 8-12 miles improvement in range. Tesla's response below.
Thank you for emailing Tesla Motors. You have a good question and we would like to explain. The Performance Plus Package comes with Michelin Pilot Sports. These tires are made of a compound that allow for greater rolling distance which will improve your range. The tires that come with the Model S Performance without the Performance Plus Package are Continental Extreme Contacts, these tires are made of a different compound that does not have the same level of rolling distance as the Michelins.
That is so strange. BMW is more than willing to install whatever parts you choose, especially if bought from Tesla. I do appreciate not having to deal with a "dealership" though.
I wonder whether this increased range is compared to what you would otherwise get with 21" wheels? In other words, the Performance Plus gives you the range you would get with 19" wheels.
Increased rolling resistance should reduce range, but improve grip and acceleration.
@DouglasR | APRIL 16, 2013: In other words, the Performance Plus gives you the range you would get with 19" wheels.
So probably getting Michelin Primacy™ MXM4® tires would allow a 19" wheeled cars to get even better range than they already do.
P plus does not include 21 wheels!
As of yesterday!
That is a strange comment for Tesla Motors to state saying that the Model S P85 comes with Continentals, and therefore has more rolling resistance. My P85 has Michelins from the factory???? and I don't have the P Plus package. Hmmmmmmm
Timothy F, I think they are talking about specific Michelin summer tires that are being used for the cars with Performance +, as opposed to the Continentals that come with 19" wheels.
Brian H, rolling resistance and grip are different things. Low rolling resistance and good grip are therefore not mutually exclusive.
So basically its a $10,000.00 Package. Is it worth it? I feel I was a little conned into it. When I asked Tesla reps I was told the 21 wheels it was included in the $6500. I guess I should have added up the totals. I misread the cost totals and should not have assumed. I'm finding out more and more I cannot completely trust Tesla reps. $10K seems quite pricy for a small performance upgrade.
@TINO F I think they had some supply issues with the 21" Continentals for a period of time and substituted in the (superior IMHO) Michelin PS tires for the lucky few who took delivery around that time.
The Michelin PS cost about $1000 per set more than the Continentals per tirerack.com, and I also was lucky enough to get them on the P85 when the 21s were included. I would expect with the wider rims on the P+ package, you would lose the ability to rotate the tires at 6000 miles and would need to replace the rear tires much sooner than without the P+ package. I would rather preserve the ability to rotate the tires than have the incremental improvement in handling which would further increase the odds of me getting pulled over while having fun on open twisty roads.
Not a consideration for Elon; he just wanted to match the McLaren.
I too got the Michelin PS on my 60 (noN-perf, of course) with 21's instead of the Continentals.
I live in a part of the world where I need to shift to studded winter tyres for several months each year; does that mean that I shouldn't even consider the performance plus package, as it requires the 21" tyres in the rear?
It doesn't require 21" wheels, you can use 19" wheels in the winter. You cannot however order the suspension upgrades seøarately, you need to order the 21" wheels also. Several Norwegians did not like this limitation either, also finding this package overpriced.
It doesn't require 21" wheels, you can use 19" wheels in the winter. You cannot however order the suspension upgrades separately, you need to order the 21" wheels also. Several Norwegians did not like this limitation either, also finding this package overpriced.
So, for the sake of total clarity: when it says in the Design Studio that the P+ Package "requires 21 inch wheels", does that only mean that I can't order it without also ordering 21" wheels, while it is still possible to shift to 19" wheels in winter?
OK, I see now that that's exactly what you said, sorry for repeating the question. Thanks!
@Svante....I asked this same question to tesla rep. According to the Tesla engineers, the upgrade to the PP package needs the 21" wheels with wider rear wheels to get the most out of the package. You can put 19" wheels/snows on it when needed but the design is set up to maximize handling with 21" wheels/tires.
My 'S' is in production and I did upgrade to the PP. I figure that I will be eating lots of hot dogs/mac & cheese to afford the upgrade.
@Svante....And you can NOT order the PP with 19" wheels.
I see. Until this package came up I had planned to go with the Performance with 21" wheels and in addition order an extra set of studded 19" winter tyres for use in winter. Then I wasn't sure whether it would even be possible (regardless the price) for me to choose the Performance Plus (with the new 21" inch tyres) and still shift to 19" tyres in winter, but now I understand that it is in fact possible. For a moment I thought I didn't even have to consider the PP (since being able to shift to studded tyres is absolutely required where I live) but now it seems like I'm back to having to make the hard choice... :-)
I live in Delaware where we do get some winters where there is considerable snow from Jan-early March. I intend to get the PP package and buy a second set of 19" wheels with some all season tires or maybe even plain old snow tires.
I also inquired about getting the 19" wheels with TPMs on them from Tesla. To date, they do not sell their 19" wheels. I intend to get them from one of the online places..like tire rack.
It also appears that you can get 20" wheel/snow tire sets that will fit this car.
Speculation always seems to fill a knowledge gap. We do not know a lot about the P+ package so let's speculate some more.
I've provided a first attempt at a factual rating for each of my comments. Lets call it a BS factor with 0 being an absolute certainty and 10 being complete fabrication.
(2) I built a set of upper rear arms to adjust the rear suspension. I could not locate the vendor for the suspension bushings so I built tools to press out the original Tesla bits and press them into my new arms. I bring this up because someone mentioned above that the retrofit kit consisted of upper and lower arms with new bushings. The geometry is reasonably aggressive in the rear (thus my suspension change) so I am assuming the P+ changes are bushings only. If that is the case, then simply supplying the bushings for swapping out would be the way to achieve the desired result at a fraction of the cost.
(7) The sway bars can not be swapped….. The mounting point separation is fairly large so there is very little stress on the mounting points. Everything else under MS is stout to say the least so I suspect the bar mounting points can accept the stresses driven by larger ID bars. I would not think mounting points would be the reason you can not do the bars. The rear bar does pivot to the front of the drive unit and simply may not be removable without dropping the whole drive assembly. If this is the reason for not doing a field upgrade of the bars then one would simply need to cut the existing bar to remove it then use a splined replacement upgrade. This approach is used all over the racing world by people much more anal than the average MS owner.
(3) Most street cars are built with understeer or push. This means that the front will tend to slide before the rear when cornering. The reason for this is simple; when you get into a corner with too much energy the front wheels will start to slip. Most people's natural reaction is to either turn the wheel a bit more (obviously does not work and will be instantly apparent) and/or lift from the throttle. Lifting transfers weight to the front tires and allows the car to turn. In control terms this is called a damped system. The response increases stability. Conversely, lifting off the throttle when the back end steps out likewise transfers weight to the front tires which increases rotation. This is obviously a non-stable situation and will soon have the driver looking at where he just came from.
Increasing rear stiffness with bushings will increase transitional stability (the rear will take a set faster and feel more responsive) at the expense of mechanical grip. My guess is that the larger rear tires are added to return the lost mechanical grip and keep the car balanced towards understeer. I suspect my preference will be the same tire all the way around (for ease of rotation) and a more neutral car. This would be food for thought when considering if you wanted or needed the larger rear rims/tires.
(6) The dampers can be swapped…… MS uses the MB air spring/damper units and there is no reason that I can think of that you can not simply swap them out. I've considered having the dampers re-valved but would like to know if Tesla has increased the spring rate of the air springs before heading down that path. The real caveat for me is if Tesla made a change in their stability control firmware for the P+ package.
Please feel free to adjust my BS factor or otherwise correct me. I've been promised a call from chassis engineering to discuss my changes and the P+ package. I'll post what I'm permitted after the call.
Just spoke with a friend who is ordering a P85+. Apparently, you have to order the 21" wheels (3.5k) as a prerequisite to the performance plus package (6.5k) even if you plan to swap out the wheels or tires. While I understand the need to manage liability for after-market, safety, etc. that does end up being wasteful - of customer money and resources.
Also @admjr, I ordered new wheels and tires from tire rack and bought tpms and center caps from the Rockville service center, but unfortunately center caps are too small for my wheels. So, FYI, if you want the Tesla logo center caps, you need a 2.25" opening in the wheels.
Does any know if the performance package plus (ppp) with the 21" tires, have same driving range as non ppp with 19" tires. Or does it have slightly longer/shorter?
If both options have the same range, the ppp with 19" tires would have longer driving range, than non ppp with 19"?
It looks to me like the Performance Plus package is 6500 + 3500 extra in cost. I ordered my car the 1st of April and the sales person did not let me know of that option. I am trying to add it now but it looks like this does cost an extra 10k. Does anyone know the answer to this question? In my previous order the 21 inch tires/rims were no extra charge.
Also, it looks like there is no option for a sunroof with the performance plus package? Can anyone help me out with this? Since I ordered the sunroof (have not taken delivery) are they not allowing the sunroof with the performance plus package due to stability issues? Anyone?
I also noticed that there was a destination and regulatory doc fee of 1170 on my order from the beginning of April that is now included. Does anyone know about this?
I have a multi-coat red delivery window May 8th-May 22 with everything on it including pano roof, rear facing seats, carbon fiber, black interior, twin charger, hwpc, tech, audio. So I hope it does come with the pano roof. I will post if that is not the case.