Anyone notice the performance plus package.
Upgraded linkages etc.
Sorry I left out it is performance plus
I ordered performance plus with sunroof. No problems....
Also the extra wide 21 inch wheels are included in the $6500 price.
So is the cost 6500 or is or is it 6500 + 3500 (for the 21 inch tires)for the performance plus package? My 21 inch tires were included in my previous order at no cost.
Well, I guess I was wrong. I just went to design studio and pretended to order another car. When I do cash, and then click on the Performance Plus package, the price goes up $10K instead of just $6500K. A little deceiving....
The performance Plus requires 21" wheels, that are automatically added once the package is selected. So the price is 6500 + 3500. The additional feature included in the Performance Plus in addition to the usual 21" wheels is wider rear tires:
"the rear tires are 20 mm wider and staggered for improved acceleration on low grip surfaces"
I thought I was going to be charged an additional $6500 for the better suspension and the promise of better handling. Steep price tag, but I decided to go for it because I want "super car" handling. For an additional $10,000, the Performance Plus package had better blow me away!
cb9: Thanks for the info about the wheels. I also got a 19" wheel and snow tire set from Tire Rack. They came today....I won't have the car for another month :)
Actually, I got the tire/wheel set because this time of year most of the real snow tires..like Blizzaks go on sale.
As many have posted: The Total cost of the P+ package is 10K..steep but as many others have pointed out if you go from an A4 to an S4 or a 330 to an M3, etc..the price tag jumps at least that much.
My car is 'in production' and had the panoramic roof with the P+ package. Since I am being charged for the pano roof I assume it will be there.
I'm calling them tomorrow, not sure why the old price included the 21 in tires and the new one does not. I understand that the new tires are wider in back but it seems like there is no credit for what used to be free. Also, not sure why they charged for car delivery before and now its included. I am going to need to get clarification.
Talked to Tesla, looks like I can change my order and get the performance plus. The problem is I did get the 21" inch wheels for free before and now I need to pay for them so the real cost is 6500 + 3500. Don't think I am going to opt for the Plus unless someone who has it can tell me that it's worth the extra. It does not change the look at all (except for the fact that the rear tires are wider) and the performance is such a great car already. Not sure it's worth it.Anyone get it yet?
Not just wider rear tire but you also get the stickier Michelin PSII instead of the original Conti.
Nobody has gotten one yet (except Elon). The first batch according to Tesla (I called yesterday) is rolling off the assembly line in second half of May.
That means my car will be in the first batch. That makes me a little nervous. I hope they get it right....
We are in the same boat here rdalcanto. Even if they screw up (unlikely since they've been testing P+ model for atleast 6 months) I think Tesla is the kind of company that will fix it until it's perfect.
Sorry if this is a repeat question. Is the P+ package wider wheels or wider tires on the same 21" wheel as P? The site (Options page) verbiage, makes it sound like the former: "the rear tires are 20 mm wider".
End of line date for the P+ package I ordered is May 12th. Since I am on the east coast it will be late May before I see it. I am not worried about the quality control on them. If anything, they will probably be more closely monitored earlier in the run. Rdalcanto and KOLl200...happy motoring! Let me know when you actually get yours and let me know what you think.
Thanks Admjr, will do!! I'll post a full review and comparo with my 2008 M3 sedan :)
Actually, your quote indicates it's the latter. Wider rubber, not metal.
I will certainly post a review after I receive my car, and compare the handling to my 911. There is also a P85 5 minutes from me, and I'm sure we will get together so we can compare the performance plus side by side with a regular P85.
@heems and Brian H: Both are wider. This is Teslas reply to me on that exact question:
“Performance Plus includes the normal 21" wheel up front and a wider rear wheel: 21x9" vs a normal 21x8.5" rear wheel. All wheels are wrapped in Michelin PS2 tires (Michelin Pilot Sport 2: 245/35R21 ; 265/35R21). Both silver or grey are offered.”
Looking forward to your review, rdalcanto!
A lot of activity on TSLA, looks like can be ordering P85 ahead of schedule, input on Performance + would be most appreciated.
That will be an interesting review (comparing to 911 and non-P+).
On a side note I wonder if the car will have a new P+ badge. No it's not silly.
I wonder if the service loaner cars being put out now will be P+. Or mere P85s. ;)
I talked to tesla and since I s one of the original holders of a reservation they are not charging me for the tires so the performance plus price is 6500.there is no badge and nothing on the exterior or interior that will distinguish the car cosmetically that will show is a per +. Does anyone think it will help the 0-60 time?
Wider and stickier read tires likely will help 0-60 time some.
Hi, Jeremy Snyder here, I run the southwestern USA for Tesla. I noticed the comment referring to the pricing error on the website regarding Performance +.. The upgrade is infact 10,000 for the upgrade and wheels, not 6500 for anyone as mentioned above when ordering the performance plus. Sorry for the confusion.
Shout-out to lolachampcar:
Man, you have consistently posted the most coherent, knowledgeable, and well considered comments on this forum. I generally have to read them two or three times in order to keep up, but, they're all high on value. Thanks for bringing your expertise to the masses. I appreciate it.
Thanks for the kind words.
I passed along the MS damper part numbers to Bilstein who confirmed that they are "crimped" units and can not be rebuilt. Apparently there is an optional unit (which can be re-valved) for the front but we are not so lucky on the rear. I've asked for details on the front option and for the Bilstein tech to think outside the box for a rear solution. I've also asked for the fitment information for both the front and rear dampers.
On the bushing side, I got a couple of leads for original equipment rubber bushings. I'll be following up with them this week. If we are real lucky, I will find a vendor that can source both standard and P+ spec rubber bushings for our MS'. Most these vendors do not want to work with little guys doing these types of projects but I'm holding out hope.
Lastly, I got back a favorable water jet labor quote last week. I should have material, final machining and anodizing costs this week. If we could find suitable bushings, I would think the links could come in price comparable to the standard Tesla parts.
Bars are really the last thing on my list..... I'd would like to tighten up the car and check out the balance with the same tire all the way around before thinking about bars.
Lastly, if I have not posted it elsewhere, here is a link to FMVSS 126 which is the stability control requirement for new vehicles. It really sheds some light on why cars are produced with soooo much understeer, why manufacturers are slow to consider any changes, why those changes cost so much (compliance verification costs) and perhaps even why there is so much negative camber in the rear. I love the part about using a steering machine to reproduce the yaw test inputs. It would be a riot to go along for that ride :)
That is crazy. At the track, there is nothing worse than a lot of understeer....
not crazy at all if you think about it... Most people's normal reaction if there is a problem is to lift off the throttle. Lifting transfers weight to the front wheels which makes them work better (thus solving an understeer problem). Conversely, if a car is over steering and you lift - oops, the front gets even more grip and the back comes around.
Manufactures set cars up so that problems go away when you lift off in fear.
Has anyone taken delivery of their Model S Performance with the performance plus package? Interested to see if there are any reviews.
For those in the Orange County Area:
If someone gets their car with the performance plus option, I would like to a comparison with you against my P85. I think we could make a great day of it. Any would-be takers?
Im delaying my order until I can hear some reviews. Hopefully someone is able to post a comparison soon!
Saw the P85+ today! Looks great! The badge on the back shows "P85+"
Looks like the P85 but tires are just a teeny bit meatier, but not too noticeable. thumbs up! It's rolling off the lot! Be prepared to see them on the road.
I would like it if the MS had even wider tires. I was following a P85 today and to me they did not look meaty enough for such a wide car. Plus I imagine that having bigger feet would help take corners even faster. The + package has only slightly bigger rear tires.
Is there a physically enough room for really big (and I mean big like the Porsche Panamera Turbo)? Would this change the geometry and mess up the handling?
Development of the P+ package will give you an idea of just what a manufacturer has to go though to certify suspension changes. I would not expect to see any more suspension work from Tesla for a minimum of 6 to 12 months and this includes changes in tire size.
Does anyone know if you can have the wider rear rims on the front as well? I would like to keep all the tires the same size. I get the point of them being staggered but I would like to have wider rims up front as well and would love to have a bit wider in the back. Ive heard of people putting aftermarket 9inch wide on all four, so I know it can be done.
@italianospeed | MAY 7, 2013: Does anyone know if you can have the wider rear rims on the front as well?
I think the limiting factor is more the tire width. People with 255 tires in the front have mentioned they have some rubbing when turning the wheel more than 80% and backing out.
@ Alex K - How tall of rim? Or maybe that doesn't make a difference depending on the whole suspension/wheel well area and available clearance. Going with a taller rim I could definitely see that happening, but 10 more millimeters and rubbing? That is really tight, I wouldn't be surprised if the 245 could rub as well. I guess I will have to wait and to inspect myself.
@italianospeed | MAY 7, 2013: How tall of rim?
By "taller" do you mean diameter, because that would make no difference since the tire profile shrinks and the total tire/wheel circumference stays the same. If you mean the width of the rim, then some of ones that were rubbing were 8.5" (which is like the Tesla 21: wheels). Here is a thread regarding rubbing: http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/19-model-s-wheels-and-tires-1400...
There are also several discussions on TeslaMotorsClub.com regarding rubbing. For example, http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/14167-I-think-my-tires-are...
Crap. Really disappointed here. Edmunds just tested a P85 without the suspension upgrade. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-tesla-model-s-track-...
It clearly states that they had previously tested a P85+ last year. If you look at last years test, the tires are the wider Michelins. http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2012-tesla-model-s-track-...
So it looks like the P85+ does the slalom in a pathetic 66.8mph, and the P85 does an even worse 63.6mph. Both are worse than several SUVs on the market.
Hoping reviews are really good by regular drivers or I may have to cancel my order and keep my 911....
I alluded to the "P85+" in my posting earlier
But people are saying that test car may not be the final production P85+ ... i guess time will tell
How fast do you really think you need to corner? seriously the car is awesome, it is a sports sedan not a race car. I wish I had the option of performance plus, but I am happy with the P85. When the new roadster comes out 3-4 years from now I would expect true sport car performance
@Aleksandyr - at least as fast (cornering) as my M3. For 120k it better be.
I think there are some slightly out of place expectations on this car. It is still quite large and heavy. To be comparing it to the much smaller and lighter M3 and 911 is just plain unrealistic. Can you say apples to oranges?
Isn't it closer to the size of a 7 series? OK somewhere between a 5 and 7 at least.
Seriously people. Get a grip.
Agree. The 911 is a very different car. There is no way any car the size of the MS is going to out corner a 911. Just be happy that the 0-60 times are almost identical. That is a feat in itself! If you want a 911, keep the 911. If you want an amazing sport sedan, the MS is it.
@gone - I have a very strong grip and I'm sure I'm not alone in my expectations.
I don't recall, have you actually taken a test drive rdalcanto and KOL2000?
If so, did you like it or not?
Maybe you'd better wait until you can test drive a P+. It's obviously not "that" much better than an P. I mean they can only do so much to it can't they? I mean within the laws of physics.
If you're expecting it to match your M3 in the corners I'd say not so much.
Relax dude. I test drove the p85 and loved it. Cornered well but not quite an M3. Hoping it will match M3 in p+ form and I'm not alone - do a search.
Anyway my p+ will be delivered in a few weeks and I'll let you know.