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Will Tesla make a 450+ mile battery for a Model S or other vehicle produced in 2019.

Will Tesla make a 450+ mile battery for a Model S or other vehicle produced in 2019.

I'm ready for more driving range. I have a 2013 Model S with over 117,000 miles on it and I would like to eventually upgrade my car or get an upgrade battery for it. I still enjoy my car but more distance is something I liked on my previous car that would travel up to 550 miles. Also, I live in Texas and I'm starting to see more vehicles at Supercharging stations and having more range on a battery will help me to not have to wait for a charging stall in the future.

Mathew98 | 23 octobre 2018

So you would drive 7-8 hours without taking a break?

Why not plunk down $50K deposit to get the new Roadster that is rated for 600+ miles?

PrescottRichard | 23 octobre 2018

I’m sure at some point there will be a 400+ mile battery. Maybe 400 will be the number that relieves range anxiety for the majority of people.

Given that charging (at Superchargers) is fast between 20-80% I believe a battery that gives you 350+ miles at 80% would be plenty (for most people). I know there’s new SC tech coming, maybe that will change but I’m skeptical.

My use may be different than most people’s in that just about everywhere I need to drive in town is at most 12 miles away, but on occasion I drive to Phoenix, Flagstaff, Sedona which are 60 to 100 miles away. I hit a SC every time I go to any of these places.

I can see the appeal of driving 150-200 miles without hitting a SC but so far that hasn’t been a big deal.

tes-s | 23 octobre 2018

Not in 2019.

TeslaTap.com | 23 octobre 2018

In addition to the roadster, Tesla will offer a Semi with 500 miles of range (hints it may be more). So two choices for 2020!

redacted | 23 octobre 2018

Semi should have wicked acceleration without a load. Good visibility too. Show your neighbors who's boss.

Mathew98 | 23 octobre 2018

Wooza. A Tesla Semi as a daily driver, minus the trailer.

Gru? Where are your minions?

TranzNDance | 23 octobre 2018

An autonomous Semi that can tow an RV could be a fun way to travel.

Darren_78 | 23 octobre 2018

I have CDL drivers license. So, a Semi is an option I thought about but the Tesla pickup truck is more practical when it's produced:) However, a Semi would have some fun reactions or maybe shock, not literally, in my neighborhood association.

So far, the Supercharging stations have worked out well for me but the other day is probably one of the first times I have seen someone about to wait for a charging stall in Texas.

For me, more battery range would give me more options when to charge and where. Also, to avoid traffic times.

The Roadster is an option but I'm hoping Tesla will surprise us in 2019:)

Maybe, 2019

carlk | 23 octobre 2018

Roadster has the huge battery power only because it needs that for the acceleration and high speed. Don't think anyone would need more than 350 mile or so battery just for the range unless if you have to go a long way before the next charger. That's not the case for Tesla.

trevor58 | 23 octobre 2018

@Darren. I too have a 2013 S (161,000). 220 miles at 90% charge. I also would enjoy more range, if available, especially in the winter when the temperature attacks that 220 and makes it more like 165.

azswcowboy | 23 octobre 2018

@Prescott AZ Blue - Hi fellow Arizonan :) I think extra range would be an advantage if reasonable in cost -- but Elon is right that most of the time it's just weight to carry around. Like on my daily 70 to 100 miles of Phoenix commute/errands per day it would be a waste.

That said, at the end of the week if I'm heading to Flagstaff it means that I'm going to have to supercharge probably twice since I've already taken alot out of the battery. So it would be handy to cut that to once. I have a Model S 75 so I don't have the largest available range already -- and yeah I'm not really able/willing to pay for the extra range currently.

Would some people pay for it -- no doubt. I think it will happen when the S/X switch to the 21070 cells the M3 uses. It's ~20% increase in energy density so that would enable more range without extra weight. Wild speculation - it will come in response to Porsche releasing the Taycan -- maybe a car close to the model S in specs. Then Tesla will move the goal posts...

bp | 24 octobre 2018

If any changes are made to the battery packs for S/X, it would likely be to shift to the same battery technology as the 3 (and potentially lower production costs for the 100 battery packs) or to support V3 supercharging (for faster charging).

With Tesla's push to profitability, seems unlikely Tesla will introduce an even more expensive battery pack for the S/X, and instead focus on driving down the costs of the current packs - especially if they lose the US $7500 tax credit and are competing against other manufacturers that will still have that credit.

minervo.florida | 24 octobre 2018

Tesla has said a redesign is for 2021, if they can make enough 2170 batteries, they will go to the new battery, it is much better and more profitable. However it will involve substantial changes to the battery pack for the S/X.
Right now they cannot make enough 2170 cells for everything. It will be better SOON.

jordanrichard | 24 octobre 2018

Is it possible that the reason the Model 3 sits a 1/2" lower than the S is due to the 2170 batteries being taller, meaning the pack is "thicker".

I also believe the redesign is set for 2020. The Model S is on a 8 year design timeline.

TeslaTap.com | 24 octobre 2018

@jordanrichard - I figure the 3 is lower due to the tires - 18" on the 3, 19" on the S, so 1/2" radius difference would explain why the 3 is lower. (P.S. I've not verified the 3 is lower, just assuming you know).

Bighorn | 24 octobre 2018

No

And EM is denying any redesigns as company policy as recently as yesterday.

The semi will be popular with rappers.

Bighorn | 24 octobre 2018

@Tap
That’s not how wheels work. They all have the same radius. Smaller rim, taller rubber.

Bighorn | 24 octobre 2018

Between models, it’s all about the combination of the two wheel components and suspension choices.

Darren_78 | 26 octobre 2018

@Prescott AZ Blue. In Texas, I take regular day trips from 220 to 320 miles. 400 miles would be a pretty good number. I would buy a battery upgrade or a new Tesla vehicle if they have it in 2019.

@ Mattew 98. For me, it's also about being able to spend more time visiting a friend out of town or participating in or watching a track event without worrying about charging before or after on a long day trip drive. I could do the roundtrip without having to charge. I would enjoy that. @minervo.florida "It will be better SOON." We're getting closer.

@trevor58. I agree when it gets cold the range gets attacked. You have done some driving too. Hopefully, 2019 will see something new concerning more range. I like to be optimistic:)

@azswcowboy. Yeah, it will be nice when we get the new 21070 cells or better. Also, I think Tesla may do something in 2019 to keep the competition in check.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Also, I have a really good Tesla car which I'm thankful that I took a major plunge when I bought it as it was three times as much as any car I owned before.

Darren_78 | 26 octobre 2018

@Mathew98 (correction)

akikiki | 26 octobre 2018

Darren_78. Ain't gonna happen, bud.

jordanrichard | 1 novembre 2018

That "article" is pure speculation. You can't use history as the bellwether for upgrades. There is a huge difference between making available an upgraded battery for a car they only make 2500 of, versus how many Model S's...........?

ktslab | 1 novembre 2018

Just make trim Model S and/or X with 450 miles+ range, I'll be the first one in line to trade in for the longer range model.

But realistically speaking, I think Tesla might need a new generation of battery technology as the # of increased cells will increase the weight & size (?) of the vehicle significantly which also reduces the range at the same time.

Ddowns2050 | 1 novembre 2018

I would buy a longer range battery. It isn't that I drive 8 hours without stopping but I do drive on one route about 280 miles round trip where I'm out of the car for about 4-5 hours and then have to drive about 15 miles out of the way to charge to get back. This actually would come in handy many times on round trips where you have to charge to get back. It is just inconvenient. I still have one gas vehicle that has over a 500 mile range and I like that but, would much rather drive the Tesla.

jpcollins9 | 1 novembre 2018

My 2015 S easily gets 250 miles with my driving habits. My 2018 X easily gets 290 miles. My bladder gets 200 miles maximum! Range is not an issue for me.

jamesguan117 | 2 novembre 2018

I think the best solution would be if Tesla incorporated graphene in their batteries so that you could supercharge at 600 miles per hours plus without battery degradation. You can only fit so many batteries. I bet there would be a market for people who wants to opt out of the frunk and have extra batteries at the front or back which could be added on aftermarket by simply removing the frunk covers or something.

akikiki | 2 novembre 2018

jamesguan117, I think the best solution for Tesla is do continue doing what they are doing and you should do what you are supposed to be doing. And that does not include trying to tell Tesla how to build batteries.

Stiction | 4 novembre 2018

When better tech becomes available saving weight will be the first reason they get used.
Perhaps some slightly longer range model options might be produced (as a nod to the folks in super cold places)

My .$.02

SP2019 | 19 août 2019

It is 2019, any updates on this? I hear the new version of Model S "Raven" has been introduced.
Will Model S hit 400 or 400+ mile range this year?
450 range will take me straight to that Tesla dealer and won't mind dropping $86K for a brand new one.

Bighorn | 19 août 2019

Raven is 370. Done for the year.

EVRider | 19 août 2019

450 miles is a long way to go without stopping. Do you really need that much range? Not many ICE cars can go that far on a tank.

PrescottRichard | 19 août 2019

Not so much for going 450 miles without stopping, this is how I look at it-

Having 300+ miles available to you between 20% and 80% would mean quicker charging when you DO stop at a SC, less need to stop at a SC, and PLENTY of reserve for those occasional long waits on highways because of a wreck that closes the road for years. Well, hours. There are roads like this in AZ where you are just plain stuck if you are unfortunate enough to be behind a good wreck or a a trailer spill of rebar, etc.

So 450 would be there if you need it, but everyday use of 360ish between 20-80% would be great. Also consider that RATED miles does not = real world miles. Having a car rated at 450 miles might yield a lot of drivers around 300 miles in that middle 60%.

Does that make sense? I think a 400 mile battery would give this kind of peace of mind too just because it starts with a 4.

2015P90DI | 19 août 2019

@PRESCOTTRICHARD +1

It's not all about being able to drive straight through for 400 or 500 miles. But, with Tesla producing 500,000 cars per year, superchargers are going to fill up quick, especially on peak travel days. The extra range, regardless of if you want it or not, would be very helpful in avoiding the need to occupy a supercharger stall, even if you need to stop to eat or use the restroom. With more range, basically half the amount of charging needed, frees up the overload at the superchargers.

Would also be good for those that don't have the ability to charge at home every night. Those people are turned off by not being able to charge daily and the thought of having to find a supercharger or other charging source every 250-300 miles. Doubling the range might convince more of the people in that group to make the switch to EV since they wouldn't have to be inconvenienced as often to go find charging. 500 miles for most people would get them a week and a half or two of driving without having to charge.

inconel | 19 août 2019

In the coldest winter months I have seen up to 40% losses so a max range of 270 miles out of 450, then using only 80% of that range as mentioned here for charging speed and we have about 220 miles per leg.

TeslaTap.com | 19 août 2019

News flash - Tesla has offered 400+ miles cars since 2012! With an S85, just go 35 mph in 70F and you to can easily get more than 400 miles of range - likely 430 or so. With a Raven S100, 500 miles should be doable.

@2015P90DI - Rather than doubling the range, Tesla chose to double the charging speed with v3 Superchargers and new cars. As V3 rolls out, it reduces the time spent at Superchargers. No need to double battery size, which is quite expensive and would half sales, since production is battery limited.

PrescottRichard | 19 août 2019

Ha, funny stuff TT. Try going 35MPH on I17 and not get killed.

I hear what you’re saying (well, typing) but you know that as soon as it is feasible and affordable that range will happen. V3 is actually an argument for more capacity as those crazy fast charging rates only happen for a short time when the battery is low.

Of course batteries will have to be more energy dense & affordable before we get that kind of range, but it will happen. I’d say anything more than 450-ish miles would be overkill, unless you tow something or are a long haul truck.

No doubt these things will happen over time -

- More enegery dense / lighter batteries
- Cheaper batteries

Add to that wish list-

- Safer batteries (pretty safe already, but why not?)
- Better cold weather efficiency
- Better battery life when using fast charging
- Sustainable / recycle concerns
- More efficient motors, tires, inverters, et al. Get more out of every watt

I’d be happy to give up FUSC and just charge at home when doing 200+ mile round trips to Phoenix were there an affordable alternative.

And believe me, if anyone can get more than rated miles out of a car, it’s me :) I used to get 50-60MPG out of my 2010 Prius.

I’m tired and rambling, sorry! Can’t wait to see what ‘they’ come up with in the near future to check off items on my list. We’re already pretty impressed that I can charge my car at home using solar power and drive all over AZ.

DonS | 19 août 2019

It may be less important for the S, but X and Y need much more range for hauling. One of Tesla's strong points is the very low drag, but most trailers tow like a brick. One recent test showed energy consumption tripling with a trailer. That is not surprising considering the trailer was wider, taller, and less streamlined than the X tow vehicle.

bp | 20 août 2019

A reasonable pack size for almost all drivers is enough to support 3 to 4 hours of high speed highway driving. Assuming charge is kept between 10-90%, the current S will go about 290 miles of rated range - which is getting close to enough for 4 hours of driving even at speeds above 70-75 MPH on most roads. Assuming Tesla provides another increase in range with new packs next year capable of supporting V3 supercharging, the S range should be enough.

However, since the X gets less range - and can be used for towing, an even larger battery capacity would be needed. Practical range (10-90%) is currently 260 miles - and with towing around 120-150 miles, which is less than 3 hours between supercharging stops, too short - especially if the trailer has to be unhitched for charging.

hsuru4u | 20 août 2019

With SC network who cares really? And if you charge at home as well. I like taking breaks on travel to other states alot. Stretch legs and eat or just chill for a bit. No biggie for me. Without a network i would say hec yea its important.

Pungoteague_Dave | 20 août 2019

An X pulling its full trailer load capacity can barely go 100 miles. Just sayin

TeslaTap.com | 20 août 2019

@Pungoteague_Dave- Wouldn't a typical ICE SUV suffer the same dramatic range reduction? Pulling a huge brick through the wind can't be great for MPG either.

Bighorn | 20 août 2019

@TT
No, because of the relative efficiencies. The ICE is carrying a lot more energy (gasoline is 33.7 kWh/gal) because it's so inefficient to start with. If the X has a baseline efficiency of 400 Wh/m and the trailer adds 800 Wh/m of drag, you've cut your mileage by 67% with an efficiency of 1200 Wh/m or about a 100 mile range. OTOH, if the baseline efficiency of your work truck is 2600 Wh/m (13 MPG), then the addition of the trailer drops the efficiency 24% or about a 3 MPG drop i.e. 10 MPG. So your 38 gallon tank can go 380 miles instead of 494.

TeslaTap.com | 20 août 2019

@BH - your analysis may be right on, but we should be comparing an ICE SUV dragging a trailer vs. an X dragging a trailer. No SUV I'm aware of has 38-gallon tank - most have less than 20 gallons, but higher MPG. The other numbers are hard to relate to. If the milage is cut by 67% in the X, I don't see why with the same trailer drag on the SUV wouldn't have it's MPG cut by 67% too. The engine efficiency should have nothing to do with it? I'm likely missing something.

Bighorn | 20 août 2019

The engine efficiency absolutely determines the added relative effect of drag. If we use a Chevy Suburban for example at 20 MPG and a 31 gallon tank, you'd have a comparable baseline efficiency of 1685 Wh/m i.e 33.7 kWh/gal/20MPG. So a 32% reduction in efficiency with an 800 Wh/m drag (1685/2485) or 13.6 MPG and a range of 420 miles.
The Raven X apparently has an EPA efficiency of 324 Wh/m, so 324/(324+800) is a 71% drop in efficiency, so rated range goes from 325 miles to 94 miles when towing a trailer as modeled above. My friend has been trailering a camper behind his X and he says his efficiency is about 1200 Wh/m when he's driving in the mountain west and he has about a 90 mile range.

TeslaTap.com | 21 août 2019

@Bighorn - Thanks, that make sense. Essentially, the vehicle that has the worst efficiency is least affected by towing.

Looks like we have another new FUDster derailing various threads with the same made-up stuff. I hope Tkim does move to Porsche, although I feel sorry for Porsche.

Bighorn | 21 août 2019

Exactly, on all counts.

PrescottRichard | 21 août 2019

Hadn’t thought of it that way- crazy efficient cars take a bigger hit when dragging bricks. Makes sense. Wait, what about the Tesla Semi? I guess maybe we don’t really know enough about it to extrapolate too much, but it seems zippy and isn’t it using a few (I forget how many) Model 3 motors?

Getting back to the original question of this post- I’d be VERY surprised if Tesla had a 450mi rated vehicle by the end of the year. Would love it, but don’t expect it.

tes-s | 21 août 2019

"Wait, what about the Tesla Semi?"

Reportedly exceeding the 600 mile range estimate with 75,000lb load.

https://electrek.co/2019/08/15/tesla-semi-electric-truck-exceeds-range-e...

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