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"The Wall"....couldn't it be a huge solar energy generator too?

"The Wall"....couldn't it be a huge solar energy generator too?

As "The Wall" would go through some of the sunniest areas of the country, it seems to be a natural. There might be other purposes the structure could perform also. It would also be a plan that both the Democrats and the Republicans might be able get on board with, breaking our current impasse. If anyone would like to build on this idea, present challenges inherent with the concept or pass it on to people in a position to consider it, I would welcome it. Thanks. hcwhy

SCCRENDO | 10 janvier 2019

The border likely needs to be shored up. But to blindly talk about a wall is naive and a total waste of money. Parts of the border wall were approved in Bush's time but are being held up by eminent domain lawsuits. Let's spend our tax money wisely rather than to pander to a crybaby manchild president who is trying to fulfill a not well thought out campaign promise. There is no border crisis. Our crisis is a dysfuntional president.

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/424195-trumps-militarized-land-s...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trumps-border-wall-would-need-pr...

RedShift | 10 janvier 2019

If the wall is slanted at an angle, then yes.

A slanted wall might not be such a big obstacle though!

Watch Trevor Noah explain it. :-D

hcwhy | 10 janvier 2019

Thanks for your response. I was hoping for more technical and Sci/fi stuff and to avoid the political if possible ....like putting a hyper-loop in it. or water pipelines...or......this would be a massive undertaking that should serve many purposes if it happens.It should be something most of us could get excited about.

RedShift | 10 janvier 2019

If it works as a solar generator, then there might be some interest. As I explained, it can’t. Also, Mexico is not paying, so there is a snowballs chance in hell most of us could get excited about it.

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

It could be. But I would question the cost vs just building a new nuclear plant.

SCCRENDO | 10 janvier 2019

Trump might go for the nuclear plant with high levels of enrichment.
Perhaps he wants to let everyone wait at the border to be processed and stick them on a wheel to generate energy while they wait.
If the boondoggle goes up anyway lets stick solar panels on it

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

Assuming you could get all 3145km of border wall outfitted with 1 sqm panels at the top properly oriented, 800-500MW on good sunny days. By contrast San Onofre could make over a GW continuously for decades. I haven't looked at infrastructure but I suspect a nuclear plant is far cheaper than maintaining 3000 sqm of solar panels. It's certainly a more reliable and secure source.

jimglas | 10 janvier 2019

your right, the sun continuously goes offline for months at a time. And the fukashima type meltdowns are daily.

SCCRENDO | 10 janvier 2019

@Jimglas. +100. LOL. The verbal diarrhea spills over to multiple threads

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

Nuclear is the safest way to make power and with least environmental impact. That's even with the RARE accidents. By the way newer nuclear technologies available today greatly reduce cost and chances of meltdowns.

Solar farms also impact wildlife and have effects that need to be considered.

https://sciencing.com/effects-solar-power-farms-environment-13547.html

There are always trade offs.

SCCRENDO | 10 janvier 2019

So how is San Onofre working out lately??

hcwhy | 10 janvier 2019

@ Darthamerica

Good point on the wildlife!

hcwhy | 10 janvier 2019

@ Darthamerica

Good point on the wildlife!

jimglas | 10 janvier 2019

Can you say Fukashima?
I knew you could

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

@hcwhy surprisingly there are a lot of environmental wildlife concerns in the SW USA. Not sure how solar would affect it. Seems like a lot operations cost for relatively little power generation capacity by being spread out over so much border. A pair of modern nuke reactors would cost less and dwarf anything solar would make.

If the USG was willing to spend a few billion on border wall solar, I'd also consider alternatively offering to install solar on American homes with that money. It would more directly benefit citizens. Each house could be a mini solar power plant and feed excess power back to the grid.

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

@Jim nuclear is 1/5th of power production and 60% of clean energy in the US. Fukashima is not a good argument against nuclear. It was knowingly built in a high risk location with a design unsuitable for the kind of damage an earthquake/Tsunami could cause. Again even so, statistically nuclear is by far the greenest and safest way to make power.

SCCRENDO | 10 janvier 2019

Hey Darth. You forgot to tell me about San Onofre
Also if you think solar is bad for the wildlife how about a 60 foot wall
https://www.washingtonpost.com/brand-studio/wp/2018/09/09/feature/can-so...

Darthamerica | 10 janvier 2019

I didn't forget to tell you about it. I'm just not interested in engaging you here in a strawman debate so this will be my one and only response to any trolling here from you... You know that I know San Onofre if closed. That wasn't my point. My point is that while the idea of a 3100km long solar farm is interesting. The infrastructure necessary to run all of the cables, power distribution and 3M+ sqm of solar panels is environmentally more impactful, more expensive less powerful and less efficient than what San Onofre could produce in a much smaller footprint. Thusly if the objective is to get a wall and power, the better solution is a separate wall and separate nuclear power plant.

I won't ignore a non-confrontational response related to the OP's intent. But if the intent is to have a far left political argument then I decline and I give you permission to enjoy the last word.

jordanrichard | 10 janvier 2019

People do know that there is already a wall in place, it is just not a complete wall. So if as proposed by the OP “the wall” would be a good place to put solar panels, that could have been done before.

blue adept | 10 janvier 2019

There is no logic or reason to constructing a 'wall' along our southern border.

It won't stop immigrants from flying or boating or rafting or canoeing, or even tunneling, into our country as they have been doing for decades, centuries even.

The only purpose it would accomplish is serving as a symbol of our nation's ineptitude for indulging Trump's ego in allowing him to construct a physical manifestation of his narcissism, a lasting reminder of his , a Trump 'brand' on our country.

Trying to contrive ways of justifying its construction by finding some sort of practical purpose for it is as malignantly idiotic as the suggestion of towing a gas-powered generator behind a Tesla to increase its mileage/range.

If we really want to deter immigration from South America then what we need to do is fix the problem WE created back in the late 60's to early 70's when the CIA went down there (Nicaragua) and showed them how to industrialize the cultivation, manufacture and transport of cocaine and marijuana (to fund the Contra rebels to assist them in curtailing the emergence of pro-Communist groups in the form of the Sandinistas because we didn't want to commit any of our troops/pay for the policing of their country out of the U.S. Treasury), which bred the whole drug trade and associated detrimental aspects (drug lords, gangs, mass murders, addiction, etc.).

Trying to hide all of that behind a 'wall' isn't going to make any of it go away...

Just saying.

blue adept | 10 janvier 2019

EDIT:

Trying to hide all of that behind a 'wall', albeit even one bedazzled with solar panels, isn't going to make any of it go away...

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

@Blue a wall will dramatically reduce southern border crossings. It will save more lives than any alternative including illegal aliens who will not be able to cross a desert. The President was specifically elected for this purpose by voters. The wall will happen either by Democrats yielding this futile resistance or executive order. People need to come to accept reality. Since this is reality, discussing hypothetical methods to get additional benefit of it is a worthwhile discussion regardless of politics settled back in Nov 2016. Elections have consequences and America decided the way America decides things.

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

Historical context for how this plays out...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_healt...

If the President persist, if he insist, he'll get that wall just as his predecessor got Obama Care. He will have defeated the one "bad guy" everyone hates... Congress! America likes winners. While I do support the wall, this isn't an endorsement. It's an analysis of strategy.

RedShift | 11 janvier 2019

Some strategy! Net immigration has been zero last couple of years.

The very definition of a ‘manufactured crisis’.

This is a case of a big mouth reality TV star not comprehending how to negotiate himself out of a corner he backed his sorry behind into.

Nothing more.

NoMoPetrol | 11 janvier 2019

Another thought on solar panels vs. nuclear energy. When a solar panel goes on the blink, we send a technician to repair/replace it. When a nuclear plant goes south - Chernobyl.

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

@blue adept. +100.
Border crossings were down anyway before Trump took office. Trump came up with the walll idea to try win over the racists. Little did he know that this would catch on among the deplorables and win him an election. He now has to deliver on his promise otherwise he could lose the Foxnews propaganda crew, many of his voters and the election. He is in campaign mode. He does not care about immigrants seeking amnesty, any pigmented person trying to get into the country legally or illegally nor for the federal workers or military. His only interest is appeasing his faithful.
We also need to clarify who Darth is. He has recently been heavily trolling the climate change sites with BS statements about climate change, pollution and fossil fuels. None of his statements can be supported by data. He also dismisses any peer reviewed scientific data when it doesnt fit his narrative. It looks like his new pet project is pushing nuclear fuel.

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

@darth. You have woken up your friend the strawman. Obama was trying to provide healthcare fir all. Trump is trying to build a useless monument, the wall, that will achieve nothing. Yes Obama lost support to try achieve his goal. But he was prepared to do it because it was for a great potential result. Trump is doing it to gain support. He wont gain anything among those who don’t support him and could even lose. This may only help him shore up his base. The wall will not be built because of practical issues like eminent domain. He is likely also to be challenged in court and could lose there. If the Republican parts of Congress tire of his tactics the money could be stopped there too

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

@SCC the wall will save tens of billions a year for US tax payers who are covering the cost of illegal aliens who are breaking our laws to get here. With regards to law, well maybe you should consider who's appointed more federal judges including SCOTUS. Ginsberg is going to be gone soon too which will only increase Trump's judicial influence. I wouldn't bet on that branch stopping him. Congress is truly the only hope and a declaration of emergency will nullify them since Presidents have vast powers when it comes to foreign policy and military affairs. Fighting him on the wall will only play into the strategy. If Democrats were smart they'd find the wall in exchange for DACA. If They don't Trump will push for a comprehensive reform plan asking with the wall which he will get. That will pull even more Latinos and minorities to Trump and guarantee 2020. I wonder who is advising the DNC because it seems that they do not understand this advesary. He's killed ISIS, killed Obama Care, killed NAFTA, killed Paris Climate Agreement, killed Fake News, brought back jobs, reformed taxes, took SCOTUS and has the best economy in decades. Soon he'll "kill" illegal immigration. All of this in a first term. It's a shocking record. The only thing left is putting someone on another planet! This man is a force of nature.

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

@NoMoPetrol yes the consequences of a nuclear plant failure can be far worse. But the probability is extremely low. Nuclear is already 20% of our energy production and needs reinvestment. This is especially important for our weapons and ship propulsion technologies as well.

I like the solar wall idea but nuclear yields more benefit overall in my opinion.

hcwhy | 11 janvier 2019

Are there any more "creative", design based ideas on what might be used for our southern border control and hopefully other benefits? If not the solar collector as proposed... maybe something as far fetched as a moat with solar collectors on the side (not as unsightly)....any ideas from anyone?

hcwhy | 11 janvier 2019

Are there any more "creative", design based ideas on what might be used for our southern border control and hopefully other benefits? If not the solar collector as proposed... maybe something as far fetched as a moat with solar collectors on the side (not as unsightly)....any ideas from anyone?

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

I'd caution against critical infrastructure on a security barrier where you don't have jurisdiction on the other side.

NoMoPetrol | 11 janvier 2019

A moat???? In the desert??? Can you spell evaporation?

hcwhy | 11 janvier 2019

Actually, I had pictured it dry. I guess what I meant was maybe go down instead of up...or both.

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

@Darth. There is no evidence that the wall will save billions. Most criminal illegals come through the airports not the borders. Drugs are smuggled in tractor trailers through the border gates not over or under or through the wall or fence.Illegals usually pay taxes even if it is under someone else's social security number and pay more taxes than they cost.

You are free to give your opinion but people need to no that your facts are worthless and wrong. So if your want some credibility on this site please start telling the truth and support your opinions with valid sources

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-how-much-does-i...
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-mexico-wall/will-a-wall-be...

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

@SCC you're arguing for the sake of it...

https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/hehs-95-133

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

No I’m arguing because you post wrong or misleading statements. You government report is from 1995 and the second point states costs at face value. But points 3-6 state all the unknowns that could mitigate these costs. Try read my link which will explain all the benefits that immigrants bring particularly the 2nd generation. The DACA people that Trump hates so much. You post strawman arguments all the time and do not understand what a strawman is. You use point no 2 in your article because it makes your case but then ignore the rest of the picture.

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

@SCC believe whatever fantasy you want. Illegals cost citizens money. Only in the deepest far left fantasy is it cost free to have millions of poor people using government services tax free. Thankfully we are getting a wall so there no point to arguing with you.

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

You have no idea what you are talking about. You make the racist assumption that illegals jump over the border fence with their illegal drugs, sign up for welfare and go murder a few people. This is far from the truth. You are ignorant.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-...

Darthamerica | 11 janvier 2019

We are getting a wall no matter how angry you are, no matter what you think about it and regardless of whatever fake news link you post. So let's not waste time debating something that you can't change.

We can stick to the OPs hypothetical discussion.

SCCRENDO | 11 janvier 2019

No we are not. Google “eminent domain”

jimglas | 12 janvier 2019

Why are we discussing a fricking "wall" on a tesla blog
Cant we have a politics free space to discuss tech?

SCCRENDO | 12 janvier 2019

Politics is part of climate change which strongly relates to EVs and Tesla. I think it is an acceptable topic. The irritation to us is that we have Russian trolls here with their propaganda. But they are allowed to post in the interests of freedom of speech. And i support their posting on threads like this. When they spam our climate change threads I flag.

sabbia | 12 janvier 2019

@SCC but there's no reason to support the postings by @Mitch who openly admits that their goal is to "stink up" these threads. They threaten to "stink up" and then they do. It's like the Easter Egg in the recent software update "Emissions Testing Mode."

SCCRENDO | 12 janvier 2019

There is a thin line between the honest opinion of our denier friends and pure trolling. I am prepared to respond to their opinions if honest even if they differ from mine. It’s the spamming and trolling that I am flagging. The weathermoron is now spending most of his time on the trolling and spamming side.

Darthamerica | 12 janvier 2019

@SCC you're the one who keeps introducing your idiology to threads. We know you're a far left liberal. Now let's discuss the merits of the topic please.

RedShift | 12 janvier 2019

Spam is flagged, be careful when clicking on the above post

RedShift | 12 janvier 2019

Spam is flagged, be careful when clicking on the above post

jimglas | 12 janvier 2019

one an idiot would click on those links

blue adept | 12 janvier 2019

EDIT:

'...a lasting reminder of his self-obsession.'

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