‘17 S75 & X75D: (Uncorked AP2.5 Bio 50.6)*2. Grin on!
It comes down to the simple question of what do you get for your money. There are national considerations for folk outside the US too. As I see it you can hand over money now with really very little idea of how fast the progression to autonomy will go. Yes. we're promised traffic and stop sign recognition by the end of the year and talk of city driving. I haven't see any mention of true speed sign recognition having a timeline.
What does city driving mean? is this just on major throughfares or will it include side streets with randomly parked cars and possibly kids and loose dogs playing? Unlikely.
UK we don't have on/off ramp merging available (yet) and we have a lot of complex junctions .. roundabouts, traffic signs dealing wth more than a simple 4-way junction and even combinations of roundabout with traffic signals. Autonomy has a way to go to deal with that.
I was just discussion the pro/cons of upgrading to FSD with my OH and for the UK Tesla experience I think i'll hold off, invest that cash elsewhere and accept any cost penatly if I'm wrong and take up Tesla FSD later.
Lastly the rival large companies are also working on all this. just quietly without Elon's constant promotions and hype and may well just leapfrog the Tesla development model when they finally release their options.
Exciting time ahead perhaps.
I just came from a 2019 Mercedes S63, which ended up being a buy back, that had the ability to read traffic signs, slow to turn speed, make the turns, turn signal to change lanes, and a few other features. The system was poor in tracking in your lane; weaving in turns on the highway (scary). I could not trust it in city driving, but it was great on long trips. If you would be driving and come up to a construction zone it would rapidly slow to the posted speed; 80 to 50 mph, dangerous when the rest of traffic never slowed. It didn't read stop signs or traffic lights. The system in the Tesla is more stable, smoother and lane change quicker via the turn signal. I decided to add the FSD on my 2019 Tesla and take a chance that the roll out of new software was just around the corner and the upgrade did add the warning sound, beep, if traffic was a hazard changing lanes, the dog mode, rearranged the HVAC page. Once I made the payment online, the upgrade was immediately available for download and took less than 1 hour vs the 1:43 minutes displayed. Compared to the Mercedes the Tesla system is much more user friendly and the vehicle is half the price of the Mercedes. A HUD on the Tesla would be a tremendous improvement and I loved the night view assist on the Mercedes, but very few elected that option. I'll just have to wait and see if it really was worth the 2 grand. To be honest, I enjoy driving the Tesla more than the Mercedes, but miss the free car wash every week.
I have a 2017 HW 2.0 S90D.
I didn’t buy EAP or FSD at the time of purchase in 2016. It would have been 7k for both.
It then went up to 8k and then later 11k for both after purchase.
When it dropped to 5k for both, I bought it right away. Especially with those prices going back to normal on Monday. 11k was way too much. 5k is reasonable IMHO.
I snapped FSD up for our Model X as well when it was reduced to $2,000 After seeing how much progress there had been on my February '17 HW2.0 FSD purchase S100D I was not about to buy it on our December '17 Model X. At $2,000 though...we bit the demand lever hook line and sinker. Oh well....at least the CET of Tesla "Chief Executive Tweeter" has gone all out on Twitter and boldly said FSD buyers WILL get HW3....so there is that. lol lol
My x90d(2017) never saw a price alqays showed 11k, anyone else like that?
Mine showed 11k until late last week. Hopefully yours will show correctly by the end of this week. If not, I’d call Tesla to buy it at 5k (if you want).
I do want, been waiting, stopped by service center yesterday they said nothing can be done I need to wait and now this. Ugh
Can you try the main Tesla number?
Toll free: (888) 518-3752
Local: (650) 681-5100
Will do thanks man!
"My x90d(2017) never saw a price alqays showed 11k, anyone else like that?"
I'm in the same boat.. was waiting for it to drop to buy, but it never did... the last update from Tesla was starting next month but I heard from users from TeslaMotorsclub that it showed up for some and they brought the full package..
Actually, my head is spinning from trying to follow the moving goalposts.
When I paid in advance for FSD in late 2016, the feature was pitched as "give your car an address, and it will drive you there with no user input". We were told the car would even learn our schedules so if we just got in and DID NOTHING it would figure out where to take us (to work in the morning, home in the evening, for example.)
We were even promised that the (since deprecated) auto-connecting superchargers would allow us to summon our cars from _across the country_.
Now summon will bring the car to us...within the same parking lot. And full self driving will enable "automatic driving on city streets", and it will enable to car to "recognize and respond to traffic lights and signs."
All of this is of course very cool, but it's still a rather major step down from what we were promised a couple of years ago.
With my EAP purchase in December I had auto parking and 'navigate on autopilot'. Now I don't? And need to cough up another $2k to get back what I once had? Am I incorrect?
Manderson - whatever you purchased in December, you should still have.
@maderson, no current EAP/FSD owners will remain with the same features.
I bought FSD for $2K, which at that price is very reasonable, and consider an investment at trade-in.
I pulled the trigger on FSD, too. I wish my credit card cycle didn't end on 3/20, though. :-)
This literally makes no sense. If I paid $5000 a year ago for EAP 2.5, last week I could upgrade to FSD (that does nothing different for me now) for $3000. Today until Monday I can upgrade to FSD for $2000. I'm thinking of doing it ONLY because I will get Hardware 3.0 installed if I do, because for now and probably a year it won't do anything different. I also notice my autopilot is slow to react and slams on the brakes way too late, almost hitting cars even on 7 distance setting. I am hoping the new Hardware 3.0 with 10X processing power will help fix this. But in either case, why are people that didn't buy EAP for $5000 now given EAP, FSD, and hardware 3.0 for $5000, when I already paid $5000 and they want $2000 more for the same thing for a total of $7000? Why wouldn't I just get FSD and hardware 3.0 for the same $5000 price people are getting it today when I already paid the $5000 last year?
Prices change. Options change.
Don’t count on getting HW3 anytime soon.
“. I also notice my autopilot is slow to react and slams on the brakes way too late, almost hitting cars even on 7 distance setting. I am hoping the new Hardware 3.0 with 10X processing power will help fix this.”
I have that EXACT same issue and I am hopeful HW3 resolves it as well.
One quick question for you. So you find TACC alone does not exhibit the same behavior. My TACC and AP act very different in stop and go traffic and braking
I really only drive city, not much highway, and only 5000 miles / year. So I don't really use TACC, only used it once, so I can't answer that question. When I used it it seemed to do nothing different then AP other than prompted me to get off at the correct exit and then turned itself off, lol
HW 3.0 is already done. The board is easily swappable and in Tesla employees cars right now for testing. NOBODY designs and fabs out a chip/board and then doesn't use it or delays it. They are being mass produced now and if you buy FSD you will be getting the upgrade sooner than you think. If Tesla only put HW 3.0 in cars they start building in a month and have already promised anyone buying FSD WILL get HW 3.0 installed at no extra charge, and don't do it for all the people buying FSD now and in the past, well, they will have one hell of a class action law suit and PR nightmare. That won't happen. Elon has stated many times over the last days, weeks, months and years that anyone who paid for FSD will get HW 3.0 for free, period. The only exceptions may be very old cars that can't be converted.
How long can I put this FSD decision off, Saturday?
Hah, Elon said Monday would be back to normal prices. So if you are going to do it, might as well do it now. I just did. You will kick yourself if you end up paying $3k instead of $2k on Saturday.
I also purchased FSD. Other than the "Thank you for your purchase " webpage, there is not receipt. It was of extra concern to me because even though the purchase was approved by my credit card, the address displayed on the thank you page was an old one.Before I pulled the trigger, I did update the contact info on my account page, so I was concerned.
I called the credit card company, they had already approved it. I called Tesla. The customer service rep said that her department can't see purchases and that I should email customer support for a receipt. She says that she has had many requests such as mine.
On the upside, I did notice that the option to purchase FSD is no longer available on my Tesla Account page.
Strange that they do not email an acknowledgement.
"might as well do it now. I just did."
So did I. Can't trust when the price shown on your account page will change again.
Never my previous post.
The receipt is available in the My Documents section in my online account
It actually might go back to $4000. I think that’s the discounted price I’m grandfathered into.
This is a complete and total " show. I have a Model 3 without any EAP or FSD suctions. When they announced the price drop & configuration changes AP vs. EAP, I was excited and figured I would add in the new AP features in the next few months. All I have really wanted is the adaptive cruise control, a feature that is standard in a lot of similarly priced cars. Now it feels like either Tesla has no clue what they are doing, and/or are instituting a money grab utilizing artificial scarcity.
I contacted sales and those poor people are in just as bad a state as we owners are. I was hoping the might be able to clarify the upcoming "price correction" Elon mentioned. Will they go back to EAP and FSD as options with the old penalty pricing? Will they keep AP and FSD and just up those prices? Will they play around with pricing and option configuration again? Nobody knows?!? Surprise, @elonmusk posts a twitter comment that just adds chaos and confusion to the situation.
Insult to injury... you can't order and then cancel if the changes in less than a week when the price/configuration changes, you're stuck with the choice you made that lacks proper knowledge. There's next to no way to make an educated rational decission about this and not be frustrated, angry, or confused in the end.
Tesla...Elon...sort your stuff out!!!! To the rest of us...good luck.
I won't mind paying extra for FSD when it is ACTUALLY available some time in future. I will just not pay in advance for FSD, HW 3.0, ???. Enough speculation.
Im waiting for the FSD price to actually work before ordering it. When it first comes out it might be expensive, but after a year, Tesla will probably drop a price because lots of people who never selected it will be an easy cash grab if they lower the price. And besides if I sell the car or total it out what's the point of having something that never even worked. Will they give you more on a trade in right now because your car has FSD?
I bought FSD Feb 27 (one day before price drop) for $5k (supposed to get a $1k reimbursement.) for my Model S. Wish I'd waited to get it at $2k.
OTOH I have a Model 3 w/o AP/FSD that would benefit from the $5k combined package deal but I just can't seem to pull the trigger after burning myself once.
Given the promise that we will get a newer rev of hardware, just pulled the trigger on FSD at $2k. I can visualize myself saying at resale time, yes it's only a 75D but it has HW3 based FSD. If this were any other manufacturer, we would be told to trade up to the current model year car for any hardware or computer improvement. That would cost much more than $2k.
*tropopause, what made you decide to purchase FSD on February 27, since you already had your MS for a while (if I am not mistaken?)
"Given the promise that we will get a newer rev of hardware ..."
Is that a promise, or is it speculation? Maybe we will only get those FSD features that can be supported by our existing hardware. It will still be "Full Self Driving", just not full self-driving.
"If this were any other manufacturer, we would be told to trade up to the current model year car for any hardware or computer improvement."
Weren't we promised Enhanced Summon by the end of 2018? I haven't even heard that mention again, since Elon tweeted about that in November. Really, that is the only other thing I want, beyond EAP. I am certainly not going to buy FSD on an Elon promise.
My 2017 MS90D is still showing 3300€ for the fsd upgrade while everyone else in Europe seems to be down to 2200€. Any idea why?
@Craig1965, you say “HW 3.0 is already done.”, and “They are being mass produced now”.
Do you have any citations for this? Or secret inside knowledge?
"Craig1965 | March 12, 2019
HW 3.0 is already done. The board is easily swappable and in Tesla employees cars right now for testing. NOBODY designs and fabs out a chip/board and then doesn't use it or delays it. They are being mass produced now and if you buy FSD you will be getting the upgrade sooner than you think. "
I thought the February 28 announcement might be HW3 release and I worried my 2017 S might be left out if I didn’t buy the FSD upgrade. Additionally I wasn’t sure how much longer Tesla would honor the grandfather clause allowing me to upgrade for $4k instead of the $5k listed on the website at that time.
Although my Model 3 qualifies for the $5k AP & FSD upgrade, I’m not buying it as I believe one self-driving car per family is all that’s needed.
Elon tweat confirms every FSD pre-purchase gets HW3.0. Mobile service can install as well.
Questions still remain, as will HW3.0 (on a HW2.0) car provide other features such as Sentry mode and dashcam. My guess is it would, but only a guess. These "non-FSD" features and others that may get released almost make the $2K price worth it, ignoring FSD.
I don't recall where I read it, but I believe it said they are going to put hw 3.0 into cars made soon (Spring 2019, or a week from now to a couple months). Also read somewhere that Tesla employee cars were upgraded to HW 3.0 to test before the public. Sorry, can't find the source.
Elon tweeted on October 16, 2018 that it would be ~6 months:
"~6 months before it is in all new production cars. No change to sensors. This is simple replacement of the Autopilot computer. Will be done free of charge for those who ordered full self-driving."
@Craig1965: "soon" tells you all you need to know. :-)
When Tesla announces that HW3 is actually in production, then we'll know. Until then, we're just guessing.
And "for those who orderED (PAST TENSE) full self-driving."
Lots of wiggle room for Tesla.
I think I'll wait on FSD. By the time it's useful, HW4.0 will be ready. I'll get it then. Being technology, it'll follow Moore's law, the chip will be twice as fast, and the price will be half.
I can’t resist a good deal. I upgraded to FSD without the expectation of having my car drive autonomously. I figured experiencing the incremental upgrades toward self driving and whatever benefits of HW3 I’m getting, are worth the $2k. Cars are going to shift to self driving only once in history. I don’t want to miss it.
@Kcheng FSD means you can have a large meal and still fit behind the wheel. Autonomous Driving is when you pay extra to have the wheel taken away :-)
I am trying to figure out if I should wait for an assumed S refresh which would include the latest MCU and toys or invest $2k by the weekend.
For those who may have traded or ran what-if trade numbers with a Tesla S or X where they had optioned FSD on their current vehicle towards a newer Tesla, how much was FSD valued in your trade?
I think this could help justify this "investment" in case FSD doesn't materialize by the time of a S refresh or with less features than currently described.
Has anyone reverse engineered the trade value of FSD?
My feelings exactly...
March 2017 MX 75D with HW 2.0 & EAP from purchase (Uncorked too). So I just got off phone with the mother ship to see what I'll be getting with my purchase of $2k upgrade to FSD. We are celebrating our 2nd anniversary with this auto next week, 33.8 k miles that include two cross country trips from Bay area to Ohio and New York, and multiple trips up to Seattle area, so the features that will eventually get uploaded to the car have great value to me. I do all the driving, so anything that reduces stress and keeps me from having an accident is worth the $$$.
So the engineer that I got said: 1) New MCU hardware is needed to get to HW 3.0; 2) no new cameras or sensors are included 3) Will get Dash Cam feature and Dog Mode 4) will NOT be getting Sentry Mode as my vehicle doesn't have the proper camera (??) 5) my vehicle will NOT get Enhanced Summon Mode, where you can summon the vehicle from anywhere back to your location. I can have any Summon that I need to train the vehicle in learning, I'm a bit perplexed by items 4 & 5 and would like any input from owners that might support/refute what I learned. I've used any new feature that came our way from OTA updates since Oct 2013 with our older MS and now the MX and am amazed by the fact that we get them without the need to repurchase into a new vehicle and also not haveing to visit the SCs.....greatest thing that happened to driving a car. I'm still going to pull the trigger and know that as time passes my vehicle will get better features than it has now.
Grinn' after 100++k miles of EV driving....MHB