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Range of 2170-based Model S

Range of 2170-based Model S

Assuming the weight of the Model S didn’t change, if they refit it with the newer 2170 cells, what do you think the range would be? I’m also assuming the new drive unit and updated power electronics.

Bighorn | 29 mai 2019

2170s might make it to 400 mile range

EmperorTytus | 30 mai 2019

Since the new drive unit and power electronics achieves 370 miles today, I figured the 2170s would give it a bigger boost to range than 400.

RanjitC | 30 mai 2019

The 2170 is bigger and heavier, so if they manage to pack in the same number of cells the weight goes up or if less cells the stored power remains the same. unless they manage some combination of the two allowing a smaller increase of the capacity.

p.c.mcavoy | 30 mai 2019

OP stated “assuming the weight of the MS did not change”. That suggests to me it really comes down to whether the energy density, as defined as Wh/kg is higher for the 2170 cell versus the 18650 cell.

Based upon this article published by InsideEVs earlier this year it would appear that the range might not be appreciably different.

https://insideevs.com/news/342679/tesla-model-3-2170-energy-density-comp...

Their analysis indicates that the two cells have effectively the exact same energy per weight density at 246-250 Wh/kg when they compare to the lasted MS P100D packs. Their conclusion towards the end states:

“However, our calcs indicate that the P100D 18650 cell has about the same energy density by weight and volume as the new 2170. This implies that all Tesla did with the new 2170 cell was package their best 18650 cell into a larger 2170 cylinder.”

What could tip the balance is whether there is something with how the cells can be packaged to say the overall 2170 pack for the same energy content would be lower, but not because the energy weight density of the underlying cell is superior.

EmperorTytus | 2 juin 2019

Interesting read, thanks for posting that, p.c.mcavoy. Would have assumed slightly higher density. Also, did Elon refer to another battery update for the Y? I don’t know where, but thought I’d heard/read that. Curious what changes they’d make. JB Straubel seems like a very bright engineer.

inconel | 2 juin 2019

Tesla has a battery investor conference towards the end of 2019. Hopefully we will hear some new technologies.

PrescottRichard | 2 juin 2019

Kind of related- anyone know the reasoning behind the size & number of batteries? That is, why not 10 BIG batteries or 1000 AAs? There must be advantages to both approaches.

Bighorn | 2 juin 2019

@Richard
Primarily temperature management. See Boeing, which chose big batteries despite EM’s admonitions and suffered the consequences.

Hart | 2 juin 2019

@Prescott - please email me hrengeroneatcomcastdotnet

TeslaTap.com | 2 juin 2019

@PrescottRichard - In addition to BH's reason:

Tesla choose the 18650 originally because all the manufacturing equipment was already churning out billions of cells a year for other uses. Tesla uses a different chemical mix to make automotive grade batteries, but leveraging all the existing high-volume manufacturing dramatically dropped the cost of the pack. Think of it this way (numbers are somewhat made up for illustrative purpose):

7,000 cells at $1 each for 70 kW. = $7,000
70 custom cells at $200 each for 70 kW = $14,000

So far no other EV's battery pack has come close to Teslas cost of production, with estimates often 2 or more times what it costs Tesla for the same energy storage.

PrescottRichard | 3 juin 2019

Hart- not having luck with that email.

TT- thanks, that is exactly the info I was curious about. I look forward to what ‘new’ stuff comes out battery-wise. Cold weather performance and less volatile when punctured for example :)

Mark K | 3 juin 2019

Per JB’s comments on topic - the 2170 is their state-of-the-art cell.

Best energy density, best power density, best cycle life, and best cost efficiency.

The Model S And X will switch to it.

In about a year, the electrolyte may be updated with the maxwell energy dry technology. That will further improve capacity and cycle life.

All that said, our Model S 18650’s have performed brilliantly, and if Tesla gives economic incentives on the outgoing version, it’s still a great battery and can be a good deal based on the incentive.

It’s inevitable that batteries will get better. It just comes down to when you need the car, and how a good a deal they offer at the time.