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Nissan dealer: "The Leaf is for people who want a Tesla but can't afford it"

Nissan dealer: "The Leaf is for people who want a Tesla but can't afford it"

Really. that is what the salesman told me.
New release due in Aus and they have just one so far being prepared for demo.

rsingh05 | 7 août 2019

I knew many people who could afford a Tesla S but didn’t want to spend that much on a car and leased a leaf as a commuter as well.

Now with the 3 priced so low, this is no longer true. Not sure who the leaf is for anymore.

vmulla | 7 août 2019

I agree. I'm one of them.
My 2nd car is a Nissan Leaf.

SamO | 7 août 2019

How much is the lease in OZ vs US?

RayNLA | 7 août 2019

Technically my other car is a Tesla since I purchased the Leaf first!

vmulla | 8 août 2019

@RayNLA,
That would apply to me as well :)

For all it's shortcomings, I respect the leaf for introducing me to EVs at a low price point. This made me bolder to spend money on a lower end S.

The unexpected result is stellar appreciation for Tesla because everything I liked in the Leaf was magnified several times over in the Tesla.

TickTock | 8 août 2019

Yup. When I bought my Leaf, I could buy two Leaf's for the price of one S. With a 20 mile commute I had a hard time justifying *not* getting a Leaf. TM3 changed that. My Leaf is actually a great car for my teenagers - keeps the radius of trouble constrained. :-)

ReD eXiLe ms us | 8 août 2019

vmulla: It was that willingness to magnify, to indulge in extending magnitude that impresses me most about Tesla. They don't hust 'show off', they show up. With the goal in mind at every turn to defeat ICE forever. I love their systematic methodology, which so many NaySayers falsely call 'crazy', when I see it as simply... sincere.

PECo CT | 8 août 2019

So, Leaf owners (@vmulla, @RayNLA, @TickTock), if you didn't own an EV already and were looking to buy one, would you ever choose a Leaf over a Model 3?

vmulla | 8 août 2019

@ReD eXiLe ms us,
+1

PECo CT | 8 août 2019

I would never even consider a Leaf, because I believe that all-wheel drive is required where I live.

vmulla | 8 août 2019

PECo CT | August 8, 2019
So, Leaf owners (@vmulla, @RayNLA, @TickTock), if you didn't own an EV already and were looking to buy one, would you ever choose a Leaf over a Model 3?

---
No.

Leaf is a very nice choice as a LEASED second car.

I'll take the lowest end 3 over the highest end Leaf.

The only other edge that Leaf has over the 3 is a hatchback design. It only matters if you prefer that design ofcourse, with Y around the corner that advantage is not going to last long.

PECo CT | 8 août 2019

@vmulla

Thanks. That's what I thought.

I've already told my kids that their next cars won't be ICE, unless they need to tow something. Teslas for everyone!

hokiegir1 | 8 août 2019

@TickTock - that "radius of trouble" is why we are saying we'd get one for my in laws if (my old) their 2013 goes poof. ;)

andy.connor.e | 8 août 2019

This statement was true for when Tesla did not have Model 3. Now, not so much.

RayNLA | 8 août 2019

@Vmulla
Although I still love my Leaf, I wouldn’t ever consider it over a Model 3.

jallred | 8 août 2019

We have both a 3 and a Leaf. If we were to do it over again, we would still buy the Leaf.

The wife drives the Leaf. She only drives about 20m per day so there is no range issues. She makes great use of the hatchback. Prefers that the Leaf sits higher on the road. Gets car sick sometimes in the 3. And says she has much better visibility in the Leaf.

Plus we paid 19.5k for the Leaf. (after the rebates).

I prefer the 3. She tells everyone that her Leaf is "no Tesla". But she still prefers it for a handful of reasons.

vmulla | 8 août 2019

andy.connor.e | August 8, 2019
This statement was true for when Tesla did not have Model 3. Now, not so much.
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True to some extent. The other car companies still have the advantage of full $7500 tax credit, and they also start at a lower price point.
Even though they don't provide as much value as the 3 these other cars' lease deals can be very attractive because they have monthly payments ~$300-350. There's no way to get a 3 at that price point, lease or loan.
Unfortunately Tesla does not have the advantage of full $7500 credit anymore, and is only offering trims that exceed $40k. This gave other EVs a lease of life, or enough rope to hang themselves (your pick)

RayNLA | 8 août 2019

The salesperson’s comment is true in my case since when I got my Leaf I couldn’t afford a Model S and the 3 didn’t exist. My interest in Tesla drew me to the second best option at the time.
With that said... I don’t think anyone should be made to feel less than or inadequate because they don’t drive a Tesla.
I get excited to see any EV on the road.
The mission was never to put a Tesla in every driveway. The mission is to transition the world to sustainable transportation. This change is historic and I’m just happy to be a part of it in any way.

Joshan | 8 août 2019

At least its not just a compliance vehicle and they want people to buy it. Props to Nissan.

andy.connor.e | 8 août 2019

Even the leaf starts at $30k. The extra 6-7 grand is worth it for Model 3.

Joshan | 8 août 2019

thats MSRP you can get it 10k cheaper than that...

SalisburySam | 8 août 2019

Bought my LEAF SL new in February 2012 as a “reasonably priced” $40k new all-electric vehicle with an unheard of 100-mile range. Yeah that was a marketing lie, only 73-mile range then and less than 40 now, and degrading rapidly. However it was a wonderful introduction to EV driving setting new driver attitudes about refueling, hypermiling, concerns for battery maintenance, trip limitations, maintenance items and costs, and still today makes a wonderful car for short errands. Although newer LEAFs offer far greater range and longer-lasting battery chemistry, it would not be an alternative to a Model 3 for me. When I replaced our Toyota Venza in 2018 with our LR RWD Model 3, all of the LEAF’s deficiencies disappeared and I found the first EV that could actually replace an ICE for our usage (towing not involved, and too old to haul stuff). Still use the LEAF around town, especially in cold weather since it has the heated steering wheel, but the 3 is a vehicle on a whole ‘nother level. So add me to the @vmulla-and-others-list of folks with both who would not get a LEAF over a 3.

bjrosen | 8 août 2019

Sounds like that salesman really wants a Tesla himself. A good salesman would play to the Leafs advantages, the Leaf still gets the Federal Tax credit it's mostly gone for Tesla's, a mere 1875 now. But I bet there are other things that they could use. The Leaf is a small SUV, the Model 3 is a sedan. Personally I hate SUVs but I'm in the minority, SUVs are much more popular. Nissan also has thousands of dealers vs the handful of Tesla service centers. I suspect that there are other things that they may have done better. I'm unfamiliar with the Leaf but as someone who owns both a Volt and a new Model 3 AWD I can tell you that there are some things that are better in the Volt. Tesla gets the hard things right, the M3 is a rocket, has range, has the Supercharger networkm and it has the most advanced self driving features of any car, but they seem to screw up on the small but still important things. For example seats and seat belts, I'm fine with the seats in the Model 3 but my wife is 5'2" and she hates the seat, the seat belt doesn't come down far enough so it chokes her and the head rest isn't adjustable so it's pushing on the top of her head which hurts, we've been trying various workarounds like cushions and head pillows, I'd bet the seats in a Leaf don't have those problems, the Volt doesn't. Tesla also messed up on the USB plugs and phone tray. The phone tray is too small, you have to use a right angle USB cable to hook up your phone and it's still tight, the Volt has a phone pocket which fits my Pixel 2XL fine and I can use a standard cable. The Tesla also has only one 12V plug, which is needed to add additional USB ports, and it's both hidden away in the armrest and worse it's misplaced by an inch, you need a right angle USB cable and even with that the tray barely fits in. The Volt has an easily reached 12V plug next to it's USB plugs in plain view, I'm guessing that the Leaf got this right also. Finally the Leaf has Android Auto, the Model 3 doesn't. The Model 3 navigation gets you where you are going but it doesn't get you there the way you want to go, Google Maps does. Google Maps has an Avoid Highways mode, Tesla doesn't, and Google Maps gives you a choice of routes so you can pick the more interesting route if you want, Tesla only gives you one route. Google Maps allows multiple stops, as far as I can tell Tesla doesn't. Android Auto also supports Waze which lot's of people love. The Leaf has SiriusXM, the Model 3 doesn't. Satellite radio works everywhere including places where there is no cell coverage, the lack of SiriusXM is a drawback for the Model 3. So if I was trying to sell Leafs or Bolts that's what I would concentrate on, I sure wouldn't admit defeat right at the start even if it's an uphill battle.

AWDTesla | 8 août 2019

Leaf is a great car. Comes very well optioned, just ugly AF.

Madatgascar | 8 août 2019

The new ones are not ugly. At least not AF. I think Nissan actually wants them to sell.

crmedved | 8 août 2019

Sounds about right.

FISHEV | 8 août 2019

Not sure the salesman is accurate with numbers. Leaf will end up $3k cheaper after Federal Tax credit so roughly 10% cheaper but with 20% less range and Tesla advantage of looks and handling and charging network.

214 mile Leaf is $43k MSRP
240 mile LR+ is $40k MSRP.

kevin_rf | 8 août 2019

Why I held onto the Prius so long was because the first generation BEV's did not have the range I needed for my daily 90+ mile commute. Winter range loss would have been too great. The Model 3 was really the first car that could do what I needed, and as a bonus I can now completely ditch gas.

sosmerc | 8 août 2019

The Tesla charging Network is the overwhelming advantage at this stage in the game (for travelers). How long is it going to take for others to catch up?

AWDTesla | 8 août 2019

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my eyes tell me all the leafs are ugleh. lol

Kary993 | 8 août 2019

I agree with some others, not sure where the leaf really fits anymore as the price of the M3 SR keep dropping.....

raqball | 8 août 2019

AWDTesla | August 8, 2019
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my eyes tell me all the leafs are ugleh. lol
---------------------
I do not think they are good looking cars either but as you say, everyone has their own taste...

I don't think the Bolt's look bad but nowhere close to the M3.... The M3 is just flat out s3xy!

andy.connor.e | 8 août 2019

Looks matter a little, but overall functionality matters the most. No one has put as much money into their cars as Tesla.

Joshan | 8 août 2019

looks matter a little?I gotta disagree with that.

It could have Roadster performance, if it looked like a Nissan Cube I would NOT drive it.

raqball | 8 août 2019

Joshan | August 8, 2019
looks matter a little?I gotta disagree with that.

It could have Roadster performance, if it looked like a Nissan Cube I would NOT drive it.
---------------
Haha... Agree with you there!

007bond | 8 août 2019

By me they have a 5k rebate for JCP&L customers plus you still get the 7.5k so man 12.5k off no bad for a second EV and Leaf has improved over the years. But you could get the base model after rebates 17.5k mid model 20.1k or top 23.8k that's not the long range if you want that +4K still price is attractive with rebates. But if you do a side by side comp to the M3 the M3 is the clear value dollar for dollar winner. You would have to add a few tech packages to a leaf to get some features that are on the base 3 and then that really bumps the price up. You can find Leafs with a 50K sticker if you want all the bells and whistles. So honestly the Leaf is only a bargain if you only need the low end without all the options. But granted top of the line leaf 50k - 12.5k yea still could be right for some ppl. I was very tempted to just grab the mid model for 20k as I need a second car now and it's hard to justify 40k for a second around town car but really just want another 3.

AWDTesla | 8 août 2019

Yup, you wont drive something you cant look back at. I wont, that's for sure.

jallred | 8 août 2019

You can't compare MSRP. My 3 LR RWD was 43k+3k(tax and fees)-3.75k(fed)-3k(state) = 39k. My Leaf was 30k out the door - 7.5kfed-3kstate = 19.5k.

Pretty much exactly half the cost.

I have no regrets on the 3 or the Leaf.

jefedezorros | 8 août 2019

I traded in a '13 Leaf on my M3. But before I did I test drove the '19 Leaf Plus. In addition to the full federal tax incentive, there was a local $3k incentive from the power company (paid for by Nissan), as well as a tremendous amount of pricing flexibility from the dealership. The price on the Nissan, which comes fairly loaded with a 210 range, and Nissan's version of Autopilot, was going to be around $32k after all incentives and discounts applied.
That's a pretty big difference to a Tesla.
The sales rep I sat down with at Nissan was actually a regional Leaf ambassador (they brought him over to talk to me when I said I was interested in the Leaf). And when I asked him "What do you say to someone considering a Tesla, how do you compete?" His response was pretty blunt.. "We really don't."

Things I do like about the Nissan: Hatchback!! 360 cameras!!

dmastro | 8 août 2019

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jallred | August 8, 2019
3 LR RWD 39k.
Leaf 19.5k.

Pretty much exactly half the cost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This

andy.connor.e | 8 août 2019

Ya but if you had to choose between Model 3 body with nissan leaf performance/features, or Nissan Leaf body with roadster performance/features, which would you drive?

I'd be in the leaf personally. It matters "a little" was not to say it doesnt matter at all, but to me is not priority #1.

dmastro | 8 août 2019

I think most of us here agree that the Model 3 is a better car in nearly every way and worth the additional cost - as evidenced by our purchases - but some people just can't afford around $40K out the door after incentives. For some, a Leaf/Bolt is the only affordable way to buy an EV.

And then there are those buyers who can afford a more expensive car but are frugal and driven by cost first.

Joshan | 8 août 2019

They do sell Used EVs also and that market will start growing quickly!

dmastro | 8 août 2019

Good point, people can find pre-owned Leafs for well under $10K. Very affordable EV for young drivers.

007bond | 8 août 2019

On thing I don't think was mentioned yet is resale value.

Tesla has fantastic resale value in fact I can't see buying a used Tesla they cost to much I would rather buy new it's not that much more.

Nissan Leaf there is one 2012 on Facebook for $3500 most even with 50k miles in great shape they are in the 5-6k range. Nissan currently has no plans for rebuilt pack in the US and new packs now cost 8.5k so that means any Leaf that needs a new battery (and many 2011 and 12 do) are worthless since it is a waste of money to put in a new pack.

So again Tesla is the dollar for dollar value leader.

Again Leaf could be good for some I would not mind one as a second backup around town EV but it's no Tesla.

dmastro | 8 août 2019

@007bond: I think you're missing the point of the thread... the Leaf is an alternative for people who can't afford a Tesla. Resale value doesn't matter if they can't buy a Tesla in the first place.

Although agreed, so far Tesla's have held value remarkably well. Here's hoping it continues to be strong when i decide to sell mine!

dmastro | 8 août 2019

Teslas, not Tesla's

007bond | 8 août 2019

@ dmastro yes I agree and knew the topic I was just saying something to consider. Right now I myself need another car and no way I will buy ICE. Very hard to justify the cost of a 3 for second around town car the mid model Leaf with all the rebates at 20k may just be the choice...I'm still thinking....

rxlawdude | 8 août 2019

@dmastro, what's up? Getting possessive? ;-)

dmastro | 8 août 2019

@rxlawdude: the original premise of the thread actually interested me and I wanted to track through an insightful conversation about it.

I'm definitely not a possessive person, unless I just made a pan seared ribeye. Then back off.

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