Forums

Does "Rated Range" serve any purpose?

Does "Rated Range" serve any purpose?

I know some here have seen consistent numbers for rated range throughout ownership of their Model 3s (Models 3?). Others, myself included, have not. I've been everywhere from 287 to 311 (never did see that promised 325) in my LR RWD.

I am aware that these numbers mean essentially nothing. When my range dropped the first time, I contacted Tesla and had them look into my battery health, only to be told that everything was fine and that the reported number was based on charging patterns, quirks of the BMS, and random other variables. I stopped worrying about it, and it's gone back up and down a few times since. Aside from Tesla's assertion, my daily commute to work is a pretty good indicator that everything is fine. I lost 7-8% capacity each way when I took delivery of the car, and I lose 7-8% each way now, 36K miles later. This is true at pretty much any reasonable SOC.

So having said all that, what's the point of that range number? Is it just a historical leftover from ICE vehicles? Does it serve any purpose other than to freak out new owners about their "range loss"?

Incidentally, my car is set to display percentage not range. I'm only even aware of any of the above because I use TeslaFi.

Bighorn | 14 novembre 2019

I stick to SOC%. Rated range causes a lot of anxiety and consternation. It’s important when marketing and choosing a car, as a reference point. Not so much in ownership.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 novembre 2019

I tend to agree with BigH

Magic 8 Ball | 14 novembre 2019

Rated range is a gov requirement and shows up on the Monroney sticker. Estimated range (display in car) has nothing to do with rated ranges.

TeslaDvr | 14 novembre 2019

Switching to % is just to hide the problem or cheat yourself. It doesn't make things better or worse.

Let's say SR+ rated range is 240 miles. At 50%, it should show 120 miles. If the SR+ car loses rated range, say to 220 miles at 100%, then 50% would show 110 miles (and vice versa). In other words, if the battery indeed has degradation, % doesn't make the battery to have more capacity.

andy.connor.e | 14 novembre 2019

@TeslaDvr

You're not understanding the difference between rated range and estimated range.

TeslaDvr | 14 novembre 2019

@andy.connor.e

I understand the difference, and rated range showing next to the battery is what I am talking about.

All I'm saying is that when the battery loses its capacity due to degradation, % will not reveal that and rated range will.

Ajwill1131 | 14 novembre 2019

The rated range is a function of driving style, speed and terrain and after considerable use may also involve the battery degradation. During early ownership the rated range will inform the driver of what he can expect as a result of the way he drives and the journeys he makes.

Ajwill1131 | 14 novembre 2019

The rated range is a very useful tool for me because once you become accustomed to it you can expect higher or lower results depending on the driving you plan to do that day. On city driving days I usually exceed the expected range by about 10% but on freeway driving days I expect to be about 10% lower.

TeslaDvr | 14 novembre 2019

Put it this way:

- If you choose to show %, you would have no idea how much capacity the battery actually has. In other words, if the battery loses 50% of its capacity, the car will continue to show the battery between 0% and 100%.
- If you choose to show miles, you may, wrongly or correctly, get some idea on the actual battery capacity.

Bighorn | 14 novembre 2019

@Aj and @Tesla Dvr need to do some remedial work on this subject.
Rated range isn't anything but an indication of what the car thinks is the battery's capacity, something it can't measure with precision. Has nothing to do with driving style, speed or terrain, though it can get more out of whack depending on charging habits. Has absolutely nothing in newer cars to do with degradation. See first post about anxiety and consternation--case in point.

AAinSoCal | 14 novembre 2019

@M8B Unfortunately, TeslaFi calls the value reported in the car "rated range" and the value derived from your recent Wh/mi "estimated range". Hence the mixup on my part.

So, to amend my original post: "Rated Range" is required on the Monroney sticker. So fine, put that on the Monroney sticker. "Estimated Range," on the other hand, is an inaccurate guess at battery capacity multiplied by a fixed discharge rate. At best, it's not very useful. At worst, it gives people anxiety. So why even report it?

Magic 8 Ball | 14 novembre 2019

""Estimated Range," on the other hand, is an inaccurate guess at battery capacity multiplied by a fixed discharge rate. At best, it's not very useful. At worst, it gives people anxiety. So why even report it?"

You are catching on, that is why everyone says change to %. If the car has issues is will tell you via an error message.

Bighorn | 14 novembre 2019

@AA
You had it right the first time. Rated range is an EPA rate constant. Projected or estimated is on the energy screen and takes into account recent history. And "Trip" estimates range based on prevailing speeds and altitude along the upcoming navigated route.

lbowroom | 14 novembre 2019

Wrong terminology but pretty easy from context to discern what the OP meant. Just like "dealership" when referring to delivery or service center. I contend that although it's not completely accurate, it gets more accurate as you approach zero, so useful tool nonetheless. Tesla could probably save a lot of heartache if they just assigned the corresponding "correct" mileage to the battery % indicator. 100 full, display 310.... 80% 279... etc

andy.connor.e | 14 novembre 2019

I like the idea of having the range you see in the car have some amount of intelligence to being precise based on the persons recorded driving habits. But that would require people to not look to Tesla when their number isnt what the EPA rating is. Idk guys, i cant recall a single time i've ever heard someone who went to their manufacturer because their car was reading them a different MPG average than what the manufacturer specs their vehicles.

bradbomb | 14 novembre 2019

(Slightly OT) The only thing I wish was an option for the display to show percentage AND miles. I mean there is so much blank real estate on the screen next to the battery meter.

jordanrichard | 14 novembre 2019

I always stuck to Rated Miles because where one is going isn’t “x” % away, it is “x” miles away. I also long ago stopped paying attention to the Rated Miles when traveling on a road trip mostly because the density of the superchargers gives me that freedom.

bjrosen | 14 novembre 2019

One of the issues is that the slider that sets your charge level isn't precise. I've been getting 274 at what I though was 90%, but when I switched to percent it showed that it was charged to 89% not 90%. 310 * .89 is 275.9 which is much closer to the displayed range number. The range number should not be taken as an indicator of battery health.

Trekman | 14 novembre 2019

@jordanrichard +1
FINALLY, someone articulating what and how most people plan trips!

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 14 novembre 2019

Use nav when you drive and it will show you % left when you arrive and % left for round trip. No need more miles to see if you make it or not .

FISHEV | 14 novembre 2019

"So having said all that, what's the point of that range number?" To show what your range is based on battery's charge and rated miles per kWh of battery capacity. In my LR AWD that is 4.13 miles per 1kWh.

Rated range takes what you should be able to get out of the car.

Estimated range is what you will likely get based on your driving of the last 10/20/30 miles on the Tesla Energy Graph. You can alter your driving to push the Estimated close to the Rated for more energy efficient driving.

Rated range is also used to show battery degradation such as this from StatsApp.

https://imgur.com/bQ8iCKC

real-scalextric | 12 janvier 2020

TeslaDvr seems to have it quite right and I don't understand why others see it differently. not showing the rated range and using % just hides a possible issue. Imagine if for some reason, there was a manufacturing issue which meant that half the battery pack didn't get connected or was dead from delivery. Fully charged, the % should show 100% charged. But the rated range would only be half what it should be. So while rated range can only ever be a guide and actual range will vary based on so many factors, saying 'just ignore it' doesn't seem to have any merit. I can see an argument for tesla showing only 'typical' range for the battery capacity, but the rated range SHOULD be a useful thing to see.

stingray.don | 12 janvier 2020

real-scalextric,

If the battery pack had a serious issue as you describe, the car would notify you.

“Your Tesla will inform you in the unlikely event a hardware issue is causing excessive battery or range degradation.”

https://www.tesla.com/support/range

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 12 janvier 2020

Also there is nothing in the car display that described as rated range. Read manual please

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 12 janvier 2020

“ Tesla needs to do the same and use the Projected Range from the Energy Graph”

No it doesn’t.

real-scalextric | 12 janvier 2020

WW_spb are you saying the battery display when you select range instead of % is not showing RATED range? I can't see anything in the manual that states that to be the case. The manual just states you can select 'range' or %.
stingray.don, they may well do that if they can see the range has degraded, but that doesn't mean there is not value in users being able to see that for themselves, and the rated range display is a way to do that. Also, what if there was an issue on delivery and a car started with less capacity than it should have.... the range wouldn't have degraded in that case, but you would be getting less range than you should. It must be possible that Tesla manufacturing processes are not 100% perfect and tthere can sometimes be variation...

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 12 janvier 2020

What it displays is the product of remaining energy with the Distance/Energy output from EPA testing.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 12 janvier 2020
Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 12 janvier 2020

Do you see rated range when they talk about green bar? You don't. The end

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 12 janvier 2020

“ 2. The number fluctuates more after the recent "V10" update so Tesla introduced additional variability in the number.”

Playing the guessing game here, I suspect they tried to improve the accuracy of the remaining charge.

PECo CT | 13 janvier 2020

Have "gas gauges" ever been precise in ICE cars? Mine haven't been, but they functioned well enough for me. Perhaps Tesla should provide an option to display "range" with an old-school, analog "gas gauge".

FISHEV | 13 janvier 2020

"Have "gas gauges" ever been precise in ICE cars?"

Yes...both Subaru and Audi give Projected Range based on last tank on the gas gauge.

andy.connor.e | 13 janvier 2020

% remaining takes care of that.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 13 janvier 2020

I wonder why Fish feels obligated to comment on majority of threads? Does he believe that any one but naive trust his opinion? Especially in the light of all the facts against his false statements and lies and basically not understanding what he is talking about. Fish, do you really enjoy wasting your time on spreading bs and lies? True question.

andy.connor.e | 13 janvier 2020

There are a few new people who dont yet know. You cant stop it forever because new people will always come in not knowing the truth.

jallred | 13 janvier 2020

He so much wants it to be rated range that he even sees the words on the screen when the words aren’t there.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 13 janvier 2020

jallred: There are four lights! ;-)

Big_Ed | 13 janvier 2020

Useful for pre-buy decision, and as a rough metric for those like me who don't want to put a lot of thought into range. I'm used to boat and airplane fuel gauges, both of which are notoriously inaccurate. Just like flying and boating, plan a reserve.

andy.connor.e | 13 janvier 2020

Boat is horrible. Bow is always pitched up and fuel tank is about 1/4 more empty than the gauge says until you bring the throttle all the way down. Also even after driving our boat for more than 15 years, i still dont have a good grasp of any degree of fuel economy. We just go by good instinct that if the tank is at 50%, we fill it after the next long cruise.

real-scalextric | 13 janvier 2020

WW_spb thanks for the screenshot of the manual, but it doesn't actually state what 'version' of range is displayed. If FISHEV is correct in saying '"What it displays is the product of remaining energy with the Distance/Energy output from EPA testing" then the range displayed is useful, shouldn't vary that much, and certainly doesn't change according to driving style, current weather etc. There seems to be mis-information, including from Tesla who have said that it does vary based on some of those things. I don't understand this 'turn to %' and don't worry about it train of thought. A range display, even knowing its a very rough guide, is much more useful, and gives you and indication if things are changing in a way % simply can't. No one cares if the battery is 50% full, they want to know roughly how far that will take you!

FISHEV | 13 janvier 2020

“ If FISHEV is correct in saying '"What it displays is the product of remaining energy with the Distance/Energy output from EPA testing" then the range displayed is useful.”

I don’t find Rated Range that useful especially in Winter where it is off by 20-30%. I look at Projected Range in the Energy graph to see my remaining miles so I know how to plan and when to charge.

I’d prefer if Tesla uses Projected Range instead of Rated Range in the miles next to battery icon or add Projected Range to the main screen somewhere.

majassow | 13 janvier 2020

Except Tesla would be inundated with complaints like:
"I drove 30 miles downhill to work, and the battery range meter said I could go another 32 miles. When I drove back home, I ran out of gas after 10 miles."

The battery level indicator has NO IDEA if the next 30 miles will be like the last 30 miles. Trip meter-- certainly does, but not everyone drives with NAV all the time.

FISHEV | 13 janvier 2020

“I drove 30 miles downhill to work, and the battery range meter said I could go another 32 miles. When I drove back home, I ran out of gas after 10 miles."

That is the situation that using Projected Miles will prevent and Rated MIles will create. Rated Miles is ideal conditions while Projected Miles is current conditions miles.

Bighorn | 13 janvier 2020

lol

majassow | 13 janvier 2020

wow. just wow.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 13 janvier 2020

Fish is a clown troll

Big_Ed | 13 janvier 2020

@andy.connor.e

Yep. Cars are always level. Boats and planes, not so much. Many general aviation aircraft are approaching 50 years old, and 50+ year old fuel gauges are as reliable as 50+ year old knees, a fact I am acutely aware of. Always makes my passenger happy when I start rapping the fuel gauge with my knuckle to see if it is stuck. Maybe I should try that in my SR+?

stingray.don | 13 janvier 2020

@Big Ed,

What do you fly?

majassow | 13 janvier 2020

@Fish: obviously wrong, but you are just being your normal argumentative self.
"Projected" is based on your last X miles of travel. On the energy graph, you can select 5, 15, or 30 miles, and it assumes the rest of your trip will match the average from that period in its projection. It is NOT based on your "current conditions miles".

If the "mile to empty" indicator worked like you think you want it, the battery mileage indicator would fluctuate as fast as the energy graph on instantaneous mode. e.g. "current conditions miles" would go to 1000 miles during regen, and drop to 50 miles during hard acceleration. I think most people would be very confused about that.

Which means, the only reasonable way to show miles to empty (other than EPA based range) is based on the past X miles of history. Which gets you into the situation I pointed out, and the smart folks at Tesla figured would happen. It comes down to: If you don't have a nav destination, there is no way to derive an accurate "miles to empty" based on "current conditions miles".

And even if they displayed the miles to empty based on nav (and maybe used their pretty decent nav destination guestimator): then people would freak out about their battery showing more/less miles because they changed their navigation destination.

So IF you are going to show miles on the battery capacity, I think Tesla made the best choice. The only better choice would be to only show % of capacity left.

Sometimes it's best not to give too much detail: you end up just confusing people that don't understand what's behind the numbers, and try to interpret the gauges like they would on their ICEicle.

Pages