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CNET review says MX great but falcon doors need to go

CNET review says MX great but falcon doors need to go

Interesting review from a source I personally respect. They love the car and hate the doors.

http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/auto/2016-tesla-model-x-review/

Gary an Rachel | 9 mai 2016

No problem ONCE with our FWD's. With all the noise the past 6 months about the doors I am thinking cnet was a little lazy by going after low hanging fruit. Could they have actually driver the car for a day and found something on their own to report about. It seems this was just phoned in by the reporter. Come on, this is a fun car to drive and I'm happy to have one in my garage. I feel so many have not had a chance to go for a ride and find out for themselves. This car is unlike Anything ever built. The word fully loaded is something that can barely explain the driving experience of what it's like being in this car. Don't let others keep you from finding out for yourself, find a Model X out there and talk to the owner. I'm sure if you are sincere in finding out about this car the chance for a ride will be your reward. This car is Fantastic and I want to thank Tesla for building this car for the public and not just for a handful of insiders. This is a high water mark for any other car maker to try and achieve, I can only hope that one of them tries.

aesculus | 9 mai 2016

Mostly driven from angst and not experience, but completely understand the writer's concern. I would have phrased it as more of a caution than an absolute, but journalism is what it is today, and I suspect he feels a need to protect his readers. Overall a very nice article.

Gary an Rachel | 9 mai 2016

Yes, a very nice telling about how this is a solid car. To explain my post a bit more, if he had reported once about the FWD that would be nice reporting, but Coming back to it 3 more times was a bit much. If this MX had sliding doors let's say the car would not be able to keep the style of the panels the way they are. Tesla would have had to do a design that is topical to Flat sides like all the other boring suv's out there. I would be unhappy with less curves and bored with 25+ year old sliding doors. So "In My Humble Opinion" this FWD solution gives me so much more that two seconds for them to open.
I think the reporter would have been labled a fanboy if he had not picked on something like the doors. Being a fanboy is not a bad thing, when it comes to all things tech, yes I'm a fanboy, computers, cell phones, home electronics, etc.

carlk | 9 mai 2016

I don't see the justification of calling the FWD impractical. All he did say is "it takes an awfully long time to reach for the sky" (huh?) but never mentioned if even one passenger has tried to get in or out back of the car and how that worked. And I agere with Gary an Rachel about it is picking the low hanging fruit to make the article more interesting to read. On the realiability issue they did say their latest sample never had any issues with the FWD. Why would they still want to mention the test car they had months ago, which is not the same as current production cars, and use it to speculate "I have to imagine the out-of-warranty cost of repairing a falcon-wing door will be just as painful as a falcon punch." is beyond me.

Ankit Mishra | 9 mai 2016

I won't even read the article. People are not used to seeing something new. If it was up to average intellect of population, we won't see any challenging thing being done. Disappointing. I believe the doors are going to be a huge success.

carlk | 9 mai 2016

And when it says "it need to go" after Tesla has already spent so much effort to make it to work is nothing short of sensationalist journalism. Do they really think Tesla should take those FWD away and replace them with those "practical" (sic) old type doors?

raging.dragonfly | 9 mai 2016

If the wings were glitchy or felt wimpy or weak, I might be inclined to agree. But they're not. They feel solid, stable, strong & smooth. We love our wings, as do all who have come to gawk, admire, ride in, or test drive. They are practical, AND a marvel. I would be very sad /upset if Tesla decided to not do them anymore. They are an important part of what makes the car what it is.

rhartson | 9 mai 2016

so they never gave him a problem but he bitches about them anyway????...sounds like pre-existing bias to me....what nonsense.....

sp_tesla | 9 mai 2016

"raging.dragonfly | May 9, 2016
They feel solid, stable, strong & smooth. We love our wings, "

Who would not love them a lot more if they replaced those "practical" (sic) old type driver doors.

vperl | 9 mai 2016

Preconceived agenda, for an article is interesting " journalism" at it's best .

brando | 9 mai 2016

Reminder: the warrantee is 4 years 50,000 miles

=====================
Good call Gary an Rachel (from above post)

"I think the reporter would have been [worried about being] labeled a fanboy if he had not picked on something like the doors..."

DarthB | 9 mai 2016

As an actual user, I would not have bought the Mx if not for the FWD. The major selling point of the X is that it combines performance and utility into a single package. Where else can I buy a sports luxury SUV with access of a 7-seater van? I have 2car seats in the second row--without the FWD and pivotal 2nd row seats, the 3rd row would be total useless (like my old BMW X5 7-seater)

To me the FWD is as much for practicality as it is for style. I sure hope Tesla will continue to refine version 2 of the X.

AlMc | 9 mai 2016

I have read the article and find it to be a 'positive' overall.
I agree with @CarlK that removing them now after all the CapEx is not necessary. As I have suggested before TM did not need them in the first place but now that they have spent the time and money they should keep them.

carlk | 9 mai 2016

I can't say that I would not have bought the X if it does not have the wing but I can say for sure that I would not go all in and bought a fully loaded one. Without those signature wings it would be just a "ordinary" car and hard to justify spending $150K for,

lilbean | 9 mai 2016

That is what makes the car stand out from all the rest.

Triggerplz | 9 mai 2016

Lilbean tell em that again just in case they didn't hear u the first time :-)

lilbean | 9 mai 2016

It seems to me that the front doors are more of a problem than the FWDs.

lph | 9 mai 2016

Car and Driver has just done a full review of the MX P90DL Paper copies only just now (not on the web yet).
They also did not like the FWD, but everything else was a huge hit. They even said that the chassis designer was as genius and that if BMW made a their competitor cars that handled this well they would be popping the Champagne. High praise indeed!

carlk | 9 mai 2016

It's a little strange that no one has mentioned how well the X handles before. Coming from Model S P85+ and Porsche Cayman S I feel the X handles extremely well... and then I realized it's actually a 5300lb SUV.

AlMc | 10 mai 2016

@Triggerplz: Well, I will repeat it again just in case no one heard me the first time: TM would have sold just as many Xs without the FWDs. They are an attention getting/unique feature/ engineering achievement but NOT (IMO) the compelling reason to buy an X to replace an ICE SUV/CUV/Minivan. ;)

Now that they have them spent the time, talent and treasure making them I do not agree with the CNET author suggesting they be removed. ;)

darlin | 10 mai 2016

Not sure I would have bought it without the FWD.

All the tech is way advanced, but it is the entire package that I want, not just the tech. The doors are the kicker that made me sign up. It is a "one of kind car" and that is what decided me.

Styling without those doors would have changed the entire looks of the X. Not sure I would even look at it then. It would look too much like minivan. Which I will never own.

rdainer | 10 mai 2016

Yeah as a mom of two I have resisted the incredible convenience of a minivan cuz it looks so terrible - and those stupid (useful) sliding doors - it makes me feel like someone is smothering me in a blanket labeled "mommy". The X lets me be myself ..oh and haul my kids around

lilbean | 10 mai 2016

Well said rdainer. People would compliment my odyssey doors. Haha.

rossRallen | 10 mai 2016

I love my X and especially the FWDs. Yes, they require some thinking so as not to close them on a passenger, but thinking is OK, and they are so cool that I sometimes cycle them just for the sheer joy of watch them open and close and having the whole back of the car open.

If FWDs don't appeal to you, then buy something else! ...perhaps a KIA?

AlMc | 10 mai 2016

Not a question of appealing. Question is would you, or most people, have purchased the X without them? Or did you buy it versus another SUV (ICE) just because of the FWDs?

Personally, I like them as a consumer but as an investor and believer/supporter of the mission statement I feel they are more a headwind than a tailwind to accomplishing the mission.

I would start a thread about this but it is unscientific so I can't prove or disprove the hypothesis.

Just like everyone else here...an opinion.

aesculus | 10 mai 2016

I would have bought the Model X without the FWD for sure, but when saw them I got eXcited. They can save the practical CUV for the Model Y IMHO. I am sure we won't see the FWD on another Tesla anytime soon.

Remnant | 10 mai 2016

Perhaps Tesla could offer a budget version of the MX, with regular rear doors, or with rear doors opening forward (on rear hinges), or with sliding rear doors (like a mini-van).

The point is that there probably is a residual MX market for that kind of MX, especially if its handling and other features (such as the pano windshield and the bioweapon filter) were preserved and, by some miracle, the 2nd row seats folded flat again.

darlin | 10 mai 2016

I agree AIMc "Personally, I like them as a consumer but as an investor and believer/supporter of the mission statement I feel they are more a headwind than a tailwind to accomplishing the mission."

And FWDs may never see the light of day on any other vehicle ever.

Which makes the X all the more unique.

I was also excited by the concept early on, then the actually production of these doors.

I do not think they are totally practical, they are a little slow, but the number of people who have stated that the 3rd row access for little kids/babies/car carriers was very good compared to many other SUVs/minivans

loganboyd | 10 mai 2016

No way I buy the X without the FWDs. Viva La FWD!

carlk | 10 mai 2016

Just ask youself how many people who do not know much about Tesla would click an article to find out what it is when they see the picture of FWD? How many of them would be attracted to the car when they see the FWD up in the parking lot or by the curb and to ask you questions about the car (dozens for me already)? And how many of them would go into the Tesla store to check it out when they walk by and see one with the FWD up? And do you know how much an auto company or dealer is willing to spend just to get one person to set foot in the showroom? If there is a better marketing tool than the FWD it has not been concieved yet.

Besides it's not just for show it does serve a very useful purpose when you do carry passengers in the back.

elguapo | 10 mai 2016

The FWDs make it possible for me to easily put my kids in car seats in the second and third rows. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't have gotten the X. So the FWDs do matter to some. That said, you can't please everyone and they do take some getting used to.

darlin | 10 mai 2016

carlk +1

Sleepydoc1 | 10 mai 2016

When was the last time someone stopped and stared at someone getting out of a BMW X5 or a similar MB or Land Rover? I get daily stares when those doors open up. Step right in and away we go. My kids are singing Little Einstein's theme (Ok, embarrassing, but it is true) and asking for some Star Wars music. What other kid had so much joy over a car door?

Is Kia ever going to copy that part of the MX, or just the general look? See what a sliding door or a regular swing open door does to the look.

A take on VPERL - Wait for the Kia then.

Ankit Mishra | 10 mai 2016

FWD will ensure exponential rise of Tesla will continue. Others have caught up with Model S as it's a simple car. Model X will ensure Tesla has even more lead over others. And maybe in future versions, all four doors will be FWD, then we will have the true futuristic car. This is a very big asset for Tesla IMHO.

Big T | 10 mai 2016

The CNET reviewer never said whether he had kids and if so, what age. Maybe you have to be a parent of young kids to truly appreciate the FWD.

carlk | 10 mai 2016

Well CNET did not even say whether it has tried to put any passengers in 2nd or 3rd row seats and how did that work compares to normal doors. All it did say is "it takes an awfully long time to reach for the sky". They probably did not even know the door opens slow only when it has sensed obstructions in the path for normal (and pretty fast) opening.

aesculus | 10 mai 2016

I suspect Tesla will follow up with CNET to address any concerns they have. Of course it may never make it back into the publication except as footnote at best.

lilbean | 10 mai 2016

The CNET reviewer doesn't even own one. She had to give herself a reason to feel better about not having one.

Red Sage ca us | 10 mai 2016

I'm sure that someone, somewhere, found a reason to complain about minivans being built with sliding doors on both sides when they first appeared 25 years ago or so.

carlk | 11 mai 2016

Someone actually did. I just found this comment somewhere.

"As a person who has personally ripped the handle off of four 'van' sliding doors because they would not open, I tend to disagree that 'Falcon' doors are a weak alternative. Especially in tight locations. Get over it!!!"

AlMc | 11 mai 2016

@Red and @Carl: Do you believe that the sliding doors caused as many delays and cost as much ( in today's dollars) in time, talent and treasure as the FWDs?

Big T | 11 mai 2016

AIMc, that's not the point. The discussion is about the usefulness and desirability.

Al1 | 11 mai 2016

Falcon Wing Doors will become for Model X what Eiffel tower is for Paris.

AlMc | 11 mai 2016

@BigT: CNET article author says they should do away with the FWDs. Recent posts indicate that other doors (example used is sliding can door) break also. The implication being that maybe they should not have been used/developed resulting in failures. So, IMO, my comments and additions to the discussion are quite appropriate.
I accept your opinion differs.

AlMc | 11 mai 2016

@Al1: So since the Eiffel Towel is the French national monument, in your opinion the FWDs will replace our national monument? J/k. ;)

elguapo | 11 mai 2016

@AIMc Hindsight is 20/20, so who knows if TM would put the FWDs on again if they had it to do over? Clearly, Elon said they would have done some things differently.

The only scenario I can imagine where the FWDs closing/opening speed would be an issue for me is if I were a bank robber. The truth is, I timed how long it takes my FWDs to close with no obstructions nearby and how long it takes my Odyssey's doors to close electrically and the Odyssey did win - by half a second. I do respect and understand the utility argument as well, but we have the FWDs.

Seems like it should be easy for them to give you your folding seats, but I don't see a non-FWD version coming as the whole frame of the car, Inc.uding the magnesium spine, was built for them.

I thought the article was clearly pro X - author loved it. The FWDs are certainly an acquired taste. Someone once told me that about caviar. I have tried it like 15 times and still haven't acquired the taste. ;-)

Side note - I am driving through Newark this weekend, I think.

socalsam | 11 mai 2016

I own a mercedes SLS gullwing. I love the doors due to the novelty of them. Im a fan of the falcon doors also however what I don't like is that they tried to automate everything. They could have done falcon doors and just had them open manually. Less hassle, less headaches.

Regardless, FWD are cool.

dortor | 11 mai 2016

the FWD have specific failure conditions and usefulness conditions that sliding doors do not

I have been stuck in a FWD that couldn't open in a tight place just like the reviewer

FWD's are complex, error prone, and only marginally better that existing door designs - (I honestly believe they are not marginally better, but I'll go with the forums wisdom here) - the real problem is there are simply places they do not work at all where normal doors do…

not worth the trouble and delay - I also believe they will not age well and prove to be a liability in the future as the components age and need to be replaced. Great party trick, wonderful engineering accomplishment, costly feature for marginal benefit.

Ankit Mishra | 11 mai 2016

@dortor
You are so bitter towards Model X that your arguments are irrational. These doors are a piece of machinery which will improve over time by software updates. Even if I am wrong and they turn out to be a failure, there simply isn't enough data at this point to make a judgement call on them. So, kindly deal with whatever issues you have with Tesla because it's certainly not about the problems with these doors.

dortor | 11 mai 2016

machinery ages - software updates - the machinery required to operate a falcon wing door will age, is not new or newly designed - and from decades of engineering experience will eventually fail - the motors/gas-shocks and hinges on the FWD's have a finite life span and carry great loads.

these doors will FAIL/age in a way that software can not fix - and when they do fail the parts and labor to fix will be expensive and out of warranty…the design is complex - designed to delight not to perform or be ultra reliable - otherwise they would've chosen different parts.

also a simple engineering analysis of MTBF of the parts Tesla choose to source for the FWD will show that the gas shocks in particular have a 5-6 years MTBF vs. a normal door hinge on a sliding door having an MTBF measured in decades.

Ankit it is you is irrational - irrationally exhubriant about all things Tesla, so much so that you callously disregard foreseeable failures and mis-steps by Tesla due to your flawed view of Tesla's greater mission.

A greater mission is a sad excuse to saddle your current customers with over the to designs that have questionable reliability for a device/product that needs to work day in and day out.

The FWD will be a liability for the X due to aging and cost and labor to repair when their expensive and rare (rare because the X is a low volume vehicle) components start to fail well before the rest of the car…I have no question about the longevity of the X it's been proven with the S - but the FWD will not age well and will be very expensive to repair.

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