Forums

Will 8.1 end MobilEye ties?

Will 8.1 end MobilEye ties?

Does anyone have a guess as to whether 8.1 may end all ties with MobilEye? For some reason I just assumed HW1 cars would always just use MobilEye and HW2 use TeslaVision. But thinking about it, it makes more sense for all cars to run on TeslaVision. It would also support Elon's claim that HW1 cars would continue to improve. It didn't make sense to waste resources on HW1 cars running MobilEye, but if they all run TeslaVision, updates as hardware allows, would obviously happen. Could they have kept MobilEye on HW1 ONLY until TeslaVision was on par or better? Anyone have any thoughts?

So, from a computer standpoint, can HW1 cars run TeslaVision?

carlk | 13 mars 2017

Seems very unlikely to me. Mobileye refused to provide Tesla access to the camera raw data which is the main reason for the early split. Tesla could only put more emphasis on the radar for improvement.

Anthony J. Parisio | 13 mars 2017

carlk,
Do you think Tesla could hack into the camera data? Who they have the rights to do this?

carlk | 13 mars 2017

Anthony I'm not a computer expert so this is all just speculation on my part. Even if Tesla could hack into the camera system it would still need new hardware to make that to work with TeslaVision. The likelihood of what JAD wanted to see to happen is probably none.

BigD0g | 13 mars 2017

AP1 may receive some new features, but I'd bet the hardware and such is end of life. You'll receive some new dash and various software updates, but they aren't going to,replace mobile eye with tesla vision on ap1, unfortunately ap1 just doesn't have the hardware to run the software.

Bill_75D | 13 mars 2017

How do we know that Tesla and MobilEye still have ties? I would have thought they did not.

BigD0g | 13 mars 2017

They don't, it's very clear in their filings.

Bill_75D | 13 mars 2017

I thought so. The thread title is misleading.

JAD | 13 mars 2017

BigD0g, why do you think HW1 can't run TeslaVision. HW2 isn't using anything currently that isn't available in HW1, One main forward camera, one radar and the sonar sensors. I know HW1 won't get all the 4 camera features, but HW1 should be able to handle just as much running TeslaVision as it currently handles running MobilEye. I don't see why MobilEye should be needed for HW1 at all.

BigD0g | 13 mars 2017

Because HW1 is running on a mobile eye iq chip, not a nvidia gpu based platform. Elon has already stated very clearly that ap1 hardware is currently maxed out. So, I "think" hw1 is basically going to get minor improvements, but overall I wouldn't expect anything major from the platform. And Elon has also pretty plainly stated they can't retrofit hw2 to hw1.

inconel | 13 mars 2017

I think MobilEye has a contract with Tesla to support HW1 cars. It was mentioned when they split.

JAD | 13 mars 2017

Clearly the FSD will require the 40x faster nvidia board etc, but AP1 currently runs on the mobile eye chip, so my question is, can a limited version of TeslaVision run on the MobilEye chip, giving us the same features we currently have, but with Tesla software, not MobilEye software. Seems like a more unified solution, but I have not seen anything definite, only implications from Elon of future improvements to AP1 (that most disagree with based on nothing but opinions) that led me to ponder if AP1 will use TeslaVision 'soon'. Not for FSD or anything, just basically do what it currently does, with Tesla software instead.

hoffmannjames | 13 mars 2017

I imagine at some point, Tesla will probably stop updating and supporting AP1 much like how Microsoft eventually stops supporting an obsolete OS. There would not be much point in still devoting resources to supporting AP1 once AP2 is fully enabled. People would still be able to drive AP1 cars of course but just would not get additional updates anymore. Furthermore, once FSD is enabled, I bet a lot of AP1 customers will want to upgrade to AP2 to take advantage of that.

bp | 13 mars 2017

Unless someone knows more about how Tesla is developing AP 2 software, my guess is...

The current software for AP 2 may be an adaptation of the AP 1 software, possibly still running on the console processor - and not the new NVidia processors that come with AP 2.

FSD will run on the NVidia processors, and when Tesla has made enough progress on the FSD software, they will likely shift EAP to run with the FSD software, but with restrictions - fewer cameras, possibly some geolocation lockouts (for areas where it's not safe to drive without all of the cameras enabled) and the requirement for the driver to maintain control with the steering wheel.

And, when this happens, that would effectively be the end-of-the-line for the AP 1 software - after that it would get a decreasing amount of software development and then placed into maintenance mode for critical bug fixes.

At least, that's how I would expect this to go. It would make sense to use as much of the AP 1 software with AP 2 right now, since Tesla is under time pressure to provide AP 1 level capabilities for AP 2. Plus, they may not be able to book the revenue for EAP purchases until they've delivered the promised functionality.

murphyS90D | 13 mars 2017

Intel bought Mobileye.

EVRider | 13 mars 2017

Even if it were technically possible, I couldn't see Tesla investing any effort in making TeslaVision work on HW1; it seems it would be a lot more work than just supporting the existing HW1 implementation with minor updates. As a HW1 owner, I really hope Tesla doesn't try to make TeslaVision work in my car; I'm very happy with how AP works in my car now.

kevin | 14 mars 2017

No. HW1 cars to not have the processing power to handle Tesla VIsion. They will continue to rely on MobilEye's EyeQ3 processor chip for camera functions that support Autopilot. Musk has said that the current hardware is reaching its limits.

BigD0g | 14 mars 2017

@BP there's no way it's currently running on the console processor, it's definitely being run by the supercomputer, the console has no access to drive features as a safety measure by Tesla to prevent against hacking, but completely agree on this is just a hacker together version of autosteer until they can get there feet on the ground and really start working this hardware out.

Haggy | 14 mars 2017

AP1 cars have computers entirely under Tesla's control. They control autopilot, including what they do with radar and sonar. Think of the part behind the rear view mirror as a black box. It has a camera and a chip, and it gives data to Tesla's software. Tesla can write software for AP2 that uses camera data, and has to do essentially whatever MobilEye did to take the camera data to come up with information such as where lane lines are, what signs say, etc. Tesla doesn't necessarily have to do that from scratch since the NVIDIA card might do some of it.

If Tesla could get raw data from the camera, or if they physically changed what's behind the housing, then it would go beyond whether the car's computer (AP1 vehicles) had the processing power. It would be a different processor without the innate capabilities of the NVIDIA.

Tesla could, in theory, update the camera housing (if it has the same footprint, but more likely needing a new windshield) and change the main computer. Then they'd be able to use the new programming consistently, but would have little advantage since they wouldn't have additional cameras. Plus, the wiring harness might not be consistent and probably isn't, so the new camera housing might not hook up without tearing much of the car apart.

Ultimately if this were practical, and even if Tesla could go a step further and swap the sonar sensors, it would still be a lot of work for a little gain without the other new cameras.

In terms of doing it all with software, even if it's theoretically possible, it would be impractical beyond consideration. Tesla went with the new hardware for a reason. If they had to act as if its capabilities weren't there so they could do everything from scratch, it would defeat the purpose of using the new hardware.

teslaliving | 17 mars 2017

I have neither AP1 nor AP2 on my car but I just wanted to mention that it's amusing that the AP1 guys are trying to figure out hot to get the AP2 functionality for their AP1 cars given the current state of AP2 which is still quite a bit behind AP1. While I have no AP, I'm hoping to fix that with a Model 3 shortly then i'll be on one side or the other :p

redacted | 17 mars 2017

@JAD - no, HW1 won't use Teslavision.

dborn @nsw.au | 18 mars 2017

@JAD, AP1uses Mobileye chip. So, NO.

Pungoteague_Dave | 19 mars 2017

People misunderstand what the Mobileye chip technology does. It isn't pure raw data - the firmware contains analytics that do the "seeing" - it "knows" speed limit sign reading, lane paint lines, vehicle formats, etc. Tesla software operates after that analysis. AP 1 does not evaluate "that's a truck, and that's a motorcycle" - Mobileye does that. Under AP 2, Tesla (or NVIDIA given the recent announcement?) is taking over that coding. This is why the transition is so hard - Mobileye has a decade head-start on its vision technology, and Tesla can use none of it with AP 2, must start from scratch. I think is extremely unlikely that Tesla is going start updating and updating Mobileye's old firmware on its own - to do so would violate a crapload of licenses, and as pointed out above, there is a transition agreement where Mobileye will continue to support existing customers. That presumably includes firmware updates. Now that Tesla has outsourced the OTA updating process, and added incremental updating, reducing data package size, my sense is that we may see more frequent software changes.

JAD | 19 mars 2017

Thanks for the clarifications.