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Did Elon let slip that vehicle to Powerwall is coming?

Did Elon let slip that vehicle to Powerwall is coming?

In today's shareholder meeting, while discussing the new mobile app feature which shows the energy flow between the grid, home, powerwall and solar, Elon said:
"So you can see the status of your Powerwall, you can see whether your solar system is functioning well, how much energy you are producing, it will show you how much energy you are producing, how much is being stored, how much is being consumed and how that relates to the car and so you have a really well integrated system that combines solar storage and your vehicle and I think there will be a few other things in the future that maybe people are not expecting as well."

This is interesting because the vehicle is not on the app screen, but Elon said "and how that relates to the car" and "that combines solar storage and your vehicle" and "I think there will be a few other things in the future that maybe people are not expecting".
Did he let the cat out of the bag?

psusi | 7 juin 2017

I don't think its physically possible. They could have just used the same PEM that drives the motor to charge the battery, but they didn't. Since they have a separate dedicated charger, that is probably the only thing hooked up to the plug. To get power back out, they would have to hook up the PEM.

SamO | 7 juin 2017

I predicted this in 2013.

Bighorn | 7 juin 2017

@SamO
I remember you being the only one to predict this back in 2013. Everyone in the world disagreed.

georgehawley.fl.us | 7 juin 2017

@SamO: I didn't join the forum until 2014 but I that was the rumor.

SamO | 7 juin 2017

Yup. Everyone. Except Nissan, which was already piloting V2G/I. But the rest was all me.

SamO | 7 juin 2017

Here is how I invented V2G before Elon joined Tesla.

"Tesla has beefed up their engineering staff again by hiring Alec Brooks as their new Director of Vehicle Technology.
Prior to joining Tesla, Alec had previously held the role of Chief Technology Officer at AC Propulsion where he contributed to the development of the ground-breaking tzero prototype electric car and also led the first-ever vehicle-to-grid demonstration project with support from the California Air Resources Board and the California grid operator, the Cal ISO. He continues to be a proponent for, and expert in the field of, both vehicle-to-grid program development as well as public policy as it relates to the development of alternative fuel vehicle technology, including benchmarking electric vehicles against fuel cell alternatives."

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/27/alec-brooks-joins-tesla-as-director-o...

SUN 2 DRV | 7 juin 2017

Keep in mind that there are many styles of V2G smart integration projects that DON'T involve sending energy OUT of the car. Timed charging, ancillary services (eg frequency control), Demand Response

Charging an EV is a huge load, that's also dynamically controllable with very short response time. Those are very valuable capabilities that can merit financial benefit, even without the car sourcing any actual energy.

Most of the hits against V2G related to increased battery usage and charge cycles. But smart charging (sometimes called V1G) offers many of the same financial benefits by controling WHEN and HOW the EV charges without introducing the extra warranty risks of V2G energy export.

bb0tin | 7 juin 2017

@psusi
It is possible via a Powerwall change.

@SamO
Please provide a quote that you predicted Tesla would allow Vehicle to Grid.
I believe that you did not such thing.
I have previously created a thread detailing why Tesla should do this and gave a detailed analysis of the reasons
why.
eg:
bb0tin | July 28, 2016
@garry
I created a thread on this very topic several weeks ago.
Tesla have stated that they will not connect the car to the grid, but they have not stated that they will not connect the car to the Powerwall. I went through the reasoning and numbers to show why vehicle to Powerwall to grid makes sense, and does not have the drawbacks that vehicle to grid has.
In summary, I agree with you, think that Tesla should do it, and am expecting that they will do it with Powerwall2 (coming very soon) or Powerwall3.

Bighorn | 7 juin 2017

Three years late

SamO | 7 juin 2017

https://forums.tesla.com/fr_CH/forum/forums/solar-city-scty-better-stock...

SamO | 9 juin 2013
How about if they provide HPWC connections to a fleet of Tesla cars for employees and use the cars for battery backup.

SamO | 7 juin 2017
bb0tin | 7 juin 2017

@SamO
Your first quote is not a prediction. A prediction is saying that something WILL happen, and in general requires a time frame. Besides that, it said via the HPWC.
If you would like to state:
Tesla will provide V2G via the HPWC within the next ? years, then that is a prediction.
Please replace ? with a number and make your prediction.

Your second link has many posts by you. Would you please quote the post which predicts V2G please.

PS:
I have previously predicted that Tesla would introduce V2G via the Powerwall2 or Powerwall3. We will have to see if Powerwall3 allows it.

juangp | 9 mai 2019

Any update on PowerWall3 (PW3) with V2G/H

datsvetkova25 | 18 mai 2019

They could have just used the same PEM that drives the motor to charge the battery, but they didn't. Since they have a separate dedicated charger, that is probably the only thing hooked up to the plug. https://www.kissanime.vip/

Goose | 18 mai 2019

Oh my.

I wonder if any of the old timers just got a chill like I did reading an old bb0tin post and his confrontational style.

SCCRENDO | 18 mai 2019

@goose. I guess this shows that the style worked for him in the short term but does not have longevity

Ross1 | 19 mai 2019

Hey I think I saw bb0tins car in NZ this week (I am across from Aus)

Goose | 19 mai 2019

@ross ... do you have proof? Do you have a photo? Show us that you really were in NZ.

LOL

greg | 19 mai 2019

@Ross1,

Last I read bb0tin had stated he had lost his house when his Tesla based Taxi business collapsed due to lack of customers and Tesla making him pay to Supercharge.
And was moving out of town to lick his wounds. Maybe he did maybe he didn't.

So who knows.

He did have that registration plate same as his forum name on an old shit box of an ICE car years ago when I came across him. So presumably if you saw that number plate he was driving the vehicle it was on.

Ross1 | 24 mai 2019

He lost his house and about 5 Tesla cars, kept one MX I believe and moved north to the country hoping to do Airbnb. To use his people skills.
The issue was that he expected to run a fleet of Tesla taxis, on the basis of free supercharging, but Tesla cut him off because they dont provide free to commercial operations. It surprises me that there was not enough money in it to pay for charging.
The cars were repossessed at like half their value, hence the house went.

All this is what I read on the internet, so it must be true.
Anyway, google Bernie Bromell Tesla airport hire car

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/tesla-taxis-mixing-ordinary-...

the One Hundred Percent Electric Company (OHPEC)

bb0tin | 25 mai 2019

@greg
I stopped operating the fleet of Tesla vehicles because Tesla would not allow any new vehicles to Supercharge at all. This was a world-wide ban. It was no due to a lack of customers. It was not due to having to pay for Supercharging. This decision was made before there was even a Supercharger installed in New Zealand. Your statements are entirely false.

bb0tin | 25 mai 2019

@Ross1
I have not lost my house.
I am not moving north.
The non-profit was always going to pay for Supercharging and did not want, and did not use, free Supercharging.
The cars were not reposessed and certainly not for half their value.
ie. your post is a load of bunkum

bb0tin | 25 mai 2019

@greg
PS: The 'old shit box of an ICE' you refer to was a new Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

SCCRENDO | 25 mai 2019

It is interesting how @Ross keeps ragging on @bb0tin. He has been trolling these boards for years. What people should note is that he likely still has not invested in a Tesla. @bb0tin is a committed environmentalist and it is admirable that he tried to start a Tesla Taxi fleet. While we certainly have issues with his personality his commitment to EVs and Tesla needs to be applauded. I for one am particularly saddened that his venture failed.

greg | 25 mai 2019

@bb0tin

The Shit box ICE I refer you to having was a long time before that.

So long before, that Outlander PHEVs hadn't been invented yet.

And yes it was a literal [Japanese piece of shit] box of an ICE car with your BB0TIN number plate on it.

Can't comment on @Ross1's information or sources.

But this follow up story from the New Zealand National Business Review (NBR) in Feb 18 last year supposedly lays it out pretty clearly, with copious quotes from you as to what you say went wrong and were doing.

https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/auckland-man-bets-his-house-all-tesla-taxi...

The nub of the story is this:

"Mr Brommell is also going to execute his worst-case scenario plan and sell his home in well-heeled Half Moon Bay in Auckland’s eastern suburbs, which was used as collateral for his business loan. He says he’ll move to small-town Raetihi in the central North Island, where he’s looking for a property with Airbnb appeal."

So you say you didn't sell your house, & didn't move out of town?
Good news then I suppose. Maybe the NBR got it wrong?

You also said in that story you could count regular customers on the fingers on your hand(s).

I admit maybe I got the part wrong about Tesla making you pay to Supercharge.

But in essence your business *was* operating on the model of making liberal & extensive use of Free public charging - whether by necessity or desire it doesn't matter. That has/had severe downsides as you have found.

Maybe Tesla blocked you from using their public superchargers - but as you admitted - thats a corporate not local decision, made offshore. And it wasn't the case that any superchargers were on offer when you ordered your fleet from them. And when Tesla did finally have that facility on offer, the rules had changed over who could use them.

Actually, I agree with your assessment there, and I can't see why they did that given in NZ you pay for use of all Superchargers. But its their policy to make and change. And clearly they did.

All I can say is that maybe you should have foreseen the recharging issue and invested in your own [Non Tesla] fast charger for your fleet to use instead buying an additional Model X when the time/distance penalty of recharging using slower public 50kWh charging became clear?

Charge.Net do offer paid charging but agree its no better than the free offering and is expensive relative to home charging. What kills public charging is the time to recharge and lack of charging stalls available - generally not the cost.

Teslas policy is they won't sell their Superchargers to their customers either.

And in the taxi business empty running is a huge cost to be allowed for in time, driver income and vehicle expenses.

But maybe this is all nothing but fake news to you?

Still losing $50K per car, on 5 cars, as you said when you sold them off? That still hurt right?

It is unfortunate you had to do that. So someone got a good deal on 5 used Model X's

Or is yet more fake news from the media too?

All up, I stand by my comments above - the reported facts make it clear.
It wasn't Tesla's fault the business failed. The cars didn't break down.

greg | 25 mai 2019

@SCCRENDO - I won't comment for @Ross1.

It is a fact that bb0tin had tried to walk the talk, and failed.
I don't offer him any negativity and only offer support for trying to do that.

It is however clear from the news coverage he got that his level of expectations as to what he felt he should get/have got "as of right" right from the initial business start up, and subsequently during its operation did not fit with the reality that we all live or operate in today nor will anytime soon.

For those of us who have dealt with him here on the Forums, that is maybe not surprising.

Whether it was a marketing failure, or wrong business model, at the wrong time/place - who knows.
The prices bb0tin stated he charged were and are competitive.

But clearly the fast charging situation he faces is not at all suitable right now for the sort of EV only taxi business he offered, to thrive. And the existing taxi businesses in his chosen market can and do operate a very closed shop arrangement - and have done for years - so there is that aspect to the issue as well.

These all were not however, unknown or unknowable issues. And thus would have been apparent and should have been taken into account up front.

greg | 25 mai 2019

@SCCRENDO (part 2 - thanks Mollom!)

My assessment is the business model bb0tin had was fundamentally flawed because it was based on having Fast (Super) charging access provided by third parties - whether Tesla or someone else, available 24x7 on tap. And this was needed to keep the expensive Model Xs on the road earning income as much as possible.

The inescapable fact is with a dozen or less regular customers and the lack of access to hotel or airport taxi ranks for casual hires. It was [always going to be] a difficult, if not insurmountable set of obstacles.

Still one day, it will be possible to operate such a business. Whether bb0tin is involved with doing that or not, time will tell.

Either way I wish bb0tin well in his future endeavours, where ever and whenever they may be.

bb0tin | 25 mai 2019

@grep
Firstly, the effort you put into following my life, trolling me, denigrating me and basically just being the biggest prick you can towards me, is pretty sad. you really should get over your unhealthy fascination with me.

You do not know what you are talking about with regards to OHPEC. Your interpretations of what happened to OHPEC are false

Up until Tesla announced their world-wide ban, Tesla and myself had been having multiple discussions, over several months, about getting the charging infrastructure OHPEC needed. Tesla had led me to believe, up until the morning that the ban was announced, that it has hopeful that Tesla would provide what OHPEC required. My understanding is that Tesla discussed OHPEC at the meeting which decided on the ban, since I was asked by Tesla to provide a document to be given to all members of the meeting beforehand. Ulitmately, Tesla chose to ban all commercial use world-wide rather than pivot to support those commercial operators using their vehicles. Had Tesla not introduced their ban, OHPEC would still be operating, NZ would perhaps have had a large scale 100% electric passenger service by now, Tesla would have sold hundreds of Model S/X to OHPEC, NZ would have more Superchargers installed, Tesla would be making a good profit on those Superchargers and carbon emissions would have been reduced. I beleive that Tesla's decision was the wrong decision for Tesla, the public and the climate.

greg | 26 mai 2019

@bb0tin.

Its sad you feel you are being targeted by me or I'm being the biggest prick around here.

I think there is a long list of people ahead of me in both those departments.

As for following you around or knowing what you are doing - with your vanity plate matching your forum name its easy to notice. As @Ross1 from AUS pointed out.

My comments on the situation with OHPEC are not invented or made up, and are in fact, based on all your public comments. The very ones *you* made to the media.

You have put it all out there for the public to read. I didn't "Dirty Raincoat" it up as you suggest.
I read a few issues of NBR and you came out of the woodwork.

Nor do I misinterpret your public comments. Others may have done that, but I'm just saying what they wrote that I read. And if they misquoted you - talk to them.

That aside.

I agree if Tesla had decided the other way to allow commercial supercharge use, you might still be in business.

But they didn't. You made a big business bet they would. It didn't pan out. These things happen.

You're not alone in having been shafted this way by Tesla.

Tesloop in the US have the same issue too. Thats why they recently shutdown operations. Perhaps later than you had to. But the same issue affects Dutch Tesla taxi services based at Schipol airport too.

I also said I agree Tesla actually have short changed you there.

But clearly Tesla has decided they don't want commercial users of their vehicles to take place, while also using their charging infrastructure. They obviously can't stop commercial usage. But they can deny commercial users supercharging if they choose. And they have.

However, much you disliked it, that decision was made 18 months ago now at a corporate/head office level.
It is/was their call to make. And doesn't look to be going to be undone.
The local Tesla people were likely caught out by it too.

Vector who provide the alternative (and free) public chargers you were using instead of Teslas to charge in the field, progressively banned commercial users like OHPEC as well.

Clearly, that was a bigger problem for OHPEC. Even you said that, as in - once the last Vector public charger ceased allowing commercial access you decided you had to close up shop.

Again Vector is allowed to make that call - as they stated about their EV charging network "is not intended to support Government or commercial operations".

None of this is in dispute - unless you say the media have totally misquoted/misunderstood you?

Many people have been caught out by being too soon with an obvious product or idea.

And in your case, the lack of proper charging EV infra for taxi operations is clearly a problem even today.
One day it might be possible.

Might even be possible now.

Now that Model 3 supports CCS type 2 connectors for supercharging, you can now control your destiny and buy your own high speed CCS chargers - an Australian company makes and exports these.

I'm sure they'd sell you one or two. And with the adaptor now also available to convert the Tesla EU/UK/NZ/AU Supercharger connector in your S/X into the same CCS Type 2 connector that Model 3 uses - you could likely use your Model Xs or Ss with them - and achieve in the field what Tesla and Vector denied you. Fast (super) charging.

So maybe OHPEC could be resurrected like a Phoenix - while giving it a potential "moat" to minimise possible competition?

You can have that suggestion/observation from me "royalty free". Make use of it as you see fit.

Anyway, best of luck with whatever you do in the future.

sleeper service | 26 mai 2019

After I got my Model 3 I sent Tesla an email about using my solar system with the Wall Connector. I have 22 SolarCIty panels with 2 Powerwalls. Tesla said to wire the Wall Connector to the circuit panel and there would be no problem. But, this may because I have 2 Powerwalls that can supply 60 amps which is compatible with one of the Wall Connector settings. The other Wall Connector setting is for 100 amps which would require 4 Powerwalls.

I got the impression that they are looking at alternatives.

By the way, my Model 3 is solar powered -- the grid has not been used.

SCCRENDO | 26 mai 2019

@Greg. I think you and Ross are being total dickheads. @bb0tin had his fair share of run ins here. But you cannot question his commitment to EVs. Like any business he took a risk. However he chose a business that would be beneficial to the environment unlike many financially successful businesses that abuse workers and are harmful to the environment. I’m betting that even if he were successful you would have had something negative to say. @Ross is well known for his strong arrogant opinions and not much of a Tesla or environmental supporter. How about you Greg. What contributions are you making to Tesla and the environment.

SCCRENDO | 26 mai 2019

@Greg. I think you and Ross are being total dickheads. @bb0tin had his fair share of run ins here. But you cannot question his commitment to EVs. Like any business he took a risk. However he chose a business that would be beneficial to the environment unlike many financially successful businesses that abuse workers and are harmful to the environment. I’m betting that even if he were successful you would have had something negative to say. @Ross is well known for his strong arrogant opinions and not much of a Tesla or environmental supporter. How about you Greg. What contributions are you making to Tesla and the environment.

bb0tin | 26 mai 2019

@grep
I appreciate that your last post was lacking in personal insults.

There is a heck of a lot that went on with OHPEC which is not in the media plus stuff the media gives the incorrect impression about. For instance, the video that Ross1 states that Tesla's generous charging was one of the reasons I was able to run OHPEC. This is incorrect. OHPEC did not want free Supercharging even when it was free. I had discussed this with Tesla both verbally and in writing at a high level i.e. at the Asia Pacific level. OHPEC wanted to pay 35c per kWh to use the Superchargers and this figure was included in the financial plans. 35c was the price that Tesla had set for when Model 3 would have to pay to charge. We did not care that the public could still use them for free. OHPEC also wanted to install our own 120 kW Superchargers and allow the public access to them. While I was discussing this with Tesla, Tesla was encouraging me to put in an order for 200 vehicles.

I had an agreement with Vector to use their chargers, even when they became for commercial use only, because Vector supported what OHPEC was trying to achieve. Unfortunately a member of the public made a written complaint that we were using the chargers and Vector then had to decide to enforce their policy or keep the exception for OHPEC. Vector chose to enforce their policy even though they would have preferred not to do so.

I suggested to Tesla that if they allowed CCS charging on Model X then I could install my own chargers and not use the Superchargers. Tesla would not comment at all on their plans for CCS. The way I hoped to install CCS chargers was via ChargeNet so that the public could use them as well.

I formed OHPEC as a non-profit to make a substantive reduction in emissions in NZ in order to help prevent a Climate Change catastrophe. Due to the continued inaction of the world, especially by those who proclaim to want action taken, I no longer believe that a Climate Change catastrophe can be avoided. I do not know if my heart is in in for another round to change that situation.