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Same size battery

Same size battery

Wouldn't it be a great idea for the Model 3 to all have the same battery size and same range ? Hear me out , for example battery has the range of 215-280 miles and if you pick 215 it's a certain price and later on you can pay for an upgrade and the can unlock the rest !

Shadowmist | 18 juin 2017

Maybe, depending on the stats. Like if the stats show

Shadowmist | 18 juin 2017

^ my entire message cut off after that... What I said was if less people opt for that upgrade. then the marginal cost of putting the larger battery in all the cars might not be worth it.

Frank99 | 18 juin 2017

it's an expensive way to do business, and relies on a significant percentage of people upgrading. Only Tesla knows how many S60's ever got upgraded to S75's in the similar program they ran for those. If a large percentage of people did that, then we might see it in the Model 3.

Lonestar10_1999 | 18 juin 2017

I disagree. Batteries are not like software where you can unlock premium features by paying additional fees. Every cell in a battery has weight that must be lugged around, affecting overall efficiency. If certain cells do not contribute to propulsion, then they have no purpose being installed at all.

mntlvr23 | 18 juin 2017

but they can be unlocked, but it is true that they are like really, really heavy software

bj | 18 juin 2017

Sigh. The battery is the most expensive part of the vehicle. Giving away batteries that are never monetized is a road to financial ruin. The short-lived Model S60 upgrade experiment was probably done as a real life test of your proposition and it failed.

It won't happen in Model 3. End of.

Xerogas | 18 juin 2017

+1 bj: I've read people claim "it doesn't cost Tesla any more to install larger batteries" so they think this model would work. Batteries are not software, folks. They have huge hard costs, and you can't download more. I have an original MS40, and I am positive Tesla lost money on my car. Maybe a future owner of my car will pay $13K to upgrade to 60, but that's a long time to wait to recoup that money. I am super-grateful to Tesla for honoring my original purchase price in such a creative way!

mntlvr23 | 18 juin 2017

The Model S might start including the two extra rear seats standard - but will then charge extra to "unlock" the back hatch.

ir | 18 juin 2017

The SW upgradable battery was only temporary until hey could phase out 40 / 60 kWh orders. They did the math and it was cheaper to build 1 less battery variant and also avoid surprise hikes to existing orders.

I suspect the cost savings are against Tesla for giving away gimped batterys in general.

Jcastillo18 | 19 juin 2017

Mntlvr sarcasm is not needed it was only a suggestion if it was possible

topher | 20 juin 2017

"Tesla lost money on my car. Maybe a future owner of my car will pay $13K to upgrade to 60"

You might ask what the current price is for upgrade. It is conceivable that they will drop the price if given a proper nudge.

Thank you kindly.

topher | 20 juin 2017

"it was only a suggestion if it was possible"

This suggestion has been made MANY times before, here. People are getting a bit weary of it. I think the sarcasm was meant in fun to ease that weariness.

Thank you kindly.

Rutrow | 20 juin 2017

Jcastillo18, you'll need a little thicker skin if you want to hang out in this forum. Mntlvr wasn't being too mean, just being humorous. You want to see brutal, go read the thread where the guy/gal suggested turbines for recharging on the freeway. Ouch!

I don't understand the logic of software "locking" additional battery capacity. The batteries are there, if you're lugging that additional weight but they're inactive it's going to hurt maximum range. And not really analogous to locking the software for EAP or FSD. Many of the sensors for those features have to be there just for the standard collision avoidance (CA) and emergency braking (EB). The Self Driving option is a premium feature that a lot of people are going to do without, especially on mid-priced platform like the M3, but the additional sensor installation above what CA and EB need is probably more economical to install on all vehicles instead of custom configurations. I'm guessing a significant cost to Tesla for FSD is liability insurance on cars that opt for it before it has a track record of reliability and effectiveness.

dsvick | 20 juin 2017

@Rutrow - " You want to see brutal, go read the thread where the guy/gal suggested turbines for recharging on the freeway."

I remember that one, that was fun :)

ReD eXiLe ms us | 20 juin 2017

Rutrow: The primary advantage to buyers of a software locked battery pack is that of faster Supercharging, the secondary advantage is that they can fill their cars to 100% on a more regular basis. A third advantage is that they may have more horsepower available to them in a car with a limited battery pack than they would in one that had the actual amount of maximum capacity. For instance, the original Model S 40 was to have a 235 HP, 310 lb-ft torque motor, but achieved a higher rating because the car used a larger 60 kWh battery pack that was software limited to a usable 40 kWh.

"In 2013, Tesla canceled a 40 kWh version of the car due to lack of demand, stating that only 4% of pre-orders were for the 40 kWh battery option. Customers who ordered this option instead received the 60 kWh pack, with charge software-limited to 40 kWh (139 miles, 224 km[112]). It has the improved acceleration and top speed of the bigger pack and can be upgraded to use the full 60 kWh for US$11,000.[113]" -- Wikipedia

[112] "2013 Tesla Model S (40 kW-hr battery pack)". fueleconomy.gov. Retrieved 2016-01-13.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=33612

[113] "Tesla Model S Sales Exceed Target" (Press release). Tesla Motors. 2013-03-31. Retrieved 2013-04-26.
http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/tesla-model-s-sales-exce...

"Customers that pre-ordered the 40 kWh model will still get what they ordered, but instead their new Model S will come equipped with the larger 60 kWh battery, but with its output limited to 40 kWh via the software. That tweak will reduce range from the claimed 230 to 160 miles, but as a consolation prize, the Model S will retain the 60 kWh model's bump in performance. That means a better 0-60 mph time (5.9 vs. 6.5 seconds), a higher top speed (120 vs. 110 mph), with 302 horsepower and 317 pound-feet of torque, up from the entry-level Model S' 235 hp and 310 lb-ft of twist." -- WIRED

www.wired DOT com/2013/04/tesla-model-s-40-kwh/

Rutrow | 20 juin 2017

Interesting ReD. On the limited packs, is it an inactivated node in the pack? or is it a limit to the maximum charge on each cell?

Jcastillo18 | 20 juin 2017

Now I want to find the turbine recharge freeway post lol

Jcastillo18 | 20 juin 2017

Now I want to find the turbine recharge freeway post lol

Rocky_H | 20 juin 2017

@Rutrow, Regarding how the software limited packs work, it's not inactive groups of cells. All cells still charge together. It's just a really simple trick of renaming the scale of the % full measurement. There is a certain amount above that is being "removed", and then the lower portion is redefined as the 0 to 100% range. So when the fake 60kwh pack says 100%, if you were to look behind the scenes at the actual state of the physical battery pack, it's only about eighty-some % full.

Rutrow | 20 juin 2017

Rocky_H, thanks for explaining it to me. Now I have a suggestion for Tesla about that. Instead of leaving the top 20% uncharged, you should just make the bottom 20% unavailable to the 60kwh customers. That way you could up-sale the larger capacity battery via cell phone signal to people stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Tesla customer service agent: "Well, if you'd like to upgrade to the 75kwh battery today for only $3000 I can throw in an instant 60 miles of additional range? Will that be Visa or MasterCard?"

Rocky_H | 20 juin 2017

@Rutrow, While that would be a potential one-time plus, here's the actual plus that people get to use very frequently without doing the upgrade.

Battery packs have to slow down the charging speed as they get more full. At Superchargers, we refer to it as tapering. By the 70, 80, 90% level, charging is slowing down a lot. With the fake 60kwh battery having empty room at the top, it can run almost full speed up to 100%, because it's not actually full at that point. It keeps Supercharging much faster, which is an unintentional benefit.

bj | 20 juin 2017

@Rocky_H - which is another reason why Tesla, unless it has a financial death wish, should not and will not do this.

To give people $5000 of batteries for free and for which Tesla might never get *any* money back basically destroys whatever profit margin they will make on Model 3. Then to make things worse, that customer enjoys the "upside" of faster charging rates because the battery physically has more capacity than what's on the nameplate.

So that customer gets a great benefit without paying Tesla an extra cent, and removes much if not most of any incentive for that customer to actually stump up the cash and pay Tesla for the additional battery capacity.

It's totally nuts that people keep repeating this idea as if it will work commercially. It doesn't, it won't, and Tesla will not do it on Model 3.

iSpanglish | 20 juin 2017

Loved the preface at the beginning "hear me out" as we all had our pitchforks lol

Rutrow | 20 juin 2017

I had already lit my torch by the time I read the second line.