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Battery 60 - range for commute?

Battery 60 - range for commute?

Hi, i'm hoping to get an answer to a real world drive question. I've seen several Tesla's now on the road and they are usually cruising along at 60ish mph. What if i'm lucky with all that downtown LA traffic I experience and want to go 80ish for my 95 miles roundtrip commute? The calculators all appear to go to 65 - just wondering for my own knowledge.

Question: What would the range be on a 60 battery if I traveled from OC to LA roundtrip at 80 mph?

glaserud | 4 marzo 2013

See this blog entry (graph halfway down): http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

KevinR.co.us | 4 marzo 2013
Cal Okie | 4 marzo 2013

Those stats appear to be for the 85kw car and top out at 65mpg. Hoping for an example at 80ish.

EVTripPlanner | 4 marzo 2013

I have spreadsheets/tables at http://EVTripPlanner.com/calcs.php - includes estimates of actual range on each battery at different speeds. Soon will have "Trip Energy Estimator" that should be within 2-3% (vs. 20% error or more using manufacturer averages).

mbcaffe | 4 marzo 2013

I have a 60 and drive about 60 miles roundtrip. I drive with speed of traffic 70-80 and use about 75 miles of rated range. I can give you exact kwh tomorrow after I reset my trip meters. Last week I drove about 100 miles (west sfv to valencia to staples center and back to sfv). I don't remember exactly how miles I had left, but I had zero anxiety. I do not that range drops significantly when going 85. Sorry for not being very precise.

Cal Okie | 4 marzo 2013

I appreciate your help - all of you. I'm not looking for precision as much as not wanting to get stuck somewhere if I leadfoot it on my commute. I'm looking for more what is possible....thanks

Salman | 4 marzo 2013

@Cal Okie, the graphs in the blog post (@glaserud's comment) go to 80 mph. The second graph on that page (Battery wh/mile vs. constant speed) is interesting for us 60s because the energy consumption of an 85 will be very close, but we can expect to 60 to use slightly less, because it's just a little bit lighter. So, the line on the graph for the 85 could be considered a pessimistic upper bound, and it says at 80 mph, the consumption is 400 wh/mile.

So what does 400 wh/mile mean for range in a 60? At standard charge (90%), it's 54 kWh / (400 wh/mile) = 135 miles, with nothing to spare. That's one graph point, you can determine others based on your prefs (i.e. max charge, 5-10% spare capacity, etc.).

Cal Okie | 4 marzo 2013

Ok, that is very interesting. So that gives me some wiggle room if on the rare day there is no traffic (OK, extremely rare day).

Could you expound a little bit on the standard charge (i know off topic). Do you not charge to 100% capacity?

Objective1 | 4 marzo 2013

You can charge to "Range Charge" (100%) and not damage the battery much if you finish charging just before you plan to drive and don't keep the car at full charge for very long (because once you are driving you are drawing the battery down below full).

Salman | 4 marzo 2013

@Cal Okie, Standard charge charges to about 90%, max charge to 100%. It's not recommended to use max charge frequently, as it will reduce battery life. Check out page 17 of the owner's manual, if you have access to it (if you can see a "view manuals" button on your "My Tesla" page). Here's some info copied from page 17 (pardon the formatting):

• By default, Model S charges to the STANDARD charge level, which provides the fastest charging time and maximizes the life of the Battery by charging it to less than its full capacity.
• To drive as far as possible, change the charge level to MAX RANGE. Although this setting charges the Battery to full capacity, using it frequently reduces Battery life.

But the topic has been discussed extensively on other threads, so search for them to get more info.

Salman | 4 marzo 2013

BTW, @nickniketown has posted that link before. It provides no additional information beyond the blog post, but makes lots and lots of assumptions in order to extrapolate the tables. He also can't/won't give attribution to the author of that link, which calls into question both his (and the link's) objectivity.

jat | 4 marzo 2013

Not to mention it was dated before the first Model S shipped, so is strictly theoretical.

But the best approach is simply to flag all NNT's posts so they go away.

ThomasK | 4 marzo 2013

Cal Okie,

I have a 60 kwh car, and I drive 80 mph all the time, I would say the rated range discounted by 15% has been a generous assumption.

In other words, if the rated miles say 185 miles (the standard charge), it will drive easily around 150 miles.

I've not been shy about pushing the car. I also have found, ironically, that using the cruise control actually makes the range worse (after you get used to driving the car, taking advantage of regen, etc.)

Good luck with your purchase. No regrets. This car is really something else.

c.bussert67 | 4 marzo 2013

One thing I like to point out when it comes to the speed/distance/efficiency/range thing, is that things average out...
I pushed my S hard doing a Vegas run. Harder each leg, as my confidence grew. I used my GPS to track current/average/Max speed. I would like to say that I drove 80-85 MPH on my most aggressive leg living in the left lane for 120 miles. With only 300 ft elevation change it was relatively flat. I only used 334 Wh/mi.
No graph in the world, or physics at that point would make those numbers come true. What I haven't told you yet is that the GPS showed a Max speed of 89, but and AVERAGE speed of only 66.4! So now the numbers start to line up again. Even though I was cruising as fast as the fastest car on the freeway, when traffic comes into play, the average drops and the efficiency goes up. Just make sure you read way ahead and use the regen to slow the car.
So in the end, all the car saw was a 120 mile trip at 66 MPH...
Hope that helps put things in perspective.

EVTripPlanner | 4 marzo 2013

I have created some charts showing estimated range at different speeds at http://EVTripPlanner.com/calcs.php

EVTripPlanner | 4 marzo 2013

Oops - here is the chart based on extending published curves showing Wh/mile:

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Cal Okie | 4 marzo 2013

Does traffic help or hurt mileage?

KevinR.co.us | 4 marzo 2013

It should help a little with regen. You are not really using any energy (unlike an ICE) sitting in traffic (not going much of anywhere either).

c.bussert67 | 4 marzo 2013

Cliff, that looks good to me. Driving around 65 avg speed nets me rated range like your chart shows.

Cal, traffic will help lower your avg speed and therefore extend your range. Only catch is you must avoid using the brakes. Gauge the traffic well in advance, leave good gaps and let the regen work its magic. The S is most efficient around 35 MPH.

diegoPasadena | 4 marzo 2013

Cal Okie,
I drive from Pasadena through downtown to the Westside a few times a week. Traffic actually helps the range, because you wind up driving more slowly. But with my normal driving (Not really 80ish, but I generally try to be the second fastest car, so the CHP has a better candidate than me) I leave with a 185 range and get back with about 122 miles. It's a 59 mile round trip.
For a kick in the pants, BTW, take it up the 110 from downtown to Pasadena a 2am one day. No traffic. You'll know what I mean.

Pungoteague_Dave | 4 marzo 2013

Good luck getting 265 out of an 85 at 65 mph. More like 190.

Darmok | 4 marzo 2013

We did just under 170 miles in our 60 kWh from Barstow to Las Vegas. We did 70 mph on the I-15 stretch with four people in the car (two kids). We range charged at the SC in Barstow, but had 25 rated miles to spare at the end. That's with a net elevation gain of about 1,000 feet and two big hills.

Amped | 4 marzo 2013

The 60 is fairly close to the Roadster polt in these charts,
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-efficiency-and-range

Amped | 4 marzo 2013

oops, that s/b plot

scole04 | 4 marzo 2013

I have a 60 kWh. Charged it to 190 a full standard charge. I live right outside of DC and was going to hang out with friend that lives near the Delaware Supercharger about 100 miles away. I first went to Reagan to pick up my gf then to College Park to pick up a friend at UMD then drove averaging 70-75 all the way to the Delaware Supercharger. Made it with 22 miles to spare. I think your fine, if I didnt make those two stops out of my way I would've had more.

CC | 4 marzo 2013

I have a 60 kwh as well with single charger, pano, tech, child seat, air suspension, 19" wheels.

My numbers are very similar to the folks who posted. 15% loss of range by going 65 to 75 mph range is pretty close to what I get. So I left home with 180 mi rated, drove 65-75 mph (occasional 80-85mph, you just can't help it with this car) for 130 miles round trip and came home with 20 miles to spare, lost about 30 miles. Which if comparing to ICE cars, that's about 1.5 gallons of gas :)

Did anyone range charge the 60kwh battery yet? How much range do you get with range charge?

c.bussert67 | 5 marzo 2013

Pungo, you should have breakfast with me some morning. I eat lucky charms and get rated mileage, and then some, all the time. Or maybe it's just this California weather that the S loves so much!
The most I've ever drained my battery was doing errands and meetings on my day off and racked up 235 miles and got home with 19, on a max rated charge of 261 when I left. Most of the mileage with up and down the 15 at 70-75mph. When I left my final destination, I had 100 miles of range and I had to cover 92, so I put the cruise control to 67 and made it home. Some of the freeway section speed limits are 65 posted and some are 70 posted, so I split the difference.

Darmok | 5 marzo 2013

I've range charged the 60 a a SC. It goes to 197 and stops but the bar keeps moving to the right and probably gives another 15-20 miles of rated range.

mbcaffe | 5 marzo 2013

trip information for last 62 RT and since I had the car. I tried to drive as fast as possible yesterday. Freeway speed 70-80, sometimes 85. about 70% fwy,30% city.

Distance Total Energer Avg Energy
2420 806 kWh 337 Wh/mi
62 20.4 kWh 330 Wh/mi

Hope this helps. I have no idea how this translates miles on std charge of 185-190 rated miles. I am sure someone on this thread is a lot smarter than I am.

CC | 6 marzo 2013

@ Darmok

Thanks for the info regarding range charge on the 60 kwh battery. Kinda strange that it only goes up to 197 with range charge for the 60kwh battery, it should at least go up to the EPA rated 208.

mbcaffe | 6 marzo 2013

I heard somewhere that they always keep 5% in reserve (95% of 208= 197)
standard range is 90% of 208. I don't remember if my DS said this or it was on one of the forums.

Darmok | 6 marzo 2013

@CC the miles stop at 197, but there is clearly more charging going on as the indicator bar is not all the way to the right when it first hits 197. The bar keeps moving to the right, but the miles stay at 197. Once you start driving, the range stays on 197 for at least 10 miles.

CC | 6 marzo 2013

I just figure if the 85 kwh battery with range charge everyone is stating around 265 to 270. Why the 60kwh only go upto 197 if the battery bar is still increasing? Time to give Tesla a call? :)

Darmok | 6 marzo 2013

No, I think that's just what it does. I will rarely range charge, there's clearly more range there, so I'm not going to worry about it.

EVTripPlanner | 6 marzo 2013

About the Barstow SC to Vegas route...I've been working on a "Trip Energy Calculator" that will be go into beta in a week or so at http://EVTripPlanner.com/. I ran that route through the preliminary estimator code, which accounts for hills, HVAC and speed and got 55.4 kWh total energy usage (a little more than what you saw). I didn't know where in Vegas you were going, so the route ended up being 156 miles vs. the 170 you mentioned. Also note that per Google Earth, Vegas is about 140 feet lower than the SC at Barstow. My calculator shows a total of 1959 meters of climbing but 2044 meters of descent - so lots of up/down, but a net drop. We're still tweaking, with intent of getting within 2-3% accuracy. We'll be looking for "crowdsourcing" to refine the numbers. Here is a sneak preview of what the energy calculator will show:

EVTripPlanner | 6 marzo 2013

Oops - here is preview image I meant to include above:

http://EVTripPlanner.com/EVTripPlanner-Barstow-Vegas-130306.jpg

Darmok | 6 marzo 2013

My destination was the west side of town. It is 168 miles from the Barstow SC, and about 800 feet higher than the Strip. However, I had forgotten to reset the trip odometer until about 7 miles from the charger, and at the time didn't realize there is a separate line showing data since the last charge. So, my data showed 160.7 miles, 48.8 kWh used, average 304 W/mi. Most of the trip was at 70 mph, but much of the last 10 miles was slower, and about 3 miles on residential streets. We did not need to use HVAC at all and had a healthy tailwind. Keep in mind mine is a 60 kWh, so it should use less energy than an 85.

Your data showing 55.4 kWh is another opportunity to suggest a SC in Primm. Even an 85 kWh X might have a tough time getting to Vegas if there is any cruddy weather. The highest passes are around 4,800 feet and do get snow.

EVTripPlanner | 6 marzo 2013

@Darmok - thanks for the additional info. The biggest factor that the calculator doesn't account for yet is weather (WIND) - when I apply a 0.9 speedfactor (basically assumes a tailwind of about 7mph) and adjust the destination (you must have been in the mountains someplace!) I get more like 50kWh. As you noticed, this uses Watts-vs-speed for 85 kWh battery. We're working on building out models for the other versions. Your trip used darn close to the Rated Wh/mi (308 for the 85S, but looks like it could be as low as 277 for 60S based on EPA range of 208 and usable energy of about 57.6 kWh).