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Experience at Gilroy Supercharging station

Experience at Gilroy Supercharging station

Hello,

I posted this awhile ago but I can't seem to find it. So here goes again.

We stopped at the Gilroy Supercharger station on a Monday mid afternoon. There are four
stations there. Two stations were occupied, one by a blue P85 and one by an unmarked blue model S.
Our charge took about one half hour. The unfortunate thing was that the other two cars had not moved.
Since this is an unattended facility we would hope that the honor system would be enough. Yet these
two drivers decided to use the spots as if they were merely parking places and spend their time leisurely
shopping at the outlet stores.

After I left there were still two stations available so there was really no harm done, but I think people
should be informed that these are not parking spaces. As these cars become more popular I'm afraid conflicts
will arise.

Your thoughts?

tobi_ger | 29 giugno 2013

Couldn't Tesla add some simple notice plaques at each bay like "Charging only, no parking" or similar - maybe in line of sight for the drivers.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

How do you know the other two vehicles weren't range charging? Is range charging not allowed at a Tesla station? That would certainly take longer than 30 minutes.

satyrias | 29 giugno 2013

What is "range charging" ?

Mark K | 29 giugno 2013

TM could add a notification feature to the app so you know when the charge is done.

Since TM's server knows the charge bay inventory and can infer if other cars are waiting, they could ping you with a message to accommodate other drivers. Technically fairly simple, and a good way to let you shop without having to think about it.

Jolinar | 29 giugno 2013

@satyrias
it means they are charging to full not just to some particular percentage as needed to drive to next supercharger.

satyrias | 29 giugno 2013

Then just say, "full charge".

Why are these guys making up words for nothing...

Sudre_ | 29 giugno 2013

They are not making anything up. They just actually read the manual for example page 17, "To drive as far as possible, change the charge level to MAX RANGE"

It does not say full charge.

The charging screen in the car actually says Max Range too so it's not a stretch to call it range charging. I am sure if you read on in the manual it will actually call it that somewhere.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

@ satyrias, that was really rude and inappropriate. I did not say or do anything to deserve that.

Shame on you.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

@ satyrias, people call it a range charge - I'm not the only one. Call it a range charge, or charging in range mode. It's the same thing. Nobody is making up words and you're the only one getting mad at everyone around here today. Relax.

Mike C | 29 giugno 2013

Gotta backup AmpedRealtor on this, his sarcastic response was in response to you saying "Why are these guys making up words for nothing" when anyone who reads these boards knows that "range charge" is the correct terminology originating from Tesla itself, although to be fair the recent 4.5 software update may have changed this.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

@ Mike C, I didn't say the words you quoted - Satyrias did. Scroll up. There was no sarcasm. He was putting me down as "making up words for nothing" because I used the term "range charging" which Satyrias says is incorrect because, according to him/her, it's called a "full charge".

So he is insulting me for being correct, and for his correction of me being wrong and misplaced. So for that I am an uneducated Realtor.

satyrias | 29 giugno 2013

I didn't get mad at anyone.

I just asked, what is a "range charge" since I couldn't get what it means.

And then I made a comment why are they making up a word or can't they say, "Full charge”, when someone explained it.

There was no need for you to jump in with your "Pee" comment here.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

Sorry @ Mike C, I totally misread your previous post. Please disregard my above message, I had it all turned around. I'm on my 2nd glass of wine after lunch. :)

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

Whatever we want to call it - full charge or range charge - my original point was simply that the other two cars may have been charging "to full" which would take at least 40 minutes. Since the OP was only there for 30 minutes, I don't think that meant the other two were necessarily being rude and using the stalls as parking places while shopping. I'm trying to give the other folks the benefit of the doubt is all.

AmpedRealtor | 29 giugno 2013

@ Satyrias, if you want to be verbally abusive perhaps this is not the proper place. You seem to be a very hostile person, I am not interested in conversing with you further. Have a nice day.

PatT | 29 giugno 2013

Just my 2 cents but are parking places that hard to find at these outlet malls? I would think that it would be more convenient to park nearer the stores. Most SC are located a bit out of the way.

petero | 29 giugno 2013

We are getting off subject. I traded e-mails with George Blankenship about inconsiderate "S" owners over staying their visits at store charging stations and supercharging stations (SC). I made three suggestions:

1. Avoid malls for SC as shopping can be a powerful distraction.
2. Create a software update to allow a fully charged car to be disconnected from a store or SC.
3. Future SC should have tandem parking and a longer charge cords along with #2.

George felt that upgrading smart phone technology will be enough (I disagree). He feels when it happens to them they will have a "consideration" epiphany.

Happy motoring.

joshuawrosenberg | 29 giugno 2013

The other two cars were there for well over an hour. I checked back. So even if they were "Range Charging" they would have over stayed their time. Why is it people seem to try and find why the posting is wrong instead of dealing with the question asked. Which is how is Tesla going to manage a line of cars rather than an occasional car looking for a supercharge.

I like the idea of some text to phone notification that your car has completed its charge and come get it ... But they have to come and get it.

Then there is the problem of the line itself. Who goes next? I did not see parking spaces for the on deck car.

I was there on a Monday afternoon. Not a busy time. Sunday late afternoon, might be an interesting time, when traffic is heavy and courtesy and mutual respect becomes more important.

satyrias | 29 giugno 2013

I have seen a notice at Evgonetwork charging stations.

If anyone uses that spot for parking purposes or doesn’t remove the car after charging, the computer will automatically call Tow truck and will tow it away, something along that line.

And there is a security camera on the top of the Charging station to monitor as well as there is a 1-800 number to call for assistance.

Tesla Supercharging stations can adopt the Tow away option if anyone misuses it. It is very simple to monitor automatically and take action. Everything is controlled by computers.

sgarapat | 29 giugno 2013

Hi Everone,
I was thinking about how to solve the problem of inconsiderate owners. I am an engineer and a technology enthusiast. I can't think of complete solution but a partial solution could be using the App. A text message might not be so clever. So the solution is using a push notification. If you are familiar with iOS you can incorporate push notifications in the App. So when the charge in the car reaches 5-8% less than user specified charge (ex : if the charge reaches 92-93% ; if the user specifies 70% charge, when the charge reaches 63-64% ) the user should get a push notification stating he should start reaching to his car so that he is not gelding up others. Adding push notification feature is very simple, I am a beginner iphone programmer but I have incorporated push notifications in my app in 3-4 days of learning using online resources. So it is very easy on the implementation side. The limitation is if somebody doesn't have an iphone, they might have an android, windows or blackberry- I am not sure what those platforms have in terms push of notifications implementation.

Also tesla could use the software to lock the car for super charging from next time. That is if a owner doesn't attend his vehicle after reaching his specified charge in 10-15 mins, they can not use super charger next time for a certain period of time (1 month or so etc). This is a way of penalizing inconsiderate owners and the fear of loosing super charging capability for next 5-6 weeks might motivate people to come back and move their cars.

Please hop in and share your opinions on my thinking and throw in some ideas if you have any.

satyrias | 29 giugno 2013

The best way is to enforce the Tow away rule. That is what evgo doing and there is a warning. Every day I see that charging station. I don’t see anyone parking there and no problem of misuses.

Do any of you park your car in a prohibited area with a sign of Tow away?

All those applications are not pragmatic. What if he doesn't have a cell phone or any charge in the phone or network interruptions, so on...

If you know someone will Tow away your car soon after it is charged, then you will be there to take care of it.

Do you park your car in a gas station and go away now?

sia | 29 giugno 2013

+1 @petero : Good ideas and thanks for sending it to Tesla management.

+1 @sgarapat: You took the words out of my mouth!

I think Supercharging is a privilege for the courteous Tesla owners. Those who abuse this privilege, should be denied this service for a period of time. I know most people are courteous and considerate to others, but that 10% need a little encouragement to be nice. :-)

stimeygee | 29 giugno 2013

This is definitely something that Tesla has to be on top of; if I had to wait for someone to return from their shopping trip before I could charge my car - with my two infant children inside - I would lose my mind. And more to the point, my wife would make me sell my Tesla the next day.

Kleist | 29 giugno 2013

@stimeygee - sell your MS today. If you are losing your mind if you have to wait until someone else is finished charging... It is not worth loosing your mind.

sgarapat | 29 giugno 2013

@satyrias: I am sorry to dis-agree but towing a vehicle is too harsh. This could eventually lead to bad press which is not good for Tesla. I said my solution is not complete (it's a partial solution) also atleast in US most of the people who could afford a car like tesla would be using a smart phone I guess. So my solution might act as a catalyst for the owners to be considerate for others. By any chance (some unknown emergency ) if a owner couldn't return to his vehicle and his car looses supercharging he could reach tesla to re-activate it with a proper explanation but tesla keeps a count and log information on the number of times a owner failed to return. So the owner knows he can not do it all the time and get a away with it.

Towing a model S would create great discomfort to the inconsiderate owner who could be stranded (with his kids and family). So the inconsiderate owner should be penalized not punished. Towing is a punishment and people get mad and upset and eventually could lead to bad Internet publicity and I am sure we would be seeing a post in these forums where owners use to express their anger. So I believe penalizing is far better than whipping. I have been in teaching field for many years and when students (mind I have students from teenagers to mid 50 age groups) make mistake punishing them is not going to help but a reasonable penalty proved to be more efficient as it would caution the student and in ways helped them to be more focused on what he has to do in courses.

Brian H | 29 giugno 2013

satyrias;
'Range Charging' has been the term used on all forums, possibly even by Tesla in its material, as short for "max range charging". Examples go back years, e.g. http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/total-cost-ownership?page=1

Your lack of history and awareness of the forums disqualifies you from making such comments.

mdemetri | 29 giugno 2013

I just did a "range charge" to 268 miles (from 55 miles) with full juice at Gilroy. This took ~70 minutes. I also did a range charge at Harris Ranch a couple of days ago and because I was sharing the juice, it took over 2 hrs.

Thus, if a car is there for over 2 hrs, you cannot assume they are 'shopping'.

The real answer to the problem is what Tesla is already doing: faster and more supercharger's. Indeed, Gilroy is planned for more expansion.

satyrias | 30 giugno 2013

@sgarapat
“ Towing a model S would create great discomfort to the inconsiderate owner who could be stranded (with his kids and family).”

That is the exact reason, “the great discomfort”, nobody parks at a site with a sign of, “Unauthorized vehicles will be towed away” or “ Fire line” or “reserved” or any Tow away warning. They know what is to come, if they don’t heed the warning. Is there any problem in those locations?

You need to understand how human mind works. People respond to “discomfort”, better than any monetary punishment or an admonishment. You can’t apply a teacher student relationship with automobile behavior on the street. They are two different psychological situations. One behavioral approach doesn’t work for every situation.

As for the cell phone, you are thinking in terms of affordability of a $300 smart phone. There are lots of people I know don’t like to carry a cell phone in their pocket, including me. There are several reasons for it.

I have said it earlier; the eVgo charging station has a notice of their Tow away policy. Those who are using that spot are behaving like obedient kids in your class. No problem. No complaint.

tes-s | 30 giugno 2013

Do the superchargers not charge at full rate if multiple cars are charging at once, or is that dependent on which supercharger station?

I like the idea of a push notification - if others are waiting for the supercharger, everyone that is connected gets a push notification every 15 minutes reminding them that others are waiting.

bob | 30 giugno 2013

Wow.
Snowden is is limbo, Manning is on trial for his life. We who are electric car fans are trying to change the world against the headwind of unlimited funds and corruption. Yet we are bitching at each other like petulant children. The charging is free. The idea is revolutionary. Support it and do not sweat the small stuff. Be overwhelmingly happy you even own the damn car!

tobi_ger | 30 giugno 2013

tes-s
Two adjacent bays may get split power for charging so charging time could double. But I'm not sure if that is true for all SCs.

AmpedRealtor | 30 giugno 2013

@ joshuawrosenber, I was not trying to find something wrong with your post, I was simply proposing that we give the other vehicles the benefit of the doubt in the absence of absolute certainty. I'm reading about similar issues here and elsewhere, so it's become a more frequent irritation.

As Tesla ramps up Model S production, we are going to see more of these issues. What George said is probably going to come true, what goes around comes around. I get the impression that Tesla finds unsavory the thought of regulating the Tesla stations by imposing rules and/or penalties on owners. Personally I have faith that the vast majority of Model S owners are sensible, courteous and would not abuse the honor system.

Perhaps we should arm ourselves with chalk and write notes behind their cars on the pavement? A little humiliation might go a long way.. lol

AmpedRealtor | 30 giugno 2013

rd2 | 30 giugno 2013

lol! Great idea. I think towing is way too harsh, but leaving a terse note is totally warranted, and a notification app is also such.

I think other Model S owners should be able to call Tesla when they see a Model S occupying a SC station for too long, and Tesla should then be able to directly contact that owner to tell them to move their car. This shouldn't be too cumbersome for Tesla (in fact, it will likely be appreciated by the vast majority of their customers to have this kind of facilitation), and it bypasses the expectation that owners will leave a sign with their cell # on it.

rd2 | 30 giugno 2013

To add to my thoughts:

I don't think 'push notification' is sufficient. Getting a message that your car is done charging is not compelling enough for people to move their car. But getting a call or message that other Model S owners are literally waiting for your lazy ass to move is much more compelling, IMO.

tobi_ger | 30 giugno 2013

rd2:
Relying on a phone solution might be inconsequential:
a) the actual driver may be someone different then the one on file with TM (if automated)
b) people may either leave the phone on vibrate, not take it with them at all or put it in purse and wouldn't care.

TeslaTap.com | 30 giugno 2013

I'm sort of amazed at so many extreme views on what appears to be a non-problem. It sounds like very few here have encountered a full charging station.

I've only encountered one time where there was a line at Gilroy (a Sunday around 6pm), and everyone was very polite. We had 6 charging (two on L2 chargers nearby), and three waiting (including me). When I did get in, I left with less charge than I planned so another could get in.

If you pull in a minute after another and get the same numbered Supercharger (i.e. A and B slots), you're going to get a slow charge until the first one is full. Let's say both are close to empty. I can see it taking at least two hours for the second car to charge, since it gets a slower 30% rate until the first car is charged. (That's not quite true, it's more complex than that, but it's close to how it works).

My understanding is that with the new 20 minute for 150 miles of charge, even the first car will get a slower 30 minute for 150 charge if both A and B slots are full. Basically you have 120 KW for two stations, and it gets divided up based between the two cars. The fastest charge occurs with only one car between the A/B slots.

Also remember the charge takes longer as it gets near full. The 20/30 minutes for 150 miles is ideal, and occurs when the car is close to 0 miles left. 60/40 KW cars seem to take a bit longer too, maybe because they get to the slowdown threshold sooner?

So unless you were there when the cars pulled up and know the state of charge of the cars, you really can't know that the user may really need that time.

I often look at my phone app to see where the charge is, and somewhere like Gilroy, I'll even peek over at the cars at some point to see what's going on (i.e. cars waiting or not). It's common curtsey, and I'd hope most of us Tesla owners are also on top of what's going on.

If there are a couple of slots open, I'm not very concerned about taking longer or doing another quick errand. Often at Superchargers I don't see anyone else when I get there or leave, so it's not that big a problem. It's the Friday and Sunday late afternoon rush times that you might find it full. Even then, I've only had to wait 15 minutes to get in.

joshuawrosenberg | 30 giugno 2013

OK Maybe my example is flawed in some manner - people weren't shopping - their cars were both still "range charging" for over 2 hours. They were both involved in brain surgery and could not move their cars without loss of life. Fine...

Still the questions stand...
1. how is Tesla going to deal with people who over-stay their stay?
2. how is Tesla going to manage a line of cars?

They could design the Supercharging station to meet the maximum number of cars at peak times. In that way there is always a free Supercharger. But wouldn't that change over time?

I would not like to tow, because it leaves people without a car in unknown circumstances.

However, I was thinking of a variation on towing. Tow the car to a penalty space right across from the Superchargers. It would probably have to be locked or booted and attended by the towing company. The miscreant would have to pay to retrieve the car.

petero | 30 giugno 2013

TM will very likely never consider the towing option. To them, Superchargers (SC) is a freebie to earn lasting goodwill, kudos, and to really piss off Big Oil and Big ICE.
What TM should do is have a cell phone contact so that an owner who feels another owner is unfairly tying up a SC and not monitoring his phone App can call TM and TM can call the inconsiderate charger.

We experienced this in Newport Beach, unfortunately the store manager could not get a contact number from TM. The bottom line is, charging takes longer than you think. Some need more than 150 miles and want/need a free ‘full’ charge. When we abandoned charging at Newport Beach, CA store we drove to Hawthorne and we had to wait about 40 minutes for an open bay. Such is … life in the fast lane.

info | 30 giugno 2013

BrianH--How could you have missed "gelding". I thought towing was harsh but the guy who wrote about gelding was hardcore.

I have been to Superchargers at Harris Ranch, Tejon Ranch and Hawthorne. 90% or better of the owners are nice, considerate and interesting. I have no problem waiting and chatting with them. Of course, like most things, there are owners who feel that since they have purchased a Tesla and have the wherewithal to do it, they are entitled to special treatment and take it even in a group that contains other Tesla owners.

Towing is a bit harsh, but I endorse a phone registration when you start to charge. Simply pull in and put your cell number on the dash with the time you pulled in. If it is in excess of an hour the waitee could call and tell you that your charge is done. If there is no response or worse, an inconsiderate one, then ownership could be notified. I have suggestions about what ownership should do but it is a lot less harsh than gelding.

Kleist | 30 giugno 2013
satyrias | 30 giugno 2013

@joshuawrosenber

"Tow the car to a penalty space right across from the Superchargers. It would probably have to be locked or booted and attended by the towing company. The miscreant would have to pay to retrieve the car."

That is the perfect solution to deal with it. Nothing else is going to work in this situation. Someday, we may hear shooting at Tesla charger once lots of people own this car, if they don’t resolve it with strict policy. Human mind is lazy and sometimes some of them become arrogant too when they have lots of money.

Tow the car to another parking spot and pay that mean looking Tow Trucker the sum of $300 to $400. His kids and honey are not stranded either as someone commented above. No complaint. Everybody is happy.

Alex K | 30 giugno 2013

With all this talk of towing a Model S that has extended it's welcome at a supercharger, one must consider that the charging cable will most likely be locked to the car. This will require that Tesla be involved in somehow unlocking the charge port for the cable to be removed. I would hate to have the tow company attempt to cut the cable off to tow the vehicle.

sgarapat | 30 giugno 2013

Towing might not be a solution tesla might run into bad press but penalizing the owner by locking the super charging ability might motivate people. Also tesla doesn't want the owner to be staying all the time at car (for 70-90 mins). So a notification or a call or message before 5-7% of the specified charge might be convenience to the owner to start to his car. There should be a grace time of 10 mins after the charging is done. So at the least it reduces some waiting time for others. Most of the owners are considerate and I am talking about few owners who just park all day at will. Also because some is super charging he should not be forced to stay at vehicle, so the convenience he gets a chance to leave the vehicle to grab a bight or to got a restroom, or to take his kids to a food place etc. but notification or some form of communication might trigger the owner to Come back and move his vehicle.

P.S. I am the person who used the word "gelding". Iphone messed it up and I meant helding. Apologies.

jjaeger | 30 giugno 2013

I really can't relate to all the haters blasting away wrt SC towing etc... And way too much trash talking that I personally see zero need for - and therefore just folks spewing hot air to fill the forum. Admittedly, I've only charged twice at Gilroy - but have used the other SCs up & down CA multiple times and figure I have somewhere around 20 SC stops total. 90% of the time I've been alone - and on all the others, with one other car, with the sole exception of Hawthorne that had 3 of us. I enjoy the company and talking with the other owners and would report that for my 20 stops, Tesla is on top of things. Had been apprehensive when Harris Ranch was just the one stall, but now have zero anxiety wrt any wait. And if that does happen, then expect I'd would meet a few new friends in the process - and if it became prevalent then expect TM will expand the station or add another to siphon the load. Be patient and suggest we soften the tone wrt trying to fix what I view as a completely non-problem (IMO).

And in closing - if there is one thing that Gilroy may provide insight on - do NOT put SCs anywhere near metro areas. Keep them spaced out for inter-city travel as they are meant to be used for and all is well. Motor on.

justineet | 30 giugno 2013

My advise to local Telsa owners who live within 30 to 45 min and have access to charging at home....charge at home...if u need to use the supercharger, use it only for about 20-30min....leave the surperchargers for out of town or long distance travelers as much as possible.

joshuawrosenberg | 30 giugno 2013

@wrt
Here in the valley when we invent something good we often ask: Is it scalable? And what is the necessary magnitude of scalability; And what would make it scalable? Are rules of engagement necessary or not.

Apparently this is not your mindset. Notwithstanding pleasant anecdotes, I hope that Tesla is successful and that the scalability issues of Supercharger station are tested. Whether or not Tesla is on top of this is moot, this forum is a reasonable place to use our hot air to anticipate problems and brainstorm ideas and suggest solutions.

tes-s | 30 giugno 2013

Hopefully tesla will add capacity to meet demand - this is not much different to gas stations, which occasionally have a line. The difference is you can fill up the tesla at home.

My preference would be they not add stalls to existing locations, but rather add locations.

jjaeger | 30 giugno 2013

@joshuawrosenber - sorry, as a SC user, definitely in my 'mindset'. Have no issue w/ your original post. Will stick with the hot air label for towing, booting, keying, and a lot of other nonsense that fills this an numerous similar thread wrt SC usage. Be well.

Kleist | 30 giugno 2013

"My preference would be they not add stalls to existing locations, but rather add locations."
And that is happening close to crowded areas... Milford gets a twin in Darien this summer and Gilroy a twin a little south on 101 this fall.

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