any thoughts on whether or not the price will be negotiable?
Price negotiation is not a consideration when they can turn around and sell it to the next guy once you leave their office. When they're in full swing production, perhaps, but I wouldn't count on it for the first few years.
Similar comment to Mittar but I'd say all pricing is negotiable make an offer. You will most likely get turned down but it never hurts to ask right?
When they are only making 5000-7000 cars in the first year and they already are approaching the 5000 mark I don't think you'r going to get it any cheaper.
I'm not even sure if they're allowed to negotiate. That's actually one of the things that makes the car buying process nicer. You know you're getting the same price as everyone else and you don't have to make any special deals to get a good price. You pay what everyone else pays.
Tesla has stated a long time ago that the prices will be set. As they put it they have Tesla stores not dealerships.
I have wondered this also. Even if they are not a "dealership" they are still a store selling cars, which in any case, there is almost always a bottom line for the price and some negotiation involved. I see them being allowing very little flexibility but I would be a little surprised if there is no room for haggling.
You don't go to a food store expecting to haggle. You don't go to the gas station hoping that they will discount the price on the pump. The auto dealers' method has consistently earned them the dubious title of "Worst buying experience". I don't want to haggle, up or down. Set the price. I don't want a "deal".
No to haggling. I like the stated Tesla model. I will lose faith in the pricing if haggling occurs. Publicly announced sales, promotions, and perks are great. Chip and dent specials are also appropriate. They must stay very consistent. GM had problems trying to go to this model with Saturn due to historical precedent but a new company such as Tesla should do well and improve satisfaction.
GM spent so many decades crippled by the Peter Principle that it's a wonder it staggered on as long as it did. There was a chance in bankruptcy to clean house, but That One stepped in to save his union buddies' perks and give them the keys.
It's all downhill for GM from here. Again.
The last two cars I bought were from Fixed Price dealerships, and it completely changed the experience for the better. I intend to buy that way from here on out if I can. I'm willing to pay a small premium to support the business model.
When putting down my $5000 deposit, I tried to negotiate a free Tesla branded jacket. No dice. Against their policy.
There is a standard discount available to all reservation holders for the branded merchandise.
I think there will be no negotiation on the car.
While prices may be set by Tesla, those prices will
reflect reality and drop if required to move product,
just like every other thing that's sold. You don't negotiate if you don't have to, but whether you do so depends upon the market.
I hope not. Price negotiation is, in my opinion one of the worst aspects of buying a car. It just results in the dealer raising prices in case you don't negotiate. Tesla has mentioned quite a bit that they want to avoid the negative aspects of buying a car. Personally I would be shocked if there was any negotiation involved. That being said, I noted on the Roadster sticker at the Tesla store in Boulder a "deliver fee" of something like $1500, which is clearly a rip off. If there aren't negotiating they need to be honest with the way they price the car.
Every new car I have ever bought has had a delivery fee. Usually $500 plus. This is never included in the cost. This is only added on like a tax. The cost of delivery for a Tesla is certainly higher than a more common car brand.
The Roadster is also delivered right to your front door and they use a premium delivery service to make sure your car gets to you in good shape. That's why it costs so much. Still, it's expensive.
Sounds like "shipping and handling", or "tax and license".
ICE car dealers call it "dealer prep", or just brazenly put up a sign on the salesman's desk, "After finalizing on a price, a fee of $100 will be added for dealer markup". Or it's more with floor mats, or the car on the lot has package #6, $2196 extra, whether you want it or not.
I plan to pick mine up, eliminate the truck. Hope they don't charge me too much for that.
@William13 and @jfeister
You have to compare delivery fee, AKA destination charge, with like-priced cars in the same class, i.e. Maserati, Lotus, Lamborghini, Bentley... etc, then you will see that $1,500 is nothing unusual.
Everything is negotiable. I've bought many things, even at the Mall, where I asked for, and received a discount. e.g. jewelery. While I would rather not have to barter, I'd much rather not get gouged either. Maybe the the base price of the car is fixed, but what if I get the the 300 mile batteries? Maybe they can throw in the glass dome roof? If you don't want to barter, don't. But don't get upset if others get a "deal".
As for the these shipping/destination charges...just don't say, every other car has those fees. That charge is to get the car from the factory to the local dealership. The Tesla S is made in Fremont, and it's not shipped to ANY showroom/dealership. So this charge should be Zero! Now, if they are going to ship it to your house (optional), then of course you need to pay an EXTRA charge that would not be part of it's fixed base price.
Go to an Apple Store and try to negotiate an iPad 2 ... that will be the situation with Model S for years !
I got a jacket and a coffee cup when I got my roadster. I also "negotiated" price. Maybe you'll get the goodies after delivery. . .
Because its minus a motor and transmission the making of this car will eventualy decrease in price once the the other big companies get in on the act, .......... if they dont get greedy along the way
Made me laugh . . Doubt the price will ever be negotiable. Maybe in 10 years when there is some real competition.
Seriously though, I would be happy if Tesla gave us a fair price on the charging cables. Having to spend $2,000 or more on charging cables is a ripoff. It would be like Best Buy charging $250 for a 6 ft HDMI cable. Difference is, you can always get your HDMI cable elsewhere for $20. With the Tesla charging cable, you've really got no alternative (at least for now).
Model S will have standard charging connector so yes, there will be competition on this front.
Nicu, Yeah, standard charging connector for 110V outlet. You will get 5 miles range for every hour of charge. It will take 32 hours to completely charge the 160 mile battery. If you want to charge more quickly with 240V, you will be spending more than $1,000 for a special Tesla cable and connectors. Remember, there are many different types of 240V outlets (and connectors). You won't need these at most charging stations because the station will have a cable and standard J1772 connector. But at home, you will probably have some sort of (240V) outlet installed in your garage. Maybe a NEMA 14-50 (240V) outlet, which I plan to install. You will then need to purchase a special cable which plugs into that outlet and then into the car's J1772 receptor.
You cannot go into Home Depot and buy a 240V NEMA 14-50 to J1772 extension cord. Correct me if I am wrong . .
The connector I was talking about is the one on the car. If Nissan sells home chargers separately I think you could buy one of those. If there are no independent charger manufacturers, it means the market is too small to make a profit. Which then means Tesla is not overcharging. Yep, free market can be a bitch. But even if Tesla takes advantage of its wealthy customers, you have to agree they are fair-play to include a standard charging port / connector.
I'm pretty sure the Model S will take a standard J1772 connector. Nissan requires owners to purchase a "hard wired" 240V Nissan charging dock ($$). These are almost exactly like a public charging station (permanently attached cord/box to your wall), with J1772 plug for your car. They do not sell a portable 240V power cord. In the plug-in EV world there is no "standard" portable 240V cord. Maybe in 5 to 10 years, but not now. Tesla's portable 240V cord is $1,500. Various connectors (3-prong, 4-prong, etc.) are priced separately. btw-The roadster did not originally have a J1772 receptor on the car, so roadster owners have to purchase another $750 adapter (and get a software update) to be able to use most public charging stations (w/J1772 connector).
well Price is always negotiable, but some times not in the direction you want
Be aware that I priced J1772 equipment which is commercially available from various small companies. They all charge MORE, often 50% more, than what Tesla is charging, for the comparable product. Clipper Creek even does; their J1772 commercial line is half again as expensive as the stuff they made for Tesla.
So, frankly, I think Tesla's giving you a fair deal on cords. It's obviously cheaper to build 'em yourself like Martin Eberhard did... if you have the right equipment and expertise. But if you have to pay for that expertise and business overhead, it simply seems to cost quite a lot, right now.
If you disagree, start your own cord company and sell them cheaper... you have a business opportunity. J1772 is a public spec. :-)
"ClipperCreek introduces $995 LCS-25 residential charging station"http://green.autoblog.com/2011/06/16/clippercreek-introduces-995-lcs-25-...
I agree that buying a Tesla vehicle will be akin to buying an Apple product - there won't be any negotiations possible, primarily because they've marketed themselves as such from the beginning, and there won't be any non-Tesla dealers selling them. Even Best Buy, which sells Apple products, is not allowed to discount them or they'll lose the right to sell them. Accessories (like a charging cable) are a different story, though.
This is contingent on Tesla producing a super high quality, and equally high demand product, which I think it will.
I believe Tesla has been including the NEMA 14-50 cable with the Roadster purchase. This is a much better cable than the Clipper Creek LCS-25, since the LCS-25 is rated at only 25A, and the Tesla NEMA 14-50 cable is rated at 50A. You will be charging twice as fast. If Tesla includes the NEMA 14-50 cable with a Model S purchase, that would be awesome.
No, Tesla includes a 110V "Spare" connector with the car. The NEMA 14-50 comes with the extra-cost Universal Mobile Connector (UMC).
Also in North America you can only draw 40 amps from a 50 amp cable, due to regulations.
So then, when you purchase the Universal Mobile Connector for $1,500 they include the NEMA 14-50 adapter at no additional charge. So there is no "free ride" to 240V charging. My misunderstanding. So no matter which Plug-in car you purchase, you will have to pay $1,000+ extra for 240V charging at home.
Douglas3 - Drawing 40A from a 50A cable is much better than pulling 20A from the 25A cable (that sells for $999). Hopefully, Tesla will offer an updated Universal Mobile Connector (240V) with a permanent J1772 adapter on the car end (for the Model S), and the NEMA 14-50 adapter on the other for less than the current $1,500. If they are going to be selling 20,000 Model S cars per year, you'd think that volume would bring their cost (of the (240V) connector down.
Tesla is being mysterious about the Model S power connector; I guess they're saving it for some big announcement. All they would say is, "You will really like it".
One plug to rule them all?
Yes my precious.
Regarding the cost for the home install, I believe I read that is also something that is Tax Deductible. SO there may be the upfront costs but on the back end you may get it back... still saving more money in the end.
Yes, Douglas3, so much mystery over a cord and a connector. So, suppose the cord/connector winds up being better than anything on the market, but (in the end) I still have to purchase an expensive adapter to (dumb it down) so I can use 95% of the public charging stations out there today, what have I gained?
Msiano17, you're right. I think there is a 50% tax break on your cost (up to $2,000) for installing a home charging station. You get half of what you paid back when you file your taxes. Assuming this deduction is not allowed to expire.
Right, so cost wise, (rough estimate) it seems that you are still saving money though a full investment. By full investment, I mean the Model S and the extra accessories needed with it ... but I see your point about the connector issue being to good for what is out there and why the high cost at mass production.
What would be nice is if Tesla also instigated a change for connectors through the new charging stations, but I wont be holding my breath for that one....
The best way to handle this would be to install two "adapter docking stations" next to another. The docking stations should allow direct connections to the battery (at least 200A rated), charger, signalling etc.
Then supply different plug adapters to be mounted in these docking stations. There should be a sliding door in front of the adapters so you can use only one at a time.
A good placement for the docking stations would be behind the nose cone which could swing up to reveal them and down again (with provisions for cable entry) to lock in the charging plugs so nobody removes them.
Then you get those adapters you need. In the US you might order one J1772 and one CHAdeMO adapter. Or maybe a Tesla plug and a J1772. In Europe we might order one Mennekes and one CHAdeMO. If J1772-L3 takes off one could remove the J1772 adapter and mount the J1772-L3 adapter, thus having both J1772-L3 and CHAdeMO. Similar for Mennekes-L3. Firmware upgrades might be needed to use new adapters.
This would make the whole charging system very futureproof.
Another way to place the docking stations is one on each side of the car (rear or front panel) with provisions for opening only one charge door at a time. Then people could also choose which side to mount the different adapters or you could even have a J1772-L3 on both sides.