Same charging accessories as Roadster? When will we know?

Same charging accessories as Roadster? When will we know?

I think Tesla got it exactly right, for the US anyway, with the line of charging accessories for the Roadster: the "intelligent" High Power Wall Connector supporting 240 V 70 amps, the 240 V NEMA 10-50 Universal Mobile Connector supporting amperages up to 70, the additional plug adapters for it, and the long-cord 120 V Spare Connector.

However, it seems likely that the Model S will have a J1772 port instead of the Roadster port. Which means that as a Model S purchaser, I can't actually buy the versions currently on sale from Tesla.

I'm *hoping* Tesla will offer exactly the same line of Clipper Creek products only with J1772 plugs. If they do, I'll buy the lot of them, HPWC, UMC, and all the extra plug adapters. But so far nothing has been confirmed.

I'd particularly like to buy the High Power Wall Connector *before* I get my car, so that I can have it installed and ready to use when my car arrives. Electrical work may take a while to schedule; I don't want to be charging off a 110V 20 amp socket (which is the best thing I have in my garage). And although I could install a NEMA 10-50 right now, I don't want to do the electrical work twice, installing a NEMA 10-50 and then turning around and installing the HPWC a few months later.

Hence the question in the subject title.

(As a side note, my house is new, from 2003, and my main house breaker is rated for 200 amps. And my house currently uses so little electricity, I worked out the average load is under 10 amps, so even if the peak is higher, I'm not going to blow the breakers. So I figure when the HPWC for Model S is available, assuming that it will be, I can just buy the '90 amp breaker' model and tell my electrician to install it. Am I right?)

ncn | 13 giugno 2011

FYI, I know I'll probably never need 70 amp charging myself, but I can afford the $2K and I'd have the only high-power charger in a 200 mile radius (Ithaca, NY), so it would be a service for other electric car owners on road trips... and a way to meet them. :-)

Mark Petersen | 14 giugno 2011

year I'm also getting the Tesla for bragging rights :-)

David M. | 14 giugno 2011

Interesting discussion. Whether you are using the High Power connector (90A) or the NEMA 14-50, won't make too much difference. Using the NEMA 14-50 will fully charge the Roadster in 6 hours. The more expensive High Power Connector (90A) will give a full charge in 4 hours. If you are mainly charging overnight, either is more than adequate. My car is almost always parked in the garage from 8pm to 6am. That's 10 hours. Moreover, it will be rare that I will be charging from empty, so in most cases, I'll just be topping off (only 1 or 2 hours needed).

I'll never be in more of a hurry to charge at home. If I'm travelling, that's a different story. We really need 480V Fast Charging along our highways, to give us an 80% charge in less than 1 hour. That way, we can easily cover 500 miles per day if we choose. This combined with 240V overnight charging at many roadside hotels, and we will be in great shape. Hotels, are you listening??

David70 | 14 giugno 2011

I agree with you David M. (maybe because I'm also a David M.) We need 480V fast charging for road trips and 240V is fine for overnight stops. At home, I'll probably be satisfied with 110V, 15A. I'll probably never travel more than 70 miles a day near there, and will probably average a lot less.

Steve | 17 giugno 2011

The information from Elon in comments after the first annual stockholders' meeting is that the connector on the Model S will not be J1772 because it cannot handle high enough power. It will be another proprietary connector, not the same as the Roadster, either.

jkirkebo | 18 giugno 2011

As long as they provide Mennekes 3-phase for Europe, that's fine. 44kW AC is more than enough. In addition we want CHAdeMO...

But why do they need a connector in the US that can handle more than 240V 70A AC ? Where do you find a plug with more power than that, and how many have more than 200A house service to support one ?

David70 | 18 giugno 2011

No one in the U.S. should need more than 240V at 70A for at home charging. The 480V, 100+A would only be for road trips. I'm sure this is the intent for rapid charge stations.

Ramon123 | 20 giugno 2011

We are now seeing something that we really shouldn't be, had the Feds for once done what they're supposed to do, which is to see
that national standards are adopted for charging technology.
It should have been obvious for more than a year now exactly what the folks on this forum have been saying : you need high power recharging (Level 3) mainly when you are travelling or if you have no place to recharge your car at home (live in an apartment, a townhouse, are a renter, etc.). It seems obvious that we should not be rushing out to install 120V chargers at public places. That technology is already obsolete, at least for not-at-home chargers.
For all the noise and money the Feds are spending, they are
dropping the ball when it comes to what they themselves are griping
about : infrastructure. It doesn't cost any money to establish standards, but it does require a little bit of intelligence, which is seemingly nowhere to be found.

David M. | 20 giugno 2011

Agree completely with Ramon123. No need for 120V chargers in public areas (useless). But Steve's info is a shocker. Elon said that the Model S will not have J1772 ? Why do we need public charging in excess of 240V 100A (J1772) right now? This is more than adequate to get the job done fast.

Without the J1772 connector on the Model S, Model S buyers will have to purchase an adapter just like the Roadster owners do today($750), in order to be able to use all of the public charging stations across the USA.

I sure hope Steve's info is wrong.

David70 | 20 giugno 2011

With 240V 100A (and the J1772 standard doesn't even allow that yet) you only get about 80-96 miles on one hour of charging, depending on driving speed. On a road trip I don't think very many people want to spend an hour of charging for every 80 miles of travel. Some people want to travel more than 300 miles a day, especially if traveling much over a thousand miles. I do that on occasion and don't want to spend 3 or 4 nights in a motel/hotel. At this stage you can't even be guaranteed of a J1772 charger in many hotels (and certainly not at a 250 - 300 mile spacing).

Apparently the information about the J1772 connector on the Model S keeps changing. I don't know what the final design will be.

David M. | 20 giugno 2011

If you look here:

you will see that Clipper Creek already has commercial chargers from 30A to 100A breaker which all support J1772 connector.

I would like to drive my Model S about 2,400mi across country. I did the same trip 3 years ago in 4 days in gas powered car. 600mi per day is 12 hours behind the wheel with stops for refueling and food. That's a lot of driving/sitting.

With a Model S, I would like to make the trip in 6 days at 400mi per day. I could do 200mi (3.5hr), then take a 3 hr break (to recharge & relax), then do another 200mi (3.5hr), and recharge overnight. Nobody should really be in a car (traveling) more than 10 hrs a day anyway.

jkirkebo | 21 giugno 2011

In the US you can only use 80% of breaker rating continously, thus the product requiring a 100A breaker will supply 80A to the car. This is the max the J1772 spec allows.

David70 | 21 giugno 2011


I trade off driving with my wife, and we can do Cheney to Sacramento or Cheney to Reno in a trip without overnight stops. Those trips are both over 750 miles, so would require at least two stops of about 3.7 hours each (assuming 70A charging), which adds at least 5 hours to the trips. We normally take breaks to walk the dogs and each every 3 or 4 hours. The break times would be enough to recharge using a rapid charge station.

That's what I hope to see.

P.S. We couldn't take the shortest routes with an electric, so the trip would be much longer.

ncn | 29 giugno 2011

"The information from Elon in comments after the first annual stockholders' meeting is that the connector on the Model S will not be J1772 because it cannot handle high enough power. It will be another proprietary connector, not the same as the Roadster, either."

Oh good grief. I can tolerate this, but if they do this, the J1772 adapter needs to come free with the car, otherwise people will be very irritated.

They need to nail these details down well in advance of delivery.