400A gateway anytime soon?

400A gateway anytime soon?

I am trying to install a whole home power wall back up. I have 2, 200 Amp electrical panels that run my house. I am being told that I can not run multiple gateways due to local code so I am forced to back up only one of my electric panels (Portland OR, USA)

Does anyone have any info on a 400A gateway becoming available any time soon?

Update -- 11/13/2019. Tesla Energy just contacted me to advise that they can now run the gateways in parallel so I can have 1 gateway for each 200Amp sub-panel. Just waiting on new engineering drawings and permits! Glad I waited. Whole home back up is now a thing with a 400Amp main!

Claudedohrn | 21 ottobre 2018

Also interested. Similar situation, and I won’t do trenching if only 200A gateway.

Patrick | 24 ottobre 2018

I’m suspicious of any “local code” that would prevent using two gateways, not sure why that would be the case. Suggest verifying this info again. Please share findings.

BearHeart | 11 novembre 2018

I have the same situation (2 x 200A panels) was told that it was a technical limitation that prevents using multiple gateways.

Nwshoeguy | 29 dicembre 2018

It appears that it is not a local code but a Tesla Powerwall system limitation. Hope they make a change to the gateway soon. Does anyone have any updated information on a 400A gateway?

tzvi250 | 8 gennaio 2019

I have the same problem i have spoken to many people at Tesla and no one has any definitive answer. So I guess as of now we have to wait.

ir | 9 gennaio 2019

Count me in as interested. 2 panels with 2 gateways would mean 2 different sets of batteries that can’t balance load across the 2 branches. Hardly a cost effective nor desirable setup.

tzvi250 | 13 gennaio 2019

maybe if we can get enough people to call/email in about a 400 amp gateway Tesla will get moving on one.

fdelzingaro | 16 gennaio 2019

I just talked to the lead powerwall sales rep in NV. He said "no forseable future" on the 400 amp gateway.

steve0 | 18 gennaio 2019

DISCLAIMER: I am not an electrician

So, for those that have 2x 200 AMP panels, does your house really have that many electrical runs and load requirement to justify both (and a 400A feed to the utility)? Also, have you had Telsa come out and do a site survey?

The reason I ask is because I currently have a 200A Main with a 100A sub-panel that is adequate sizing for my home (nearly 5k sqft + EV charger). I am having Tesla install a 20.79 kW PV array (19 kW AC nameplate) with full battery backup (3x powerwalls) and the utility stipulates that any PV system over 15 kW AC needs a 400A main, so I'm having the main upgraded as well. But in reviewing the electrical diagram, Tesla is only connecting one leg (200A) of the upgraded main when doing the install, so the other 200A leg in the main will be empty.

Just curious if you had a side visit and if the tech would modify your setup to run off a single 200A leg, so you wouldn't need a second gateway. Again, I am not an electrician so this may all be a laughable matter to someone in the know... Just a thought.

Patrick | 20 gennaio 2019

I'm getting back into planning mode for a new solar PV generator with multiple PW2s for a new home. The home is not that large, but like our current home it will likely have to support heavier than average electrical loads due to multiple HVAC units, multiple EV charger connections, hot tub, and a few other high power items.

At first I thought a 200A utility service would suffice, but now I'm thinking we'll need at least 300A to make sure we're not coming back later for any major rework of the main electrical panels. After reviewing this thread and the PW2 installation guide, it looks like we'll have to deal with the 200A gateway limitation as well.

My questions related to available best practices and/or workarounds given the 200A limitation:

- Has anyone else already installed PW2s and a backup gateway with something greater than 200A utility service?

- If so, how did you work around the 200A gateway limitation?

- I'm assuming one way to handle this is to segment a 300-400A utility service entrance into two main breaker panels of 200A each in the home, and to allocate the loads that need battery backup into only one of those panels, kind of like the "essential loads" configuration example shown here:

Using that approach seems like it might complicate the solar PV connections needed to power the whole home, and we wouldn't really get the "whole-house" backup we desire in this situation, right?

- Any other creative ideas out there?

@steve0 - I have quite a bit of residential electrical experience - rest assured than many larger homes really do need 300-400A electrical service.

Patrick | 26 gennaio 2019

Quick update on the 400A gateway - just spoke with a Tesla installer handling a new PV/PW2 project at a nearby home. He says the 400A gateway is a high demand item that will be available later on this year.

We’ll see what happens. FWIW he was very credible.

george | 28 gennaio 2019

I have 400A service coming into the mail panel of my home. That panel is now forwarded to the input breaker ahead of the gateway. The gateway is limited to 200A, so it forwards to 200A to a new circuit breaker panel which now contains all breakers moved over to back them up and a 200A breaker that feeds the secondary 200A panel upstairs. Net-Net we can only deliver 200A to our home, but that’s plent for our needs and works great.

zubinanary | 31 gennaio 2019
Patrick | 31 gennaio 2019

@zubin - thanks for sharing the links. This is the first I've seen of a V2 backup gateway, interesting. The link is an Australian site, correct? Are they installing this version of the gateway there?

The one I saw being installed just last week in Florida was V1, wondering if V2 is available here in the US?

The specs don't seem to mention a max current rating, i.e. 200 vs. 400A...

zubinanary | 31 gennaio 2019

I questioned Tesla Energy a few weeks ago about paying for an upgrade from my v1 to the new v2 gateway, and she said they haven't started to push them out to their US customer yet. I asked her about the difference, and the only thing she could say is that it was more about esthetics. Internal antennas and it is to look like a Powerwall itself vs. just a sub panel box.

I can't even find anything on the Tesla US site. I guess it's coming soon, but no idea if it's the new 400 amp or not.

TomC1776 | 23 luglio 2019

Any rumors on when and if the 400 amp gateway will be available? Seems like there is plenty of demand.

Patrick | 26 luglio 2019

We just confirmed the need for 400A service to power our new home project and the meter base will be installed soon. Running out of time to wait for a 400A gateway solution and no response yet to our Tesla PW2 order placed 5-6 months ago.

Looks like Tesla May lose this project to a competitive solution, but to keep our options open as long as possible and deal with a separate local utility issue related to “dual metering” vs normal “net” metering, we’ve developed a custom 240 VAC service wiring plan and “zero export” solar generator design. Part of this plan includes using two 200A main breaker panels, which enables max solution flex but requires preparing for the disappointing reality that we may have to segment our home loads across the two breaker panels and use the Powerwall array to create a micro grid that only runs loads connected to a single panel.

Still working on all this and happy to share our learnings if anyone else is in the same boat.

ir | 26 luglio 2019

“Looks like Tesla May lose this project to a competitive solution”

What competitive solution are you considering for residential battery storage that sports a single 400A gateway? I’ll be approaching the same conundrum soon for my project.

So far, the best we could come up with is to put the EV charging on a separate 200A circuit outside of solar & battery coverage. If there are single 400A gateway solutions out there, I too would like to consider them.

DermMD | 26 luglio 2019

Not an electrician but I did wire a gas generator backup to my house with two 200A panels. For that set up I installed two separate gateways but one only needs a single meter. The split the income utility was after the meter. To solve this problem I'd split the circuits after the Gateway not the meter. Hence a single Tesla or other gateway. Therefore one bundle from the meter to the gateway. Two bundles from the gateway to the two panels in the house. The incoming would still be 200A per bundle. Not that I can think of any home setup that requires 400A. I had 2 panels in that house because of an addition which required additional circuits with the original panel being full.

Patrick | 26 luglio 2019

Ir - to clarify - we have not been able to find anyone offering a single 400A whole-house backup gateway solution that performs like the Tesla gateway. Have looked at the integrated DC-coupled PIKA islanding inverters and Harbor battery arrays (also uses Panasonic battery modules) but their pricing is high and their batteries are not designed for full daily charging/discharging cycles like the PW2s.

Still shopping but running out of time. To grab the 30% federal ITC while available in 2019 the system we select must be online by 12/31. If Tesla can’t deliver and activate PW2s in that timeframe we may have no choice but to select a competitor.

Patrick | 26 luglio 2019

DermMD - what we have in mind so far (if Tesla will engage soon) is something more similar to what you’ve described. In our case we are planning for a 400A meter base outside, a 400A service cable from meter base to the electrical room inside, which is then split into two 200A sub-feeds.

One 200A feed hits the Tesla gateway, PW2 array and first main breaker panel, creating the primary home micro-grid running as many loads as possible and getting as close to a whole house self-powered solution as possible. The second 200A feed hits the second main breaker panel, which either a) loses power when the grid fails, or b) switches its loads over to the primary microgrid (connected behind the Tesla gateway) via an ATS during grid failures.

Complicating matters further is this fact - in order for all this to work in a dual-metering utility environment the inverter(s) have to support zero-export configurations.

It’s like Excedrin headache number 435 trying to figure out the best solution given the complications....

DermMD | 30 luglio 2019

@Patrick the setup I discussed above for my old house was for a Generac generator. You may get some ideas by studying the different ATS and gateway wiring diagrams they have on their website. In my case the generator was wired to only one ATS but the wiring was such that the two ATS were master and slave so that when utility power went out the whole house was still powered by the generator through the two panels.

TomC1776 | 4 agosto 2019

I feel myself sliding into a Rube Goldberg world. I hope Tesla will save us but I, like many of you, am running out of time. This fix would open up a significant market for Tesla. Please please please!

polly.creker | 9 agosto 2019

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Patrick | 16 agosto 2019

Thanks DermMD. I’m having trouble finding wiring diagrams on the Generac site. Do you by chance still have a link or diagram of your setup to share here or privately?

DermMD | 16 agosto 2019

Look at the manuals page and downloads. I just went through a few just now and I can't remember the model of the transfer switches I had but I couldn't find it. if you look through the different switch wiring diagrams you will find what I was referring to. I'd probably just call Generac technical support and ask them to point you in the right direction.

Patrick | 17 agosto 2019

Thank you!

Patrick | 7 settembre 2019

Received some good news on this topic last week. A reputable local dealer told us that Tesla recently released new PW/gateway software which now allows TWO active energy gateways (200A each) per installation instead of only a single gateway. If true the problem is solved for many like us!

Two 200A main breaker panels + two 200A gateways = 400A total home load capacity = a fully self-powered home, no more capacity concerns, a full whole-house backup solution, and no more disturbance in The Force!

We’ll see what happens. If true, our system with this configuration and 3 PW2s may come online in December. Fingers crossed....

gregbrew | 7 settembre 2019

So, still no solution if you have a single 400A main panel...rare now, but they'll become more common in new residential developments, when solar and EVs are considered a part of the mix. 25kW home DCFC is impractical currently, even with a 200A main panel.

Patrick | 7 settembre 2019

Not aware of a solution for a single 400A panel already in place. In our case we have new construction and were able to spec two separate 200A panels.

Patrick | 7 settembre 2019

For clarity in case it helps others planning for new projects - we specified one large 400A meter base which then feeds two 200A panels.

jgreenhall | 24 ottobre 2019

I'm running into the same issue with the 200 A gateway. We have a 600 Amp main panel and would prefer to have 400 Amps of the main panel connected to the batteries for backup, and I'd prefer not to have to split into two gateways as we'd have to split the solar backing up to each set of batteries, etc. and need a special meter, etc. Has anyone checked out the Neovolta batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate)? I just spoke with Tesla today, and they still do not have the 400 amp gateway but hope to have one in the near future though doubtful before the end of the year. I'm just wondering if there is anything that can get around this limitation. Thanks!

bp | 25 ottobre 2019

Our installer is planning to attach a Gateway to each of our two 150A breaker panels, and have the solar panels and 4 PowerWalls connected to both Gateways, so the breaker panels will be sharing the solar and PowerWall power.

Since we want to maximize backup power during extended outages (hurricanes), the installer prefers this option than swapping circuits between the breaker panels to configure one with the most essential circuits.

nblaine | 6 novembre 2019

I have a 32kW solar install with Enphase IQ7X microinverters. I am looking to use powerwall 2 to harvest more of the solar I produce, and hopefully one day eliminate my service charges by going off-grid (very likely require a generator as well). I have three electric vehicles that drive my energy usage. Everything else in my house is sporadic and consumes very little. In Utah we sell power to the grid for 9.2 cents per kWh if meter runs in reverse. When meter runs forward we buy power at 14.45 cents per kWh. I want to install 7 powerwalls. I do my own wiring, so branching my 400A service is not a big problem, but would result in poor energy utilization as opposed to combining them to share the solar and battery storage. "bp" said his 4 powerwalls and solar would connect to "both gateways". Could somebody explain how this works to combine circuitry after it has been branched? It seems that the gateways would not properly load balance with this setup.

bp | 7 novembre 2019

The original plan was to power only one 150A breaker panel by our solar/PowerWalls, and for the electricians to shift circuits between our two 150A panels to put the "essential" systems on solar/PowerWalls and the "non-essential" on the other panel.

They also looked at splitting our solar panels/PowerWalls into 2 separate systems - with each 150A breaker panel getting 1/2 of the power, each with its own gateway. But we'd still have to shift some circuits between panels, because the HVAC systems have the blower/heater units on one panel and the outside compressors on the other panel.

After reviewing our options, the installer (who is primarily an electrical services contractor) claims they can connect each of the 150A breaker panels to a Backup Gateway (the version that doesn't look like a small PowerWall) - and have everything powered off the solar/PowerWalls. From a wiring and power usage standpoint, this is the simplest solution, only requiring to replace the outside boxes with the breaker panel cutoff switches with the Backup Gateways - and we wouldn't have to separate essential vs. non-essential circuits.

Haven't found any documentation online covering this configuration, so until we get the utility approval and I see this in operation, there's a possibility this configuration won't work, and we'll have to fall back to isolating the essential circuits to one panel.

Nwshoeguy | 12 novembre 2019

It is happening. I just got a call from my Tesla Energy Manager who told me they have updated the systems to run 2 gateways in parallel. This means I can run 2 Powerwalls to each 200Amp sub-panel and have whole home back up. Just waiting for final redesign and permits.

bp | 13 novembre 2019

That's what our electricians are planning to do. We've received HOA approval and could get our PowerWalls installed next week - and will be able to confirm the dual gateway configuration powering two 150A breaker panels.

This is a much better configuration than providing half of the solar/PW power to the two panels.

bp | 16 novembre 2019

Latest update - our installer appears to be having difficulty dealing with Tesla on our Backup Gateway configuration. The installer has been planning to install have 2 Backup Gateways sharing the solar panels/PowerWalls - each gateway connected to one of our two 150A breaker panels.

If Tesla can't confirm that configuration works, we'll likely fall back to a single gateway and shifting circuits between breaker panels to put "essential" systems (most of the house) on a single breaker panel - not as flexible as having the entire house on the solar/PowerWalls…

Otherwise, everything is in in stock and could have the installation this week...

bp | 18 novembre 2019

Heard from our installer this morning. After reviewing our smart meter logs for the past 12 months, after removing EV charging (which was using 21 KW for our two wall connectors running at 48A), the peak combined load for our two 150A panels was less than 170A.

So they're planning to connect both 150A breaker panels to a single gateway - though I've asked them if we should still install a 2nd gateway and then hook it up once Tesla has dual gateways supported.

Patrick | 20 novembre 2019

Well done bp - your final configuration makes perfect sense and should serve you well. As long as you max loads can be supported by a single gateway, IMHO you are much better served by using this approach with a multi-Powerwall array.

I suspect we’ll end up doing something very similar when all is said and done. With a new construction project we don’t have the benefit of having consumption history data, but I’m 99% certain our combined max concurrent loads across two 200A panels will be well short of 200A.

Will report back.

bp | 21 novembre 2019

Our house was built 5 years ago. When it was built, we weren't thinking about installing solar panels or battery storage.

If we were building our house today and planning to install solar/powerwalls, I would have done a few things differently.

First, I would have reviewed what would be on each circuit, and try to put all of the "essential" circuits into one 200A breaker panel. in planning for our solar/powerwall installation, this was considered as an option - which would have required work to shift many circuits between the two breaker panels (the original electricians wired our HVAC systems to the outside equipment was on one panel and the inside equipment on the other panel).

Second, I would have review more carefully items that could generate the largest load and look for options for reducing that power usage.

One of the largest power users is a pool pump for a decorative waterfall - rather than a continuous 2.5 KW pump, would have gone with a more efficient variable speed pump running at the lowest effective speed. We didn't realize how much power that pump was taking, and was running it 48 hours per week (average of 17 KWh/day!), which we now run much less.

Another area is lighting. We have floodlights for much of the room lighting - we made a pass through the house and replaced the most frequently used lights with LEDs. This could save us almost 1KWh/day just in our kitchen.

We also reviewed all of the other devices and found some cases where we didn't need to leave things running, or could put them on a timer. We have a towel warmer in the bathroom that was using 4 KWh/day - we can save most of that power by putting it on a WeMo timer and running the warmer only a few hours a day. We didn't pay attention to the power usage when we ordered the towel warmer - now, I'm not sure we would include it in a new home or at least would have a WiFi timer included with the original installation.

We're now scheduled for installation to begin next Monday...

Though even if we are able to get onto a single Backup Gateway, it would have been more elegant to have a gateway for each of our 150A panels and something I'll ask the electricians to consider during their installation, just in case we find out in the future we're actually pulling more than 200A at times...

Patrick | 23 novembre 2019

Right on bp.

We did almost everything you mentioned above during our new construction project, sans the towel warmers. Also converted to variable speed pool pump and hybrid heat pump hot water heater in our first solar powered home.

HUGE energy savings - enough to fuel our Model 3 and still keep the electric bill at or near zero.

The mission continues....

gregbrew | 25 novembre 2019

Yup. Did a massive remodel in coastal So CA. New e-panel enabled solar and EV chargers. Unfortunately, I was limited to a 200A feed by our utility (SCE) unless I wanted to spend many tens of thousands of dollars more for a new feed.

My goal was to keep total household energy costs below $100 a month. This includes electricity, natural gas and gasoline. With super efficient everything, EVs, PV and Powerwalls, we got there two years ago.

Now, with the cost of all forms of energy sure to increase, keeping it there will be a challenge.

razmachawall | 25 novembre 2019

We hope we do not get this issue when we buy a Tesla car, I sincerely hope your issue is resolved now at least. try and get in touch with your power line owner and maybe find a solution. Thanks !!

I hope it helped us very well.

anderep | 7 maggio 2020

I have 320 amp service, and two 400 amp panels. It would be extremely nice to have a single gateway installed that i could connect two load panels and a single generation panel. If i have to install two 200 amp gateways then i would need more powerwalls. i've not seen a load greater the 25KW total on my service, so i was thinking 5-6 powerwalls, if i had to install two gateways, then i would have to split up my generation panels and would need 8 powerwalls.

we really need a 400 amp gateway.

bp | 7 maggio 2020

Our house had two 150A breaker panels.

We ended up with both panels connected to a single Gateway with 4 PowerWalls.

We haven't had any problems operating on-grid - based on smart meter data, our peak usage over the past 2 years never got close to 200A.

Operating off-grid, we could have problems though if all of our large power devices are running at the same time. Based on testing, as long as we aren't using the double oven and now that we have hard start upgrades installed on our HVAC systems, we should be able to run the house on 4 PowerWalls.

This doesn't include the separate 150A breaker panel for our two Tesla Wall Connectors - which are wired for grid power only - which could draw too much power. Instead, we added a 14-50 outlet to the panels connected to the Gateway for use only during an extended power outage to add a few miles onto one of our cars.

mail.dendy13 | 7 maggio 2020

Yup. Did a massive remodel in coastal So CA. New e-panel enabled solar and EV chargers. Unfortunately, I was limited to a 200A feed by our utility (SCE) unless I wanted to spend many tens of thousands of dollars more for a new feed.

My goal was to keep total household energy costs below $100 a month. This includes electricity, natural gas and gasoline. With super efficient everything, EVs, PV and Powerwalls, we got there two years ago.

Now, with the cost of all forms of energy sure to increase, keeping it there will be a challenge.

johnyaw652 | 21 maggio 2020

Tesla has helped the world by promoting Green House and cancelled emission of CO2.
Thank you tesla.

heimdm | 15 giugno 2020

With the dual Gateway setup, do the Powerwall's act as a single unit, or 2 separate queues of energy?