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Tesla signed agreement for GF3 in Shanghai. Why isn't this confirmation a big deal?

Tesla signed agreement for GF3 in Shanghai. Why isn't this confirmation a big deal?

I posted that Tesla Shanghai was incorporated about two months ago and it was poised to invade 'Gina. Perhaps the topic offended an orange schmuck and was taken down. Now there's official news of Musk signing the commitment in Shanghai today.

Is the media colluding with shorts to muffle all things positive for Tesla? You decide.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/10/tesla-shanghai-plant/?ncid=edlinkusa...

Magic 8 Ball | 10 luglio 2018

MAGA

andy.connor.e | 10 luglio 2018

Well given Teslas media history, i dont think its in any media companies interest to promote Tesla in a positive way. Great to hear though, as we knew it was a matter of time, this will be great for the world.

Silver2K | 10 luglio 2018

They're busy posting FUD on here, that's why!

nwfan | 10 luglio 2018

Beginning of foreign production. Batteries and vehicles built in China. So long American production.

Another company off shores jobs? Wait an see what 2022 production numbers disclose. So long Fremont.

carlk | 10 luglio 2018

It's for the Chinese market only. Unless of course if UAW got its way in destroying the Fremont plant.

Mathew98 | 10 luglio 2018

Right now China only accounts for less than 15% of Tesla production. When this GF3 is running at full speed, China will take most of its production and avoid 25% import tariff. The remainder of the production capacity would probably go to the rest of Asia and perhaps EU.

Just imagine 50% capacity for North America and the other half for Asia/EU markets.

Rocky_H | 10 luglio 2018

@nwfan, Don't be purposefully dense--it's not offshoring and closing up Fremont. It makes sense to produce the cars on the continent where they will be sold. That's why Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. built car production plants here in the U.S. to build the cars for the U.S. market. They still build cars in Japan too.

KP in NPT | 10 luglio 2018

No different than any other auto manufacturer, nwfan. Don’t be so dour.

SamO | 10 luglio 2018

You don't want to have to move the constituent molecules that make up the car/battery/parts further than necessary. This is "first principles thinking" at its best. Local production is key.

nwfan | 10 luglio 2018

Not dour, clairvoyant.
Hope I'm wrong and Tesla doesn't shift any
USA manufacturing to China or Germany.
Time will tell if I'm dour or clairvoyant.

Yup @SamO, Panasonic builds battery plant in China.
Close to Tesla, BJEV, BYD and NIO.
Stick the finish product in a 53 ft container and ship across
the Oceans.

johnse | 11 luglio 2018

@nwfan
The GF China will be a combined Battery and car factory. Only shipping raw materials, parts from suppliers, and final cars. Probably source lithium and other metals from China.

This has nothing to do with Fremont. The Chinese market is growing rapidly. Probably make both Model 3 and Y there with all production going to Asia and Australia regions.

carlk | 11 luglio 2018

"Hope I'm wrong and Tesla doesn't shift any
USA manufacturing to China or Germany."

There is no advantage of doing that other than local tax considerations.

nwfan | 11 luglio 2018

@johnse, time will tell. Tesla has proven they can start up a production line in min time and facilities.
Tent in Fremont for Model 3 production up and running in months. Air freighted machinery from Germany.

What's to prevent them from shifting production to China in 4 years?

I've witness far too much off shoring of manufacturing jobs starting back in the 80's
all in the name of Globalization and profit. And the social impact is with us today.

Guess I am getting a little dour. Hope your predictions on only Asia and Australia
are true.

Ross1 | 11 luglio 2018

Watch this space:
$35000 Model 3 to be made in China, 500,000 per year.

Should_I | 11 luglio 2018

China needs millions of EVs to clear city smog, and they want Tesla there to steal all the intellectual property from and help them do it. I think they will have their hands full with the local market. Fremont is safe and will keep building the Model S/X sold over there.

nadurse | 11 luglio 2018

It is being reported TIME just posted a decent article today, and to me this is very good news. Another step towards becoming a powerhouse OEM, having local production in a huge market like China is key to growing.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 11 luglio 2018

nwfan: Oh, you are clairvoyant as to what Tesla's detractors will surely claim. They are certain to declare Tesla is abandoning Fremont and U.S. workers no matter the evidence. They'll probably claim that all Tesla products sold in the U.S. were built in China (but won't say anything about Buick). Thank God for 'fact checking'.

By the way, I'm told that Australia refuses to accept cars from China in their marketplace. So their Tesla cars will still require shipment via a slow boat from California. Same thing in Japan. There will be more than enough business from China alone to support the Gigafactory there, though there may be shipments to other Southeast Asian nations.

David N | 11 luglio 2018

nwfan, what was the purpose of your comment?
Elon has said all along that the goal is to have manufacturing on the continent close to sales, this eliminates costly over ocean transportation.
That’s why I question the purpose of your comment, Elon is doing what he has said he would all along. No surprises here. Perhaps your new here? Perhaps a bit more study of Elon and Tesla would be in order before making such comments.

carlk | 11 luglio 2018

David N
"nwfan, what was the purpose of your comment?"

Don't worry. He's just one of those FUDsters out there. He actually beat even places like SA or LAT on this one.

Magic 8 Ball | 11 luglio 2018

I personally believe that the timing of this announcement, in the light of "trade wars" (coming to your local theater and walmarts soon), is somewhat strategic. I like it that some think it will suck American jobs away. You gotta fake with fake sometimes.

Magic 8 Ball | 11 luglio 2018

Meant to say: You gotta fight fake with fake sometimes.

mos6507 | 11 luglio 2018

Because production hell continues apace and Tesla doesn't have the money to build out the plant. So it's pie in the sky.

It COULD, however, be used as an excuse to rush back to the capital markets even though Musk said they wouldn't.

WantMY | 11 luglio 2018

Tesla could not ramp up production at home, with rates well behind target. So folks already know how to interpret 500,000 claims - it would be ok if it hits 50,000 in a next decade, or any at all, lol

jjs | 11 luglio 2018

Someone help me out here. The reason Tesla loses money is because of the enormous R&D investment they are making. I believe these costs are associated with both the build out of the giga-factory in Sparks NV, as well as expansion of the Fremont, CA facility. The question is will that continue? And will they be profitable anyway? If so they have reached the point where they can be both profitable (al beit only slightly) and still continue to make huge investments. I don't know the answer to these questions. What I do know is that san R&D costs they would be very profitable. Will they need to go back to the capital markets to continue to fuel their expansion? I don't know. What I do know is that they are getting closer and closer to being able to fuel their expansion AND be profitable. When they reach that milestone the shorts will be decimated, and the rest of the auto industry will be running scared. This is a fun real life drama playing out before us.

Go Tesla. Go TSLA.

carlk | 11 luglio 2018

During the last few years Tesla developed and produced several brand new EV models that are best in the industry. Developed state of art technology including self driving that is ahead of other automakers. Built the gigafactory that has the highest battery production rate in the world with the lowest cost. Built the supercharger network that covers everywhere in the world. Any other company will need to spend many time that much to achieve the same thing even if they could. Apple alone probably have spend many billions if not tens of billions on the Titan project and got nowhere. All I can say about Tesla is money well spent.

Ross1 | 11 luglio 2018

Perfect the machine that builds the machine at home, then ship them abroad.
Even with Tents included. No need to start from scratch all over each GF.

mos6507 | 11 luglio 2018

"Perfect the machine that builds the machine"

The "machine that builds the machine" meme died (or at least got significantly delayed) due to #FlufferBot and other automation issues.

Uncle Paul | 11 luglio 2018

Perhaps the even bigger issue is how Elon got China to totally revamp their internal business practices.

Prior to this Gigafactory, all foreign companies needed to have a National Chinese partner, controlling at least 50%.
This way China competitors could get all the technology and industrial secrets from every foreign company producing within their shores. Tremendous intellectual espionage was going on, with the total support of the Communist Chinese government.

Elon stood up to them and said he wanted to retain total ownership. They carved out an exemption for him, but are now considering totally changing the way they work with foreign companies.

This is a world shaking change, and all due to Tesla.

dborn @nsw.au | 11 luglio 2018

Just to give you guys some perspective, the cheapest model S, with no options selected, in the state of New South Wales, Australia, is AUD131000.00. The price varies somewhat from state to state due to local taxes. Elon states that the car costs the same here as it does in the USA, and the price difference is due to local taxes, as well as marine insurance and shipping costs. The taxes on my signature model S bought in December 2014 amounted to just over AUD26000.00!! (Combo of state and federal). There are no significant EV incentives here, just a very tiny federal tax reduction compared to the price of an ICE car of similar invoice value. Maybe 3 or 4 grand if that difference.
Anything that reduces the price of the car here would be welcome!

dborn @nsw.au | 11 luglio 2018

The price of a p100d with every option ticked including high end paint wheels, carbon fiber works out to a staggering $274000.00 drive away price!!!

dborn @nsw.au | 11 luglio 2018

Oh, I forgot to add the sunroof and arachnid wheels to that price! So maybe around AUD282000.00!!!

compchat | 12 luglio 2018

HORRIBLE decision. Why not hire AMERICAN workers to build them in America and ship them to China? Like the Japanese did and do. China WILL steal trade secrets and not bat an eye. They will ship Teslas to foreign markets and compete with American production. Eventually they will build a cheaper model that will be shipped to US (if Trump is not re-elected). WAKE up and smell the stink Elon. You made a horrible decision which appears to be based soley on potential profits for Tesla (short term). I warned about this several years ago on this very forum and the world situation now is even worse then it was then.

I hope PRESIDENT Trump stops Tesla from moving to China. I hope that PRESIDENT Trump is able to stop the unfair tarrifs placed on American Cars imported to China from the United States. One of the main reasons I purchased three Teslas is because they were made in America. If that's no longer the case I will try to look at alternatives that are mostly built in America (parts and labor).

shank15217 | 12 luglio 2018

@compchat, you missed an \s at the end of your rant

SamO | 12 luglio 2018

Oh he’s both delusional and seriously retarded.

jjs | 12 luglio 2018

I think compchat is completely right./s

Mathew98 | 12 luglio 2018

Is he the president of the orange denial club? Can't he learn to the read the previous explanations about elimination of tariff and reduced shipping time and costs?

Fake new/s.

carlk | 12 luglio 2018

He wants to buy car from a company that does not manufacture cars in China. I wonder what company that would be.

Rocky_H | 12 luglio 2018

@carlk, Quote: “During the last few years Tesla developed and produced several brand new EV models”

Oh @carlk—ever the Tesla cheerleader. You refer to two as “several”? There has been development work on others, but the only new models also produced were X and 3.

@compchat, Quote: “HORRIBLE decision. Why not hire AMERICAN workers to build them in America and ship them to China? Like the Japanese did and do.”

They DON’T, so your foundational thesis is just wrong. All of the big Japanese car companies have their factories here in the U.S. for the U.S. market for this very same reason.

@compchat, Quote: “I warned about this several years ago on this very forum”

Yeah, I remember that it is you who does this same “hair on fire” fear mongering every time the idea of a Chinese factory is brought up.

Ross1 | 12 luglio 2018

@dborn's comment above, $282,000 Australian is $209,000 US, to buy a fully loaded Model S. To even know about them is almost only an academic exercise.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 12 luglio 2018

Tesla will be expanding INTO China, not moving TO China. Please make an effort to comprehend prepositions. Tesla is unlikely to sell any vehicles built in China to U.S. buyers. Zero. GM sells cars built in China in the U.S.

Buick Envision is Worthy Chinese Import | USA Today, January 13, 2017
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/01/13/review-buicks-envis...

Mathew98 | 12 luglio 2018

$60K between the US and AU is a whole lot of tariff and transportation cost. It's almost real money to some people.

carlk | 12 luglio 2018

@Rocky_H S was the first "best car ever" Tesla made from ground up.

Ross1 | 13 luglio 2018

The cheapest Teslas for sale in Aus, secondhand, is $99950 (2015 models).
That equates to $74000 US.

This website is brilliant. No commercial seller would not be in it, and many private sellers too.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/?sortby=~Price&offset=0&setype=so...

BTW, we are right hand drive here.

msmith55 | 13 luglio 2018

China Will steal the technology of the "machine that makes the machine" by applying lots of engineers (10 to 100 times more engineers than Tesla has available) to duplicate the Tesla plant, then upgrade it to be better, and make competitive products. They have done this for every other manufacturer that moved a plant to China. Tesla will be not be different. I hope this is not the end of the US automobile industry, just like we lost the transistor radio, electronic watch, cell phones, TV, and other industries.

johnse | 13 luglio 2018

@msmith55
Every other car company making cars in China has had to use a joint venture that included tech/IP transfer.

Tesla isn’t doing that, and it was part of their requirements for making Teslas in China.

They may well have to guard against corporate espionage, but that’s nothing new.

carlk | 13 luglio 2018

It's a little surprising Panasonic is not on the China plan yet. Tesla may not need Panasonic's participation for cell production in China other than financing though.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-12/panasonic-says-it-s-o...

As for China steal technology I'm sure Tesla will put every effort to guard its core technologies. Other than that people could always reverse engineering cars you make like every auto company in the world is probably doing with Tesla's cars anyway.

compchat | 13 luglio 2018

Mark my words. China will out produce America two to one in producing Tesla vehicles and accesories. Absent our great President Trump, China will ship those cars to America undercutting our cost of production. Americans will gobble up those Chinese made Tesla cars. The American plant will fail. China will steal trade secrets and open up a government factory manufacturing their own brand of electric car. They will be exported to America at a much lower price and put Tesla USA out of business. Why does it have to be China ? How about England or France or Australia for a plant site.

Finally why is he opening a huge Tesla plant in a country that supports terroism (china) and persecutes it's own people. Women still don't have the same rights as men. China has ???nuclear weapons capable of hitting us. They are not our ally and are on an expansionist plan right now. And remember what country has been helping North Korea survive all these years allowing the dictator to develop nuclear missles capable of hitting us. WHY give China the Crown Jewl of cars ?

Worst decision by Elon Musk Ever.

Magic 8 Ball | 13 luglio 2018

@compchat: " Worst decision by Elon Musk Ever."

What is your background to be able to judge Musk's decisions?

How many billions do you have?

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