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Is SR enough if we had 3X Superchargers?

Is SR enough if we had 3X Superchargers?

Time and again I find myself sharing that the SR is sufficient for most people, and there are passionate voices on the other side that say they LR is the minimum they can accept in an EV.

What if we had 3X as many Superchargers, and the charging speed is 3X the current average. Would SR range be acceptable then?

(Assuming that Superchargers are strategically located - which they are BTW)

hokiegir1 | 25 novembre 2019

For my/hubby's travel style, no. The LR allows us to go about 2 hours before stopping at our desired speeds (80-85, in general), and with the climate on comfortable settings for the most part. This already sometimes involves skipping SC locations (for example, we can go Augusta to Florence without a stop in Columbia). If we were stopping more frequently, I don't think we'd enjoy the trip as much. 2 hours is really an easy break period -- any less, and we'd be getting annoyed at having to stop too often. While some people might be ok with that frequency (about an hour between stops for 10-15 minutes each), it wouldn't do well for us. The current LR is really our minimum.

That said, could we do it if we had to? Absolutely. It just isn't our preferred travel style.

Pg3ibew | 25 novembre 2019

We rarely travel to the point where the LR batteries would make a significant difference. Definitely not for the price Tesla charges for the long range batteries.
Example. The 3 years prior to owning our model 3, we made 2 round trips, 1 from NYC to WV and the other from NYC to Williamsport PA. These would have been the only times we would have needed to charge anywhere but home.

bjrosen | 25 novembre 2019

I want the 500 miles that they are promising for the Cybertruck, at 500 miles Supercharging would only be necessary on multiday trips, the best Supercharger is the one you don't have to stop at. Also at 500 miles the winter range is still 300 miles which is the minimum acceptable range, especially since 300 really means 275 because of the 90% rule.

I use my Model 3 primarily for road trips, 300-400 mile day trips almost every weekend in good weather, we don't do them in the winter and it doesn't seem like an option because of the diminished range. With the AWD we've found that between the range and the existing Supercharger distances our travels are pretty convenient. We stop once or twice at Superchargers on each trip which gives us a comfortable amount of range plus it's convenient for bathroom breaks. I wouldn't want to stop more often than that. Having more Supercharger locations would be helpful, but on the other hand as batteries get cheaper and ranges go up the need for Superchargers goes down so there is less and less incentive to build more Superchargers.

Effopec | 25 novembre 2019

You've got to consider out and back trips off of the interstate where there's no supercharger at the far end. That has happened for me several times where I need to charge up to get back to the supercharger where I am sitting. Since the nav doesn't do waypoints I have had to sit in the car and pull up ABRP to determine how long I had to charge there, but I never would have made it with anything but a LR.

richardls | 25 novembre 2019

It is more than just range (which will depend on ones personal driving patterns and how often they wish to have to stop at a SC on road trips) as many have opted for dual motor all-wheel drive for other reasons too - improved acceleration, handling, the ability to drive if a motor fails (which I understand is rare), resale value, etc.

TeslaTap.com | 25 novembre 2019

Many of us early Tesla owners had an S60, good for 210 miles of range, similar to an SR. Never had a concern. Superchargers back then were about 110 miles apart on average, and now there are far more and many in between, depending on your route. Easy to get around and with a tiny adjustment, set my arrival times at an SC in time for lunch or dinner. Saved 5-10 minutes over prior ICE car that required you to wait to get to the pump and wait while the car gases up. With SC, plugin and go do something else. In some ways, the new v3 is too fast - hard to eat a meal before it's charged up!

Agree this may not work for someone in Alaska or the 2% of the US where no SC is available (North Dakota?). Then more range would be required. Now more range can help you skip some of the in-between SCs, and have more range when you reach your destination. It is hard to access the right model without knowing more about the needs of the driver. A blanket statement that the SR or LR is required doesn't make a lot of sense.

vmulla | 25 novembre 2019

@TeslaTap.com,
About the S60 - exactly!!! S60 on a lease was the most affordable way for me to get into a Tesla, but that car changed my perspective on EVs - for the better.

@Effopec,
You've missed the premise of the question. 'What if we had 3X as many Superchargers, and the charging speed is 3X the current average. Would SR range be acceptable then?' It's almost a given that this is going to happen - AND we're going to have EA charging options (for whatever they're worth)

gmr6415 | 25 novembre 2019

The Swedes are working on the solution:

This electric road charges your car while you drive

A Swedish city will soon begin construction on the first prototype. If it’s successful, it could mean smaller batteries and longer range for EVs.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90347555/this-electric-road-charges-your-car...

raqball | 25 novembre 2019

gmr6415 | November 25, 2019
The Swedes are working on the solution:

This electric road charges your car while you drive

A Swedish city will soon begin construction on the first prototype. If it’s successful, it could mean smaller batteries and longer range for EVs.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90347555/this-electric-road-charges-your-car...
--------------
Wow that's pretty interesting..

billtphotoman | 25 novembre 2019

Over 2/3rds of my miles are road trips and even here in TX where we generally don't get range-sapping cold the LR RWD with aeros is right on the edge of acceptable for me for highway travel. I often covers areas with 180 - 240 mile gaps between SCs and the speed limit is generally 70-75 MPH. I have to factor in wind and air temperatures on most of my trips which I find kind of fun actually. Leaving a 50 mile cushion gives me a usable range of 180-200 miles I guess if I could hand pick where the 3x new SCs go perhaps an SR would work but it would be irritating needing to stop every 2 hours.

noleaf4me | 25 novembre 2019

I think 325 miles is a minimum........I won't buy another one with less range than that.

TeslaTap.com | 25 novembre 2019

@gmr6415 - I love the idea, and I'm sure it can be made to work technically. The issue is the infrastructure costs would be extreme. Then you need every car manufacturer to agree to add the equipment (and costs) to each vehicle. It seems impractical to me on many levels, other than technically.

TexasBob | 25 novembre 2019

My math goes like this: needed range = (rated range x 80%) / 2. If there is a supercharger everywhere I want to go within that circle I am good. (The 80% is for weather, driving style, and to prevent routine overcharging; the divide by 2 is for out-and-back trips). Right now, where I live, that is 300 miles+. So, yes, If I could get another half-dozen SCs in the right places, the SR+ would be great for me. But for the foreseeable future it is not.

SamO | 25 novembre 2019

S60 is plenty of range. Tested and independently confirmed.

vmulla | 25 novembre 2019

Looks like there's a market for ultra long range Teslas - oh wait, they're already making 370 mile range vehicles :))

I always thought range anxiety is going to be considered an outdated concept soon. I thought that enough Superchargers would fix that concern. From the comments shared thus far, it looks like we have a while to go before EV range anxiety is defeated.

My point of view is simple - building more Superchargers along with the acceptance of lower range cars would drive overall costs down, that is to everyone's benefit.

Tuning In | 25 novembre 2019

To point out the obvious, it depends on the individual. I want better tires, better wheels and to drive 75-80mph on the interstate, with climate control ... so the SR+ would mean stopping far more frequently than I would like. Can I make it work if I has to? Yes. But there is no point in making it work. Just get the bigger battery.

pjwheeler83 | 25 novembre 2019

Being an SR+ owner in a huge cold weather state (Michigan) with 10? Superchargers I can attest to the need for more but also agree that with minimal concessions (85mph cruising w heat on HI) there is nowhere I can't go. I don't need (read: can't afford) the bigger battery. I don't call it range anxiety, I call it "driving"

stebo1 | 26 novembre 2019

@ hokiegir1 - I have the SR and I think you are underestimating how far it can go at Texas highway speeds (85 mph) - with a full car, in the Texas heat, so AC blasting the whole time!

I can easily drive 2 hours with range left to spare. True range under those conditions is about 180 miles (leaving a 10% buffer to not get worried, so really about 200 miles). In what world does that equate to stopping once an hour?

I agree with original poster, there is a need for more superchargers. For example, in the Dallas areas there are 3 but they are not convenient for all destinations. If I am going from Roanoke to Ennis and back, I would either need to take a weird route through Fort Worth or supercharge 5 mins from home - neither makes sense. Luckily our car has the range to get there and back without any charging. As we look to purchase our second one, we have considered the long range but not because we have ever “needed” it. We just think one long range and one standard should solve all our driving or potential driving needs for the next 10 years.

kevin_rf | 26 novembre 2019

I do think it depends on the driver. I have a 90+ plus mile commute, throw in a life outside of work and I often arrive home with minimal SOC. This is even more true in the winter.

The advantage to me of the LR is I get to skip super charger stops going about my daily life. Every now and then I will have to stop for five minutes at one to make it home, but hey I drive a fair amount. Not that I don't have three SC's within 15 miles of my home.

billtphotoman | 26 novembre 2019

@stebo1 - Looking at https://teslike.com/range/ and based on my own experience I find it hard to fathom an SR is getting 200 miles of range at 85 MPH unless there is a tail wind involved. And if it is cold the range really drops.
My LR won't get that kind of range at 85 MPH if the air temperature is below 50 or there is a head wind.
Since you are also in TX you are familiar with the big donut hole in NW Texas which would require a LOT of SCs to cover to a density of 1 SC per 100 mile "circle".

hokiegir1 | 26 novembre 2019

@stebo1 - It's less the A/C that's going to impact, but more the heater/cold. In the summer, sure, things would likly be fine -- but I don't only travel in the summer. We do plenty in winter, too. In our experience with our LR, winter range is about 30% less than summer -- so if you are getting about 180 miles now, you can expect between 100-120 if you want to use your heater at all in the winter. At 80-85mph, that's barely over an hour of highway driving.

vmulla | 26 novembre 2019

In the future I hope folks will choose LR because it suits their preferred travel style, and not because it's the only viable car for their situation.

---
@hokiegir1,
Someday I would like to have a friendly race between two Model 3s, one SR and another LR both doing the same speed and following on-board nav guidance on charging.

hokiegir1 | 26 novembre 2019

@vmulla - It would be interesting. We typically have to wait a bit longer than onboard tells us, just because we know we have higher usage than it generally predicts. IE -- it usually says we have enough at 10-15% on arrival, we will typically go until it says 20-25%, knowing that means we'll *actually* arrive with 10-15%.

I also want to do a simultaneous trip with my family in their ICE -- everyone leaving at the same time, same route, ideally same speeds (but most of my family drives slower than hubby and I). I know others have done this, but I'd be curious how it plays out for us. Sadly, I doubt we'll have much opportunity to try this any time soon.

SalisburySam | 27 novembre 2019

After 7 years with a 2012 Nissan LEAF that now has a max 100% charged range of 30 miles, range is king for us, and it was the 300-mile-plus range of our Tesla LR RWD that enabled us to sell the ICE and be all-EV (well, there’s the 1964 Ford Thunderbird in the garage but that’s just for a few hundred miles of fun every year). Shorter ranges would not work due to cold weather and heater range losses. An extreme example for sure, but if we wanted to go on a 50-mile (one way) trip in the LEAF we’d have to stop 3 times. Even if we could charge quickly (we can’t) we’d still have to stop 3 times. No, just no. I want to stop when I want to stop, not because the car mandates I stop to continue running.

My ICE vehicles could go well over 300 miles, gas stations are everywhere, and fill-ups are quick. I would never have bought an ICE vehicle with only the ability to go 200 miles and have to fill more often...silliness to me.

What I really want is a nuclear option like a submarine where the fuel last for the design life of the vehicle with no recharging. Unlimited range. The best.

Iwantmy3 | 27 novembre 2019

vmulla,
"Someday I would like to have a friendly race between two Model 3s, one SR and another LR both doing the same speed and following on-board nav guidance on charging"

Sorry, but the LR would win by far on extended length trips. The charge speed on the LR is faster in proportion to the size of the battery. Even if they made the same stops forcing the LR to stop at all the same chargers, the LR would still get there faster.

When travelling a long distance, time is important. Making the extra stops necessary for the LR boarders on being inconvenient. Doing the same trip in the SR+ starts to push the limits of impractical. I could seriously consider the Cybertruck just for the 500 mile range even though I have no need for a truck or the performance of the 3 motor variant.

JimShaw | 27 novembre 2019

I have an SR and so far, never needed to plug into a Superchager.

Always charge at home.