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Does the Bolt have too much range?

Does the Bolt have too much range?

I know that most people will disagree with me, but I think the Bolt has too much range. I know most, especially first time, electric car drivers want as much range as they can get, but really, what is it used for?

The Bolt makes a good city car. Most drivers drive well under a hundred miles a day. Getting down to this number by removing battery weight would increase efficiency.

The Tesla can use its range for long distance travel but the Bolt, without a supercharger network, really cannot. You could drive to a destination within 200 miles as long as you have access to an L2 charger and the ability to leave the car there overnight. Otherwise you could only travel about a hundred miles away from home. Less if you want to drive anywhere once you get there.

Without ubiquitous high speed charging, I don't see the ability to travel so I see the extra range as useless. It is good for marketing though as no one would be talking about it if it had 100 mile range.

SamO | 20 marzo 2017

But new and improved FUD.

jordanrichard | 21 marzo 2017

The mere fact that the Bolts are being discounted, means demand has already softened. In that article, the dealer said they had more cars on the way, even though they are already discounting the ones they have on hand. I assume that means what they have coming were cars they had previously ordered, expecting a large demand, but at the moment, the demand has softened enough for them to do discounts.

Carl, you do realize that GM's real customers are the dealers. If a Chevy dealer orders/buys 100 Camaros from GM, GM counts those 100 cars as sold. The fact that those cars never get sold, makes no difference because as far as GM is considered, those Camaros were sold.

If one wants the absolute best way to gauge a car's demand amongst the car buying public, then you would have to count car registrations.

In the late 80's, Ford laid claim to having the number one selling car in America, the Taurus. At the same time, Honda laid the same claim about their Accord. They were both right, but not really. All of Honda's Accord sales were to individuals, where as a very large portion of Taurus's were sold to fleets. So the popularity of the Taurus was greatly over exaggerated.

Also don't forget, GM said that the Bolt would be sold to Lyft drivers and a fleet outfit (I forget the name). Point being, you have to look at where the numbers are coming from.

Carl Thompson | 21 marzo 2017

jordanrichard:
"Carl, you do realize that GM's real customers are the dealers. If a Chevy dealer orders/buys 100 Camaros from GM, GM counts those 100 cars as sold. The fact that those cars never get sold, makes no difference because as far as GM is considered, those Camaros were sold."

Dealers aren't in the habit of buying cars they don't think they can sell. And do you _really_ think that dealers sit on cars that "never get sold?" Really? They just sit on the lot forever? Even if the demand isn't what they expected they still sell the car. They'll sell it a lower price than they'd like if they have to. It doesn't matter. It's still an EV that's going to be driven and hopefully replace an ICE car.

Carl

SamO | 21 marzo 2017

@jordanrichard,

Dealers never go out of business or bankrupt. Ever.

And dealer's never buy cars that the public doesn't want. Ever.

Especially, . . . extraordinary cars like the Bolt.

Rocky_H | 21 marzo 2017

@JayInJapan, Yeah, I was wondering why I saw so many more comments go by before someone challenged that falsehood.

Carl, care to give a citation to any terms of service that say this?
"Tesla agrees with this which is why it's against Tesla's terms of service to use superchargers in your own area."

That is definitely not true.

Carl Thompson | 21 marzo 2017

@Rocky_H

I'm not sure why something I wrote in a different topic was quoted here without context. But I was incorrect; here is what I said later in that same thread.

"To answer my own question I guess what I had read was coverage of Tesla's letter to users which said in part:

'The Supercharger Network’s intent remains to expand and enhance your long distance travel while providing the flexibility for occasional needed use during local trips.'

So it appears I was in fact correct in my belief that the supercharger network is meant for long distance travel and not for locals to use as their regular charger.

However I was incorrect when I stated that that Tesla does not allow owners to use superchargers locally. Tesla only strongly discourages it which is not the same as forbidding it."

And here's the original thread with the full conversation:

- https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/possible-1-selling-car-usa

Badbot | 21 marzo 2017

"I suspect Namath could still throw a football farther than you. ;-)"

big deal! I bet joe can't throw a bowling ball farther that I can...................................................................................................................................................................................throw a football

(ducks)

JayInJapan | 21 marzo 2017

Page 4 of this thread, @carl. You've spread misinformation in more than one thread.

JayInJapan | 21 marzo 2017

And, @carl, you're quoting here from a letter that has been acknowledged as a mistake. More misinformation...

Carl Thompson | 21 marzo 2017

JayInJapan:
"And, @carl, you're quoting here from a letter that has been acknowledged as a mistake. More misinformation..."

I haven't heard before that Tesla believes the letter they sent was a mistake. Please post a link / source / whatever where they say that.

Carl

jordanrichard | 22 marzo 2017

Eagles, they also made the Chevy Camaro the Car of the Year in recent times. So what was that attributed to?

Rocky_H | 22 marzo 2017

@Carl, Quote: "I'm not sure why something I wrote in a different topic was quoted here without context. But I was incorrect; here is what I said later in that same thread."

That is a direct quote from you from page 4 of THIS THREAD, where you FIRST said it on March 18th, so it's not from somewhere else. I never saw that other one you're referring to until just now when you linked to it, so I didn't know you were hashing it out over there, because I hadn't read it. That other thread about #1 selling car was started March 19th, and your similar comments (which are not what I quoted) were March 20th. I just asked for you to back that assertion that you made in this topic--pretty straightforward.

Carl Thompson | 22 marzo 2017

@Rocky_H

Yeah, JayInJapan already said that. And again that was resolved many, many posts ago.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 22 marzo 2017

@EaglesPDX

True... But the topic actually whether the Bolt has _too much_ range. Not whether it has more base range than Teslas.

Carl

Carl Thompson | 22 marzo 2017

@EaglesPDX

I definitely agree there is a double standard going on here. But that's to be expected; this is after all a pro-Tesla forum. I would suggest that you don't need to emphasize the Bolt's excellent range quite so often. It would be more effective to just remind remind people every now and then.

Carl

SamO | 22 marzo 2017

This Teslarati said the Bolt had too much range. Get your talking points straight.

Flagged.

KP in NPT | 22 marzo 2017

Poor victim Eagles.

Flagged for being a baby.

bigd | 22 marzo 2017

EaglesPDX "not be harassed" Eagles, I agree with some of your post (not many, but some). However, when you say harassed you have made an ass of yourself. You constantly use the term T3 or T2 or whatever. Eagles, you know it this inflammatory.If you really wanted to have a discussion you would not use T3, or whatever you wish to call them, but say M3!!!!! just saying.

bigd | 22 marzo 2017

you know it this inflammatory should be you know this is inflammatory

Carl Thompson | 22 marzo 2017

EaglesPDX:
"Well Tesla told us when we put our $1,000 deposit down and invited to use the forum that it was "to get more information from Tesla and other Tesla buyers", not be harassed by some old guys replaying Lord of the Flies as an online game."

I agree there are people here that don't respect the opinions of others and don't know how to have a civilized intellectual debate.

Carl

KP in NPT | 22 marzo 2017

Long history one would know though experience.

Ivan_c213 | 22 marzo 2017

The chevy bolt is also not a good looking. I would not buy or drive a car if it did not look good regardless of how many miles it can drive without recharging.

Carl Thompson | 22 marzo 2017

Ivan_c213:
"The chevy bolt is also not a good looking. I would not buy or drive a car if it did not look good regardless of how many miles it can drive without recharging."

I agree the Bolt is not a good looking car. But I currently drive a much uglier car (BMW i3) because I wanted an electric car. It depends on your priorities.

Carl

SUN 2 DRV | 23 marzo 2017

No the Bolt does not have too much range. I have an MS and LOVE it. I need a long range EV and use 150 rated miles daily... but I fly for long distance trips.

The Bolt is cute, the Model 3 is sexy. Either style works for me...

If I were buying again now, I'd seriously consider the Bolt vs the Model 3. Bolt has a hatch which I'd use every week and Model 3 has supercharging which I'd use once a year.

So frankly it'd come down to how useful vs inconvenient the Model 3's trunk is. I'd prefer the Model 3 if the trunk is sufficient for weekend DIY chores. But otherwise I'd seriously consider the Bolt... or a used MS.

Carl Thompson | 23 marzo 2017

@SUN 2 DRV

You have sound reasoning but I'd be careful saying things like that here. There are people on this forum that might flame you for saying that.

Carl

dyefrog | 23 marzo 2017

If there were no model 3, I could possibly move up to the Bolt but after living with a FWD EV through 2 winters in upstate NY, I'll try to avoid another. Unfortunately, it would never work as my only car so the Model 3 actually saves me about $20k that I won't need to spend on an ICEV if I had a bolt.

Carl Thompson | 23 marzo 2017

@dyefrog

I agree that having the Model 3 (or any Tesla) allows you to have everything in one car so you don't _need_ an ICE car. But if for some reason you bought a Bolt instead you wouldn't need to _buy_ an ICE car either. For most people it would be a lot cheaper to just _rent_ an ICE car (or a Tesla) whenever you need to take a long car trip.

(Though I myself will still be keeping my Z4. It's just too much fun to drive! Maybe I can replace it when the new Roadster comes out.)

Carl

sosmerc | 23 marzo 2017

Understand, Carl. I plan to keep my Miata MX5 even after I get my M3, because it's just too much fun, especially with the top down!

dyefrog | 23 marzo 2017

Well to be honest, I already have an ICEV that I most likely will keep short term until I know without a doubt I can live without it. I take too many +320 mile trips a year to deal with a rental. So I really won't need to purchase a back up for trips but for singles who want one car and an EV without caveats, the Model 3,S,X is the only game in town. And yes, taking 11 hours to drive 400 miles is a caveat.

Rocky_H | 23 marzo 2017

"Yeah, JayInJapan already said that. And again that was resolved many, many posts ago."

...in a thread far far away.
(with apologies to George Lucas)

JayInJapan | 23 marzo 2017

Sigh...

Carl Thompson | 25 marzo 2017

@EaglesPDX , @SamO

I was wondering if Eagles would catch it when SamO said that!

Carl

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

I've said it many times. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. I drive the Model S60 with only 200 miles of range for sh!t's sake. It's that 5% of trips or 1/20 that the Bolt is unsuitable.

That's a lot of trips you can't make.

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!
200 miles of range is sufficient with a charging network!!!

Bighorn | 25 marzo 2017

But Bolt doesn't have a charging network--he the moniker "city car."

Bighorn | 25 marzo 2017

he/hence

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

Wait . . . do I need to explain it for the Nth time. Is English your first language?

BOLT DOESN'T HAVE A CHARGING NETWORK.

EXISTING CHARGING NETWORKS SUCK. SLOW. EXPENSIVE. UNRELIABLE. NONEXISTENT.

Echo . . .

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

For a city car. Absolutely.

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

Here's my original post from page 1:

SamO | March 6, 2017
@PaceyWhitter,

I agree. My 208 miles of range S60 has been plenty for multiple cross country trips. I would never have enough time in a Bolt. I could try RV parks and public chargers, but it would take 12 days at least, whereas I was able to cross in about 4.

And GM has no plans to introduce a fast charging car or a fast charging network, so maybe they should just give up. They just sold Opel to Renault so they've given up selling cars anywhere in Europe.

Sad.

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

The funniest thing is that you can't seem to understand the quite simple and straightforward proposition:

Travel 100 miles from home requires a fast charging network which allows EVs as a true substitute for an ICE.

Almost like you are paid not to understand.

Carl Thompson | 25 marzo 2017

SamO:
"Almost like you are paid not to understand."

More likely paid by Tesla to keep passions high.

SamO | 25 marzo 2017

You must have missed that line of 400-600,000 people in the queue.

Tesla doesn't do commercials, advertising and definitely doesn't need to pay Astroturfers.

KP in NPT | 25 marzo 2017

He understands. He's just hoping no one else does. Hence: troll.

Bighorn | 25 marzo 2017

Hmmmm--tstoltz clearly isn't talking about a road trip. Sounds like the bonuses of having a charger at your place of work AKA city car.

SamO | 26 marzo 2017

Yup we keep insisting cars need more range, except the exact opposite.

More charging.

will GM eventually figure it out? Maybe after VW shows them. They obviously won't learn from Tesla.

jordanrichard | 26 marzo 2017

This is real simple. Eagles, bring our beloved Bolt to ANY location and one of us will bring our Tesla. Then we will set out on a road trip of 200 miles out and back. Who ever does it in the longest time, has to leave the forum.............

EaglesPDX | 26 marzo 2017

Wow...so you think a Bolt and Tesla are equal...interesting. I'd definitely be the slowest time as that conserves the most energy. Even EV's contribute to green house gases so you still want to be a as energy smart as possible.

EaglesPDX | 26 marzo 2017

Bolt's not for me as no power seats or dynamic cruise. I'd have to get the Volt on the GM side which could do my 100 mile x 3 day a week commute all on EV charging at the super market DC fast charger a 20 minute walk from the shop.

SamO | 26 marzo 2017

A gas powered GM car can drive you anywhere?

Wow. Very impressed. But let's get back to the actual hypothetical. Drive Portland Oregon to Seattle WAshington and back.

Gas car takes 6 hours + 15 minutes (for one fuel stop).
Tesla EV takes 6 hours + 40 minutes (for a single charge stop)
Bolt EV takes 6 hours + 6 hours for charging.

EaglesPDX | 26 marzo 2017

"Drive Portland Oregon to Seattle WAshington and back."

Ugh...no one with any sense will make that drive. It's one of the worst on any coast from the GOP's obsolete I5 drawbridge with it's massive traffic jams over the Columbia to coming to a stop in Olympia.

A run from PDX to the coast (100 miles) or up to Hood or the Gorge (63 miles) is a typical family weekend run. A 100 mile daily commute (PDX to Salem...my commute) is the longest commute.

So the Bolt does it well with a 20% reserve plus the weekend run, even though it can be done in one shot, everyone will get a boost at the supermarket, Kmart or restaurant chargers before going home on Sunday.

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