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Discouraged by Elon's Tweets

Discouraged by Elon's Tweets

Anyone else in the same boat as me? I'm a huge Tesla fan but those flurry of Musk tweets are making me seriously reconsider my reservation. No AWD or performance variants of the car for a year? They are building the low demand RWD version first. Not only that, but it sounds like no HUD and the only display will be the touchscreen with the speed in the corner.

What does this mean? Anyone who wants a more premium model 3 is likely to have to a) wait at least another year b) lose any chance at the full rebate c)have to extend their current car possibly longer than they were expecting d) or settling for a lesser car than they had hoped.

The timing of this and the discontinuation of the Model S 60 is definitely a ploy to push people out of the 3 and into the S.

akgolf | 24 marzo 2017

It works for me.

I was hoping to wait until our house is finished and according to one of Elon's tweet I won't lose my place in line if I wait for an option like AWD.

Tax credit would be nice, but won't stop my purchase.

topher | 24 marzo 2017

"No AWD or performance variants of the car for a year?"

He said 6 to 9 months.

Many people were planning on getting 'full options' to get theirs first (when they thought that was the plan). Now it is the other way around. Deal with it.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a better option, that will be available in that time frame, to choose instead.

Thank you kindly.

mazur.stefan | 24 marzo 2017

Re-read those tweets carefully. AWD in 6-9 months. RHD likely summer 2018. I'm reading this like 6-9 months from NOW. Unless you were one of those who stood a chance of getting a car before September (unlikely if you are not an employee or on the US west coast and even then), this may have no impact on your ability to order and obtain an AWD as you are slated to configure.

topher | 24 marzo 2017

Rebates are better spent on people who would otherwise not be able to buy the car *at all*. Not let somebody afford a car that go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Awesome decision by Tesla.

Thank You Kindly.

4fishtankz | 24 marzo 2017

I read 6-9 months later. It all depends on later than what. I'm very disappointed too, and depending on what happens and the features of the first released car, I may have to cancel too. Don't want to be forced into a car now when I really wanted a car that will be offered some time later.

Rnobx67 | 24 marzo 2017

Yes, genius, rebates are not only for performance cars, or expensive. That's the master plan.

pavel | 24 marzo 2017

I'm a little put off too. I'm still hopeful, but this twitter diarrhea that just happened is not helping. I know it's going to be a simpler car, but I don't want anything that's dumbed down to a point where it compromises on functionality. I still have to see the final walkthrough before I can make up my mind.

SoFlaModel3 | 24 marzo 2017

Hey good news, I'm 3/31 pre-reveal and want RWD!!!

SamO | 24 marzo 2017

AWD arriving September - December 2017.

4fishtankz | 24 marzo 2017

SamO- AWD arriving September - December 2017.

I certainly hope so!

winston | 24 marzo 2017

Colorado 3/31 pre-reveal reservation here looking for AWD. Discouraging for sure. And I just learned Colorado has a bill to repeal the 5k state tax credit effective Jan 1, 2018. It might be enough for me to go with RWD and snow tires if that bill passes.

Carl Thompson | 24 marzo 2017

topher:
"Rebates are better spent on people who would otherwise not be able to buy the car *at all*. Not let somebody afford a car that go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Awesome decision by Tesla."

That makes sense. Good point.

Carl

carlk | 24 marzo 2017

Only greedy people would be disappointed. Things too good to be true never happen. It will not happen even to you.

Itrnhds | 24 marzo 2017

stupid question but, awd is not something that could be added at a later time is it? are we really being punished for waiting pre-reveal only to find out we need to settle instead of choose our car options?

ken.hixson | 24 marzo 2017

I can see where this makes corporate sense, just not a decision that is positve for me. Not certain the number of cold weather reservationists there are but RWD is scary in the snow states in winter. Glad I didn't wait for the M3 and purchased an S instead. I kept my 3/31 pre-reveal reservation but I really don't see getting the M3 as a second car now. If they stay this course then the Lucid Air becomes a real possiblity instead, unless you want a small RWD electric. Lucid Air emerging as an alternative. Timing will be very interesting between the two . . . if Lucid gets in gear and starts building a factory soon. Maybe the S becomes the second car?

KP in NPT | 24 marzo 2017

I'm not greedy. I have a max out of pocket price and the tax credit helps offset it. Otherwise I forego options. I'm sure others are in the same boat. I thought being an owner and waiting in line would help. Maybe it still will. But I'm concerned.

carlk | 24 marzo 2017

Another thing is the first 20K or so build will go to Tesla and SpaceX employees. Other than executives or engineers who probably already got an S or X those are not exactly your rich big spenders who could easily afford to buy a well optioned car probably north of ~60K.

carlk | 24 marzo 2017

Another reason could be Tesla wants to build the simplest thing first when ramping up production. Either way I'm sure there is a good logic behind this not just to "discourage" people waiting in line. Tesla could just announce it canceled the 3 program if it does not have intention of selling it.

topher | 24 marzo 2017

:awd is not something that could be added at a later time is it? are we really being punished for waiting pre-reveal only to find out we need to settle instead of choose our car options?:

Probably not.

No one is being punished, some people in line are getting their cars before others. We already knew this. If you were fine with fully loaded cars coming first, without thinking that people buying the base car were 'being punished', why is it different now?

If you want an AWD, order that at confirmation time, you will get it.

Thank you kindly.

Haggy | 24 marzo 2017

On thing that's clear about the tweets is that he never said no to an HUD. One would think that if there would definitely not be one, he'd be able to type "no." Instead he said that there's no need for a second display. He's also making it clear that the Model 3 won't be an improvement over the Model S, which is what he's been saying all along.

None of this rules out an HUD. If anything, acknowledging that there will be an HUD and insisting that the Model 3 won't have any features missing in the Model S would assure a drop in Model S sales until an HUD is added.

There were also many past statements about the interior, including ones that said it will all make sense when people see the final design.

AWD isn't something can be added later, but isn't something that the car will be terrible without. Most cars on the road do fine without it. The Model S became the best selling car in Norway without it. If you want it, you will have to wait. There are too many other factors to be able to tell what will make sense.

People were reading way too much into things when they thought that the Model 3 was a new generation of cars that will beat the Model S. Now people are starting to go the other way by thinking the car will be full of compromises. Yes, there will be compromises. You won't get a Model S for half the price. Instead, there will be whatever compromises are necessary to make this the best car you can get for $35,000. With tax incentives, it will be an even better deal than that, but I'd still expect it to be a better choice than anything else for the price.

Stop worrying about whether there will be an HUD. Instead, wait 104 days. If by then there's an announcement that the Model S has an HUD, I'd say it will look better for the Model 3 getting one. If not, it will probably mean that Tesla had something else in mind.

The Model S is a great car even without an HUD, so if you are getting nervous, then take the opportunity to get a Model S 60(D) while you still can. The dashboard display is more than adequate that even if you miss out on an HUD, you won't miss out on what makes it a great car. If you wait, you might want to look into a CPO.

Regardless, it's not as if Tesla is taking away an HUD. They never promised one in the first place.

jefjes | 24 marzo 2017

@ topher

"Rebates are better spent on people who would otherwise not be able to buy the car *at all*. Not let somebody afford a car that go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Awesome decision by Tesla."

Great point and completely agree! The base price point is what is attracting many first time EV buyers that may have been on the fence about EVs. This decision should help solidify that position even more. As far as any of the options are concerned, we all have to still wait to actually see what and how much they cost when we are invited to configure.

TheChad | 24 marzo 2017

This sucks for me. Only because I do want an awd and either a performance model or large battery because of how I use my car. I did stand in line on 3/31/16 but did so understanding that anything can happen. Just as people that want a "basic" version of the M3 were worried they'd have to wait for their car behind people like me who want a more eloborate version I now have to, and do, accept that if I want this car I will have to wait. May now be worth waiting for the Y if it's only a yr more out since I now will probably not get any tax break.

LostInTx | 24 marzo 2017

Given that the only ice in Houston is in my drink - and THAT doesn't last long, AWD is probably unnecessary and won't impact my 3/31 pre-reveal reservation. But Houston is built on shifting sand and have potholes that can be seen from space (plug for NASA funding - you're welcome) so upgrades on suspension is more vital for me.

I'm buying something at the end of '17. I want a Tesla but if the initial offerings disappoint or I feel I'm being fleeced by having to accept limited initial options, there's BMW and Mercedes dealerships across the street from each other.

Wanting to be green is nice but I want a Tesla primarily so I quit being panhandled every time I fill gas.

Color me jaded..

mazur.stefan | 24 marzo 2017

Just wanted to say that:
1) I live in the greater Montreal area: We have lots of snow
2) I've never owned an AWD vehicle, only FWD.
3) I understand the historical problem with RWD in the winter: engine in the front
4) I understand Tesla cars as having the weigth pretty evenly distributed: no engine in the front
5) AWD is an option I will be considering when I get to configure
6) I know someone with a RWD Model S that lives near me: no specific problem in the winter. Actually, is car handles it much better then my FWD ICE (that's no slouch either)
7) Of course, AWD, FWD, RWD doesn't change that we put on snow tires here. Its just the way it is. Your mileage may vary.

AWD is better then RWD for winter conditions, yes. But don't overstate it for a car that as its weight fairly evenly distributed. Its actually better then FWD in that case (you get an advantage going up hill). If you are able to drive an FWD ICE in your area without specific issues (and you are unless you have to go through rough country/mountain roads), a Model 3 RWD will likely handled it even better. But again, I'm stating this as someone who will be putting snow tires on that car regardless.

tommyalexandersb | 24 marzo 2017

If I were still waiting for the 3 I would be disappointed too. I wouldn't cancel my reservation, but I might wait to exercise it until the options I wanted were available. Although I completely sympathize for everyone, these tweets make me feel pretty good about my decision to get a 90D Model X. Got it 1 month ago, and it's way better than I thought it would be! I'm sure whatever 3 you get will be better than you think too.

plunderfest | 24 marzo 2017

I live in Minnesota and coming from a WRX STi... and LOVING the AWD... Thats what I will be waiting for.
Will give me more time to save for the car anyway.

We just got notice in the paper that the state is trying to impose a new tax on electric cars since the state wont be getting it on oil / gas anymore. Irritated about that.

slasher0016 | 24 marzo 2017

For follow-up he said 6-9 months for the AWD. He said a year from now for performance. So if you want performance you're looking at April 2017 as best-case scenario. And agree on the HUD he didn't completely rule it out, but i'm not hopeful either after the tweet that said you don't look for a speedometer in a taxi.

Regardless, I'm not sure what I want to do. I'm the biggest Musk/Tesla apologist you can find, but this was a really bad way to tell disappointing news. We all don't live in sunny California.

slasher0016 | 24 marzo 2017

For follow-up he said 6-9 months for the AWD. He said a year from now for performance. So if you want performance you're looking at April 2017 as best-case scenario. And agree on the HUD he didn't completely rule it out, but i'm not hopeful either after the tweet that said you don't look for a speedometer in a taxi.

Regardless, I'm not sure what I want to do. I'm the biggest Musk/Tesla apologist you can find, but this was a really bad way to tell disappointing news. We all don't live in sunny California.

mazur.stefan | 24 marzo 2017

@plunderfest

Nice car and, as stated, yes, AWD will always be better then FWD/RWD. Especially when trying to get out of a steep driveway where there's been freezing rain overnight. Just wanted to convey the point that a RWD Tesla as nothing in common with a RWD ICE car with the engine in the front when in comes to handling snow or icy road conditions. Its no different then your averace FWD ICE sedan.

Carl Thompson | 24 marzo 2017

topher:
"If you were fine with fully loaded cars coming first, without thinking that people buying the base car were 'being punished', why is it different now?"

The funny thing is I did feel that way. I didn't really have interest in AWD or performance but resigned myself to buying them anyway so I could get the car as soon as possible. Now it turns out I won't have to buy those things to get the car soon and I guess I should be happy but instead I feel... disappointed.

Maybe I had become excited to own a fast AWD Tesla. Or maybe I just empathize with other disappointed reservation holders. Oh, well. I'm still definitely buying.

Carl

Nexxus | 24 marzo 2017

Peoples, I said this before, they (Tesla) will have to show the world that they can build and deliver a $35K vehicle as a BEV. So, right off the bat, that's what Elon is saying they will do. Deliver the best BEV for $35K that you can get now. The more expensive versions will come later.

I want AWD and the next larger battery size than the base, so maybe by 10/06/2017, my selection in the free-hat giveaway contest, I'll get it.

Carl Thompson | 24 marzo 2017

tommy.blum:
"Wanting to be green is nice but I want a Tesla primarily so I quit being panhandled every time I fill gas."

Wow.

mazur.stefan | 24 marzo 2017

@slasher0016

If you are not in sunny California or an employee, I doubt you will get your car before late 2017. That is 6-9 months from now.

I really don't see how you can interpret what he wrote as not being 6-9 months from now:

"First in line for dual motor as soon as we can make it, which is probably in 6 to 9 months."

Carl Thompson | 24 marzo 2017

slasher0016:
"And agree on the HUD he didn't completely rule it out, but i'm not hopeful either after the tweet that said you don't look for a speedometer in a taxi."

I don't know. Musk knows very well that it will be years before any Model 3 (or Model S) owner can use full autonomy. I think that answer may have been a careful misdirection.

Carl

minervo.florida | 24 marzo 2017

I will not buy mine until AWD, it is a much better platform.

slasher0016 | 24 marzo 2017

I think most of us day one reservation holders were expecting their car near the end of 2017. But he's not even going to start building any for 6-9 months (guess what 9 months from now is 2018.) Also he flat out said no performance models for a year.

Tesla needs to make a post or an email to reservation holders and be clear how this is going to work so we have some lead time to figure out some other options (such as our current car.) If you are asked to configure on say July 2017, and the options you want (AWD or Ludicrous for example) are not yet available what are you options going to be? Is the configurator going to have all options, and if you pick that one you are told ok that's fine, but it's going to be a year? Twitter is a good way to answer and give tidbits. It's not a great resource for people having to make some pretty important/expensive decisions in a few months...

Octagondd | 24 marzo 2017

Think about this from a marketing and political perspective. As Nexxus said, they are building a $35k car that will be the best BEV on the market. There won't be initial criticism from the outside that the mass market Tesla is actually a $50k+ car and not a $35k car.

Also, the incentives are for lowering the cost of the batteries and what better way to show it than getting as many base models into peoples hands who get the credit than this. This also eliminates the possible criticism that the credit is being used for expensive options for rich people.

carlk | 24 marzo 2017

"are we really being punished for waiting pre-reveal only to find out we need to settle instead of choose our car options?"

Waiting pre-reveal gives you the right to get whatever Tesla produces ahead of others. It does not give you the right to design a car you want and have Tesla to make it. That should be very clear to you.

SamO | 24 marzo 2017

@Haggy,

+1. Elon didn't fail to understand the question. He refused to answer. Perhaps because it will/must launch HUD in S and X first. I'd expect some changes/upgrades when the 60 is discontinued in April.

But to be clear, I'm actually agnostic with regard to HUD.

KP in NPT | 24 marzo 2017

+1 SamO - He didn't really answer.

they didn't hire those HUD guys for nothing. I agree it's probably coming soon to S/X which is why he won't disclose it for the 3 first.

PhillyGal | 24 marzo 2017

@mazur.stefan - Completely agree about AWD and snow.

I'll take our RWD Model S in the snow 100 times out of 100 times over my RWD Hyundai Genesis Coupe and still probably 90 times over my previous car - a FWD Scion tC.

You need to know HOW to drive in the snow. (Hint: if you're passing someone cursing that 'people don't know how to drive in the snow' - you're the problem.) You need good tires. And you need to know that NO AWD systems will help you from sliding on ice.

mbb | 24 marzo 2017

I am fine if M3 does not have HUD display. In fact, I never drive a car with HUD before and this forum is the first time I learned there is such a thing. One display is interesting concept for its simplicity. It is consistent with Elon's comment about M3 being a stripped down version of MS. Do we really need two screens and decide which one to look at for navigation, music etc? The dash display is often blocked by the steering wheel too. The one display reminds me of iphone when it first came out. IPhone is just one piece of glass. Other smartphones all have fancy keyboard, and some even slide out.

Rocky_H | 24 marzo 2017

There's also this other possibility I don't see anyone mentioning. This could be about how fast they are using up motors. On the regular non performance dual motor versions of Model S and Model X, I think it is two of the same type of motor in the vehicle. If they start off producing the dual motor Model 3 first, they would be using up two motors per car, needing that part produced and delivered twice as fast.

They may be finding that they will have a bit of supply constraint about how fast they can get the motors versus other parts, so if they are only putting in one motor per car for the first several months, that may help their production speed. Totally a theory, but it seems plausible from a supply chain perspective.

joemar10 | 24 marzo 2017

This is disheartening for me. I am an almost front of the line, pre-reveal east coast reservation holder. My option wish list is anything that has to do with increased range. I am retired and my wife will retire at the end of this year. We plan on taking a lot of driving trips in the future. I understand that dual motors actually increases range minimally. Also, we plan on travelling in all seasons, not just summertime, so AWD would be nice. My plan was to look closer at both models when asked to configure my M3 to determine whether the storage (suitcase) size will be significantly different. I actually prefer a smaller car, and opted to install 7.5 KW of PV's on my roof two years ago with the anticipated difference in costs of the Model S and the Model 3. Now I am worried that if I wait for AWD on the Model 3, the tax credit will be gone. That $7500 may be the factor that puts me in a Model S. I really wanted to be the "first (72 year old) kid on the block" with a Model 3.

Badbot | 24 marzo 2017

I looked at the 2 twitter accounts Elon has that I know of and Nothing, where is the posting about no hud?

SamO | 24 marzo 2017

Even though a HUD is named after a head's up display, Elon may be using display in by definition as a monitor.

In the case of the team they have assembled, we are talking about a projection on the windshield, with the windshield or midair as the "display".

Technically Elon said "one display" instead of "no HUD" which would have been much more direct. But he's not under oath and has no obligation to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. He answered the way he did for a reason but I'm sure he'd Ben glad for everyone to think there's no HUD coming. Don't want sales of your flagship products to slow in anticipation of some big upcoming unforgettable upgrade.

SamO | 24 marzo 2017

joemar10,

Don't be disheartened. I am front of line west coast Pre reveal. The 75kWh pack is the largest that will fit in the car per Elon's tweet so there is no need to wait. That should net you minimum 300 miles of range. Compare that to the original S85 with 265 miles of range. Dual motors will increase range about 5-10%.

I've got the S60 and have taken loads of incredible trips including 7500 miles in 10 days. The Model 3 will be epic and you can still be the "first (72 year old) kid on the block" with a Model 3.

Octagondd | 24 marzo 2017

@Rocky, yes that was my first thought. They may be having an issue making or receiving enough motors to ramp up at the rate he wants to ramp up.

This also plays into how they slowly progressed the S from the beginning with better performance and options later. I think many people just assumed all those options would already be there since the S/X had them, but this is a completely different design and platform. Start basic and build up. Early purchasers may lease to start and then upgrade to the better vehicles later as well. This makes very good financial sense for Tesla. Two or more purchases.

carlk | 24 marzo 2017

Supercharger density and speed is way more important than extra 50 or so miles range for long distance traveling. Those will be constantly improved. For daily driving anything above 200 miles is academic.

SamO | 24 marzo 2017

+1000 @carlk.

200 miles is plenty for 95% of the time.
300 miles gets you to 99% of the time.
400 miles might get to 99.9%.
500 miles 99.99% of trips.

But with Superchargering AND Destination Charging, 200 miles will eventually cover 99.9% of trips.

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