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Why The Complaints About Pricing?

Why The Complaints About Pricing?

Maybe I am missing something, but it looks to me like the pricing on the Model 3 is an incredibly good deal versus the competition. For example the way we intend to configure the "short range" model 3 (nb two days ago none of use would have considered calling 220 miles "short range"):

Basic Vehicle: $35,000
Premium Package: $5,000
Autopilot: $5,000
Wheels: $1,500
Total $46,500

The Chevy Bolt is $43,170 with the Premium Package and Fast Charging port (hardly a comparable vehicle but hey...)
For the extra $3,300 on the Model 3 one gets Supercharger Network, Autopilot, Power Seats, 19" wheels instead of 17", OTA software updates, wi-fi & LTE, and a nicer, faster, larger vehicle. (Though the Bolt does give you 18 miles of additional range I suppose). That seems like a great deal to me. (BTW the Volt will run nearly $42k with far less performance and features.)

BMW i3 is $51,200 with the Parking Assistance Package$1,000 / Technology + Driving Assistant Package$2,350/Tera World with 19" wheels $2,600/Harman Kardon surround sound system$800. So for $4,700 less the Model 3 gives you nearly 106 miles of additional range plus autopilot, super charger, way faster, etc etc

Compared to the BMW 330e $54,250 with the technology packages, premium package, and 18" wheels. The Tesla is $7,750 less and, btw, faster, no gas, etc.

Here is a round-up of the main old school ICE competitors:
BMW 330 ICE is $51,575 comparably equipped (comparable acceleration).
Merc C-Class is over $55k with the parking assist/tech package, 19" wheels, same basic stuff and the plugin hybrid is even more.
Cadillac ATS comes in over $50k with 19" wheels etc. (weak automation functions, comparable acceleration).
Lexus IS 350 (need to go up to the 350 engine to get comparable performance) is over $52k with 18" wheels and the (not very amazing) tech package
Volkswagen/Audi A4 is over $47k with 19" wheels and the tech package (the A4 is the same size as the M3).
The Lincoln MKZ 2.0 comes in at $49,885 comparably equipped with a prius-like 0-60 of 8.7 seconds.

In all of these cases I selected the RWD option and did not add optional paint colors or other bells and whistles.

In short, I just do not grasp the complaints. This looks to me like the Model 3 is, hands down, the best value for a small luxury sedan period and by far the best value on an electric sedan. Now that we know it is available in a 310 mile range we are all saying "I want one of those instead" but that was never the promise. The promise was 215 miles of range and the best small luxury sedan you can buy for the money. Looks to me like Tesla met and exceeded that promise and threw in an extra-long-range option as icing on the cake.

Am I missing something here?

mntlvr23 | 30 luglio 2017

Not saying that it is not of good value, but some of the potential buyers were already stretching their budgets.

The surprises in my view were: 1) Not having a conventional base wheel - effectively forcing an upgrade for those who do not want to drive around with the aero wheels. 2) Not having more of an a la carte system for options - where you must spend more to buy a package of options to get the one that is desired (I know that this is common with legacy manufacturers, but up until lately, Tesla was allowing a number of individual options such as glass roof, upgraded sound, etc that were not bundled.)

TeslaTap.com | 30 luglio 2017

Nope - you nailed it! Some people like to get a crazy bargain instead of a good bargain. With the demand, most car companies would have jacked the price up another $10K. The dealers would tack on "dealer markup" to further screw the customer.

hoffmannjames | 30 luglio 2017

No, you are not missing anything. I agree the pricing is a really good deal, especially considering that it is a Tesla. I look at it this way: if range is most important to you, with the Model 3, you can now get a 300+ mile range EV in the mid $40K. That is amazing!

I guess some people thought or hoped that they could actually get the full package for only 35K but that was never realistic.

Tropopause | 30 luglio 2017

Agree with OP. Best deal around for a BEV of such range, technology, performance and interior materials. Bolt is hard plastic inside ever with Premium Pack, can't handle like a sports car, low-tech and is fugly! Everything else doesn't even compare with Model 3 yet cost same or more.

Just get a Standard Battery without Premium/EAP/FSD and you've got one heck of a car for low price.

TexasBob | 30 luglio 2017

I have to agree on the wheels. That aero is - IMO - seriously ugly. I note that not a single official Tesla photo shows the aero wheels. WRT to the competitors and packages, as you say that is a common practice and it would sure be nice to get more a la carte.

Davila1024 | 30 luglio 2017

Elon Promised a 35K Model 3. Looks like he kept his promise period. Surely you didnt expect a loaded vehicle at a 35K price point.

TexasBob | 30 luglio 2017

It seems to me that if we step back for just a moment and look at the comparable ICE vehicles something astonishing just happened. Beginning in 2017, an all-electric car with over 200 miles of range is now CHEAPER than a comparably equipped ICE vehicle from a high volume manufacturer. I mean who would have believed that even two years ago?

TexasBob | 30 luglio 2017

I should have noted above that with the exception of the i3 every one of the competing cars is also advertised as starting between $34k - $38k.

Mike83 | 30 luglio 2017

Great OP TexasBob.
Having an expensive Tesla Model S the M3 is an awesome vehicle at less than half the price. 310 Mile Range is incredible. Those new to the Tesla need to drive one to experience the thrill.
I hope to get a Model 3 with ALL the options by the end of this year. My wife's last color pick was the white but that could change; the other colors are awesome. The most efficient wheels is my pick along with adding a few solar panels and powerwall to top off the list.

Bighorn | 30 luglio 2017

You can buy a P100D or a 100D and a Model 3--seems pretty reasonable, a whole car for the price of a performance upgrade.

rxlawdude | 30 luglio 2017

Well, when you put it THAT way...
Big Tesla :-)

bpicart | 30 luglio 2017

@TexasBob:
Whoa! It's not fair to compare M3 to another car!
It MUST be taken apart feature by feature and compared out of context to multiple vehicles.

How else can the shorts cover their positions?? ;)

What REALLY bugs me is that the automotive industry has been lazy and complacent for SO long.

Azred50 | 30 luglio 2017

When Musk's plan ten years ago stated that he intended to create an affordable, high volume car, no one knows exactly what that meant. But I think many people assumed when a couple months ago he said AWD and performance versions would come later, the first available cars would cost much less than the $50,000 price tag (without EAP). He certainly has created a car people want. Whether that car is "affordable" is another matter.

hoffmannjames | 30 luglio 2017

Well, "affordable" is a relative term anyway. It depends on the person's income. Sadly, there will always be individuals with low income or no income who won't be able to afford any car, EV or gas. But I think the Model 3, starting at 35K, is a huge achievement in terms of making EVs more accessible to more people.

Wimpy ti | 30 luglio 2017

@TexasBob I feel the same way, and was starting to think i was alone based on all of the complaining. I would go so far as to say I am excited about the bundled 5,000 premium package.. I think it's an incredible value and it feels almost like i'm getting some freebeies with my original options budget. So stoked!

Also, i'll take a 220 mile range car + Supercharger network over a 238 mile range car ANY day of the week. I mean /really/ think about that comparison.

wmiller126 | 30 luglio 2017

I get the feeling there are a lot of <30 year olds who wanted the M3. Maybe to them this is expensive for what you get?
I think it's a smokin deal even before tax credits.

Mike83 | 30 luglio 2017

It might be good in one selfish way and that is some may cancel and I get mine sooner. They can have at it.

Tesla-David | 30 luglio 2017

I agree with OP, the M3 is one incredible deal. I have been MS owner for 4+ years and it was a huge stretch for me to get our first MS, but well worth it with no regrets. I am really looking forward to getting our M3 fully loaded with the extra range. In my opinion, Tesla hit it out of the park with the MS, MX and now the M3. Go Tesla!

topher | 30 luglio 2017

"Not having a conventional base wheel - effectively forcing an upgrade for those who do not want to drive around with the aero wheels."

There IS a conventional base wheel. It is under the aero wheel covers. Look up some of the release candidate pictures to see what it looks like (a lot like the custom wheels). Sell the aero covers on eBay, and get a Model 3 for LESS than $35,000.

Thank you kindly.

carlk | 30 luglio 2017

"Am I missing something here?

Yes. It's called greed which is a human nature. It can be balance by reasoning but many people do not seem to have that capability.

Azred50 | 30 luglio 2017

In addition to the comment above about some <30 folks who find a $50,000 RWD, no EAP Model 3 to be too expensive, I suspect there are a lot of other people who have the attitude I can afford anything I can either finance for seven years or lease. (I have an adult son who kind of has that view and it worries me a bit, but it's his business.)

While I have a significant mortgage, I would never think of buying a car like a Tesla or BMW unless I could pay cash for it. Of course, I realize some people who could easily pay cash choose not to do so.

hsadler | 30 luglio 2017

Ludicrous!!! (not the one that comes to mind nowadays)
But comparing that Boxcar - excuse me - Bolt to the M3? From day one there was no comparison.

OK - I'll race for pink slips. No no - not a simple race. SF to NYC. And I'll use the standard battery.

Ya gotta realize - the word 'Supercharger is not in Chevy's vocab. I don't need 300 mile range - I just gotta make it to the next SC.

After I win, I will cut off the top of the Bolt - should make a nice dumpster.

Mike83 | 30 luglio 2017

I believe GM crushed their first EVs.

TexasBob | 30 luglio 2017

@topher "There IS a conventional base wheel. It is under the aero wheel covers. Look up some of the release candidate pictures to see what it looks like (a lot like the custom wheels."

That is really good news. I missed that entirely. Will probably save the $1,500.

Bighorn | 30 luglio 2017

The 19" wheel option has the same sidewall height as a 21" P85+ rear tire. Lots of people wouldn't buy those 21"ers because of pothole susceptibility.

bogunsjohn2000 | 30 luglio 2017

People are unreasonable. I think you did not mention that the Model 3 base includes LED headlights, map & navigation and cameras. Well I paid $900 for the xeon lights in my BMW 3, navigation would be another $3000.

Also the warranty:
A German sedan warranty is 50k miles, 4 year warranty. Trust me, the thing will brake after that. The Model 3 has a 100k miles warranty in the powertrain. Great value anf priced competitively. Clearly no car out there can beat this value.

CraigW | 30 luglio 2017

For those that can't stand the standard wheels there is tirerack.com, where you can get a set of wheel for less than $800.

Shock | 30 luglio 2017

I'd be careful comparing this to the Bolt. If we wanted a bolt we would buy one, but most of us don't want something that looks like a chevy cruz but costs a lexus.

"I guess some people thought or hoped that they could actually get the full package for only 35K but that was never realistic."

No, but the base model is lacking in some absolute essential options IMO (and that of others posting on the forums).

operationdoc | 30 luglio 2017

Comparing a $35000 Tesla to other vehicles is pointless. The selling point of a $35000 Tesla is because it is cheap, high tech, "fast", with good range. Most people who are in the market for the entry level Tesla are not cross shopping with other electric cars.

Bighorn | 30 luglio 2017

The point is that other manufacturers aren't finding a way to afford power seats in a $35k vehicle. The economics don't work. I'm not suggesting cross shopping vehicles, just using logical thought when typing.

bmz | 30 luglio 2017

All these price arguments appear to be just ways to boost your own egos because you are not complaining. If you're not complaining it's primarily because you are ignorant. Everyone here knows that the model 3 is a better buy than the alleged competitors; that's why we put a deposit down. But what were complaining about is what we discovered last night--that Elon is going to ring every last dime out of us that he can. Any color other than black--an extra $1000 (even BMW only charges $700 for premium colors). If you don't want to pay $5000 extra you have to settle for an interior that Tesla will not even show us now. Someone remarked that if you don't like the "aero" wheels than you can buy nicer looking ones at tire rack for $800; well wouldn't it be great if we can get them from Tesla for $800? And how about the enhanced autopilot. The marginal cost to Tesla is essentially zero dollars. It is truly a luxury option that Tesla charges 9% of the base price on the model S; but if you want that zero marginal cost option on and the "mass market" model 3 it will cost you 14% of the base price. Every single option price that had been revealed to us was at the top end (if not higher) of what they cost on comparably priced base models from other manufacturers. And remember with all other manufacturers you can negotiate substantial discounts. So when BMW asked $700 for premium paint job, you can probably negotiate that down to $500. So please spare me the boasting of why all of us who were shocked last night are just whiners who probably shouldn't be buying a car this nice anyway

keydiver | 30 luglio 2017

I think my only complaint about the prices is the "long range" price. I have a 70D now, and I was hoping for a 270-280 mile range for $4000-$5000 more, which would have kept the price in the $42,500 range that Elon mentioned would be the average price. I don't need 310 mile range at +$9000.

elephant in a bottle | 30 luglio 2017

@phil Your arguments may hold if there are cars from other manufacturers that can compete side-by-side with a Model 3 ; Range, charging network, features to base price. Until then, you may just still be considered a whiner.

warren_tran | 30 luglio 2017

I'm sorry but if you think charging $9k for bigger battery is not insane. Can I afford it is difference from would I be willing to pay that price.

Model 3 will it be a mass vehicle for the people as most common feature will rack up to $50k car. That is not affordable by any stretch.

elephant in a bottle | 30 luglio 2017

@warren_tran The $35k base M3 is a great car already, you don't need to add any options if you cannot afford to.

knightshade9 | 30 luglio 2017

$35,421 is the average new car transaction price according to KBB for December 2016.

A 3 with battery upgrade, but tax credit, will be $36500. Barely above the average price.

That's affordable by the literal definition of the word.

and of course I don't know that we know that will actually be the most common option, or how commonly it'll be taken, once both are available.... the VAST majority of drivers drive far less than 200 miles a day after all.

And the base model is _below_ that average price.

cascadiadesign | 30 luglio 2017

I don't think in terms of what individual options cost. I tick the check box on those items I want and evaluate the total against compatible cars on the market.

There will be other cars that have a better or cheaper (insert name here) option. But what is the main M3 attraction? It's the Tesla electric drive train & charging infrastructure. And nobody else can match that today at the price of an M3.

You really have to evaluate the car in total. And as Lee Iaccoca said, "If you can find a better car, buy it!"

warren_tran | 30 luglio 2017

How is $49,000 with tax credit (assume those order early enough to get it) will come down to $36500? You can only choose long range and premium package as the only choice right now.

akgolf | 30 luglio 2017

They are still called options right?

lilbean | 30 luglio 2017

Put things into perspective. A Model S or X can be as high as $150k +.

rpad.tv | 30 luglio 2017

People are complaining because that's what happens on the Internet. I don't know how much it matters. Tesla isn't going to have problems with demand. Competitive BEVs in 2018 can be counted on one hand.

kiembbui | 30 luglio 2017

@keydriver I think Elon 42k price was based on a well equipped base range model, which he delivered (35k + 5k premium package + 1k color). Also, the car gets better with over the air upgrade. What car can do that?

cgioconda | 30 luglio 2017

Let's look at it from a different perspective. I'm currently leasing a 2017 Nissan Leaf (107 mi battery pack). If I bought it outright, I would have spent close to $35k. My lease ends July 2019, so I have a unique perspective given that I will likely take delivery on the Model 3 over 18 months from now AND have all the other EVs in the market to choose from when it's time to get a new car.

2018 Nissan Leaf will have approx. 200 mi battery pack, and may have autonomous driving as an option. Real pricing is not public yet, but we will know more in early September.

THAT is what the Tesla Model 3 is competing against - any cars coming out 18+ months from now, including several new models and an updated version of an EV that has major marketshare around the world, since Nissan will begin deliveries this fall, well before most people who put down a deposit on a Model 3 will be able to receive theirs.

My main question is what will be base functionality for the Leaf that would be an upgrade charge on the Model 3. Certainly being able to choose standard colors without paying more (IMO using black as the base color price is actually a bad idea because of the increased heat absorbed by the paint that means AC is a must in most parts of the country - further decreasing the available number of miles on the Tesla).

SamO | 30 luglio 2017

Because many think they *need* the bigger battery?

kiembbui | 30 luglio 2017

Don't forget the price of maintenance and gas on an ICE car. The long range battery for 9k is steep but you don't need that range unless your commute everyday is over 300 miles. Remember you wake up everyday to a full "tank" :)

eeb9 | 30 luglio 2017

For normal day to day driving, 200 miles is way more than adequate.

Long trips are where it matters as range impacts routing

Likewise when one gets a bit off the beaten track. The further I can go without worry, the happier I am. Some of my favorite drives are not doable at all without 250 miles of range, making the ER version a practical necessity even though I don't need it at all for over 90% of my driving.

knightshade9 | 30 luglio 2017

FWIW I'm not getting the larger battery for the range- I'm getting it for the performance- otherwise I'd be spending more than I did on my current car to drive something significantly slower than my current car....and no thanks to that.

SamO | 30 luglio 2017

@knightshade9,

How much did your current car cost?

MarlonBrown | 30 luglio 2017

Phil, your argument is so childish that I had to write about this. Elon can't 'ring every dime you have' in this car man. Tesla has to price the car at the market rate. Are you unsatisfied with the fact that paint (other than black) is going to cost you? How about if instead of the color now you get charged for a xeon light like BMW did to me? What is the difference? Do you realize that if you a buy a comparable car in its category (BMW 330xi or C300) you would be paying big time to extend the powertrain warranty? Tesla is including 100K miles powertrain warranty. That is probably a $5K value my friend.

I see so many people writing unreasonable things about this that I think the only reason is that many people who put a deposit are coming from the cheapest junk cars out there and are not familiar with premium features and cars. That is why they are so confused.

knightshade9 | 30 luglio 2017

My IS350? $35,469, special ordered from Lexus since no US dealer had the exact config I wanted

(disclaimer- it's a 2008 I've had since new- I could not buy the 'current' version for that price obviously- the current version would cost about 45k- which is still several grand less than the slightly slower M3 with bigger battery, premium pack, EAP, and decent color paint will run, even after $7500 tax rebate)

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