This will make ice cars obsolete.
The new Roadster with 600+ mi range is proof that Tesla is capable of giving the Model S/X more range if they wanted to. I think a big factor is still cost. The new Roadster starts at $250,000. Tesla could do a Model S with 600 mi too but it would probably cost around $200k and I don't think Tesla wants the Model S to be that pricey. Having said that, I do think that the Model S and X will get some range upgrade, just not 600 miles.
Which is why I said 500m-perhaps 400 would be best. That's about what most ice cars get a tank.
I think it will be 400 or maybe 450 miles.
Roadster starts at $200k. A bigger battery for the S/X doesn’t need to be that costly.
@hoffmannjames. I hope so. I would need at least 400 rated miles to comfortably manage a 290 statute mile roundtrip weekly commute.
With the way I drive, if I wanted to arrive home with 10% battery charge left, even the much vaunted 335 rated miles in the Model S100D doesn’t quite make it.
I agree, the battery on the roadster is super expensive driving the price on the roadster way up.
I'm also surprised with all that battery power the roadster only does 1.9 sec 0-60, must be a tire limitation.
Why is the battery super expensive? Even at $140/kWh it’s under 30k.
I highly doubt the roadster they showed yesterday could do 600+ miles. It's probably just a design goal based on where they think battery technology will be in a few years
New battery? New charging?
Tech for that battery is not the same as our battery pack. Definitely a tech premium on that pack
I read somewhere that they estimated the semi battery alone would be over $400K to get 500 miles. I think they are too high by a factor of 3 or 4. 2 kWh/mi * 500 mi = 1000 kWh. 1000 kWh * $140/kWh = $140K. I'm sure batteries will be a lot cheaper in a a few years, so it may be closer to $100K.
As a soon to be 75D owner, I’m more excited about the mention of mega charging. I’m hoping that’s backwards compatible and we’ll be able to charge up nearly as quickly as refueling an ICE.
@aves, why does a 290mi weekly round trip concern you? Is there no place to charge at your destination? Unless I’m misreading, that’s only 145 each way. Easily doable in any Tesla for sale.
Re: battery price, the $140 is Tesla’s cost not the consumer cost. Right now it’s $17k more for a 100d vs 75d with almost exactly the same specs (maybe 0.2 seconds quicker to 60 mph). So incremental cost on our end is $700 per KWh..
Tesla upgraded 60s to 75s for 2k, I'm sure they didn't lose money
@Flash - your 75D charging speed is unlikely to change no matter what Tesla does with new chargers, packs, and firmware.
What was that car Porsche is working on again? Bahahaha
60 to 75 was purely software not hardware
@Flash. My employer is a corporate luddite. In our vast employee car park, no provisions have been made for EV charging. Yet. The nearest level 2 charging station is 2 miles away, and the nearest Supercharger is 8 miles away.
Would love it if I could have the Tesla plugged in and charging at our employee lot while I was gone for three days. Then upon returning, I wouldn’t have to stop for a half hour at a Supercharger on the drive home, just so that I’d have enough range to make it back.
If a larger Model S battery back could provide me with enough “real” range to drive to work and back without stopping to supercharge, then driving to work in a Tesla would really be like driving in an ICE.
Of course, I COULD stretch the range of my current 75D by switching off the A/C and setting the TACC at 55 mph, in both directions, a rather life imperilling manoeuvre on southern California’s freeways.
The 60d never changed in price even when Tesla started using the upgradable battery packs. The software upgrade allowed you to access the hardware. So in essence it was a hardware upgrade also by allowing you access to those batteries.
"Would love it if I could have the Tesla plugged in and charging at our employee lot while I was gone for three days."
Have you scouted for 120v outlets in the parking lot? That would work for a 3-day charge.
Do you do a 100% charge every day? You can do a 290 mile round-trip in your 75D with just a half-hour stop at a supercharger?
Since I bought my P85 new in Aug 2013 and my battery pack went bad last January Tesla installed a loaner pack which Iam still using since Iam not pushing Them to fix my pack ( Theirs so much on their plate with the model 3) I’am kinda hoping when they fix my pack it might Have newer batteries, gosh I kinda paid for the R&D for the D’s
Increasing battery pack size produces diminishing returns - both in the size of the market willing to pay more for range most will use only very rarely, and the increased charging times.
The 600+ mile range of the Roadster is needed because that range is for driving at typical highway speeds (60 MPH). Frequently using "Maximum Plaid" acceleration or racing at high speeds will result in much less range. Plus the larger battery pack is likely required to provide enough power for the acceleration and 250+ MPH speeds.
For Tesla's profitability, it may be more important for them to focus on two areas other than increasing range in the S/X - lowering the manufacturing cost of the 100 battery pack and increasing the supercharging rate.
With other manufacturer's bringing out competing long range EVs in the next few years, pricing will likely become a larger factor in purchase decisions - and Tesla could be at a significant advantage if they can produce battery packs at the Gigafactory at costs lower than competitors.
Today, recharging a 100 battery pack at a supercharger (going from 10% to 90-100%) takes a relatively long time for a stop in the middle of a road trip. Months ago, there was mention of faster supercharging (megacharging?) - and if Tesla can reduce the Supercharger stops to 5-10 minutes for a 100 battery pack, that may be much better than having a larger battery pack. With 300+ mile range, stopping every 3 to 4 hours for a brief break isn't bad, especially if we could keep the stop to less than 10 minutes (not much more than an ICE stop at a gas station).
How often do people travel more than 300 miles per day, has to be a very small percentage.
400 mile range is cool but a waste of money for most. I will not carry an extra 300 pounds for something I do not need or spend all those dollars so my trip time is reduced a bit, we need to stop anyway.
If we our trip is more than 400 miles we fly.
A 100 pack charges in about the same time as a 60 pack. About 75 minutes for a 95% charge. The 100 can go further.
In the same 75 minutes at the same 120kW supercharger the 200 pack would get 140kWh - 50% more miles added in the same time as a 100.
Double the range, 50% faster supercharging - gets a lot closer to ICE than the 100. And with a faster supercharger (same cable but 800v 240kW) it would charge twice as fast as the 100.
How many cars have 50 gal gas tanks?
It's really unnecessary. Adds more weight. As battery energy density increases, makes sense to me to keep 100 or so the top and whittle down the weight of the car.
Very few people were not surprised by the R2 range and performance announced at the reveal. If and when the S and X's range upgrades are available, don't be surprised if you're surprised by how much improvement there is.
I see a price increase coming to S and Xs.
Pretty much all the white pick ups in Midland Texas, which is about 50% of all vehicles, have auxiliary tanks in the bed.
gas cars don't have 50 gallon tanks because they are trivial to refuel. I'd love to have 500 miles of range. Would I use it every day? No. Would it be nice to be able to drive from LA-SF without needing to stop? Yes. I only do that a couple times a year, but it would be great if I could do it without stopping. As it is now, I don't mind stopping to charge, but if I had the option to pay more to skip it, I would.
The reality is that is doesn’t take a 50 gallon gas tank. Our BMW AH7 (just traded in for a ModelX) had a 22 gallon tank and would get close to 29 mpg ona road trip. We would get close to 600 miles on a tank when traveling and only take 3-4 minutes to re-fuel. Now buying 22 gallons of premium high octane gas.....that’s a different story. LOL LOL
Tesla is selling the Roadster for $200K to $250K not because of high manufacturing cost.
It is at the low end price of high performance ICE sports cars and its superior performance means it will blow away all the German and Italian offerings..
I'd happily pay more for more range. Spend a lot of time on UK motorways in a S 100D and at higher speeds the range comes down v quickly. I think higher capacity batteries will also help manage the growing requirement for superchargers in the Tesla community. May be more cost effective than significantly increasing the number of superchargers to cater for all the model 3 owners....
Once the model s has a genuine 400 mile range at 80-90 mph then ICE cars will really struggle to compete.
@avesraggiano & tes-s;
Tesla has or had a "DESTINATION CHARGING PROGRAM " which offered and provided ***free*** TESLA Destination Chargers at many hotels, bed & breakfasts and other facilities including public buildings.
You should contact TESLA to get more info on the subject and approach your employer to wire a TESLA charging station at your place of employment. Any employer with at least a half ounce of grey matter would see this as a good PR example with great payback.
I am aware of the program and had HPWC and J1772 installed at a non-profit. I am not aware of them installing chargers in a company's private parking lot.
i agree tha the Model S and X will get an upgrade in 2018. also, we will see new Powerwalls, the Model Y, and the pick up truck sometime next year.
Tesla losses are misleading.
they are spending a lot on capex. new products and manufacturing.
avoid the negativity and stay long the stock. you won't be able to get in at a good price when Tesla sells a million cars a year.
if they can make tesla model s go beyond 400 miles and keep the price between 100 and 120k i think there is a market for that
tes-s, do you think they can push 240 kW thru the same cables currently on superchargers? That would be awesome if they didn't have to retrofit all those stalls to get better charging for cars. What else would they have to upgrade to make that happen? Can the existing transformer systems inside the fenced area at the SC stations handle that much more energy as well?
There are some incidents where the cable/handle have been QUITE hot as I'm finishing up the charge... but that's probably more just a rare random defect in that particular connector.
Yes., I'm pretty sure they can. Only question is if they have enough insulation and are rated for 800v.
Other than the wiring from the charger to the pedestal and the pedestal to the car (same current just higher voltage), I think the other equipment and wiring would have to be upgraded. So pretty much everything except the construction (pads and conduit should be fine).
Of course, I'm just guessing....
Looking at the charging connector for the Semi - it looks like they run 4 separate pairs of high-voltage wires. So a megaCharger may be 4 superchargers running at the same time. More likely they are something like 800 v * 313 amps = 250.4 kW each to get to a 1 MW charging level.
I doubt Tesla can run 240 kW though the current cables and connectors. If more voltage, they need more insulation, and if more current, they need more copper. Considering the system was designed 5+ years ago and were originally only 90 kW. These were light-years ahead of everyone else at that time. I doubt they envisioned tripling the power and having that added expense from the start.
Faster charging may be a better upgrade for the S/X/3 families - than continuing to increase the battery pack capacity.
I think it would be exciting to see Tesla come out with an upgrade battery of 500 miles for a Model-S and Model-X. I would be open to buying a new 2018 Model that would go that far too. Just a matter of time.
A few weeks ago I went over 100 thousand miles on my 2013 Model-S car which is my only car. Before that I had a Toyota Camry Hybrid car that would go about 550 miles. So, it would be really nice to be able to go that distance again with an all electric car.
I go about 220 miles on my 2013 Model-S car.
If I had a choice between a battery that was twice the capacity vs one that was the same capacity but twice the charging speed, I'd take the former.
@Chunky Jr. Me too. I wouldn’t even mind having to charge longer if it meant going farther on a single charge.
ddeboy, can i borrow your crystal ball?
Chunky Jr. +1
The current batteries are actually charging faster than recommended by Panasonic, I doubt they will try to charge them any faster.
@Chunky Jr. and his +1 fans,
You folks haven't grasped the concept of batteries yet.
Larger capacity => faster charging speed => More power => faster acceleration => higher top speed => longer range.
The larger capacity costs more though. Once you've swallowed the higher cost of the higher capacity, the rest is basically free. There's no "I'd rather this than that" unless you're willing to wait for some technological breakthrough that may never happen or may take a long time.