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Dual charger option - should I buy it?

Dual charger option - should I buy it?

I've just ordered my S85 with delivery scheduled for "November".

Yesterday I got a call from an inside sales rep telling me that Tesla has decided to offer the twin charger separate from the high power home charging option. The price is $1,600 (Canadian). I must decide by the end of the week if I want this in my new car.

Apparently there are a lot of 90 amp charging stations being deployed across Canada and the twin charger will get the most from these.

This does sound like a useful piece of future proofing, but I thought I'd ask the group before making my decision.

Many thanks,
David.

DallasTXModelS | 29 settembre 2013

No need to get it now for use in the future. If you're not getting the HPWC for your home now. The second charger can easily be added if the future should be so good. The twin charger is an accessory available on the website that can be installed at your service center if and when you actually need it.

wcalvin | 29 settembre 2013

But it costs more retrofit.

Since OP is Canadian, there is that string of 70 amp chargers across the country that make a second 10kw charger worthwhile.

stevenmaifert | 29 settembre 2013

Don't know what the retrofit will cost in Canadian dollars, but in the lower 48, it's much more expensive than if you ordered it with the car. Assess your driving requirements. How often will you REALLY need the faster charging from the dual chargers. If the answers is hardly ever, then save your money. But, if it's something you will use often, then it's worth the investment and order it with the car.

Mark K | 29 settembre 2013

Unless your very price sensitive, definitely get it. At USD 1500 it's a low cost way to significantly extend the flexibility of your battery. We have two Model S and both have it. At our home HPWC we can top up the pack in minutes.

We get 62 miles of charge per hour, and that really helps when you want to refresh the pack before you go out again for evening activity.

Also will be of use on the sun country highway in Canada. (Lots of 70 amp locations)

Adding it later is US3600!

kback | 29 settembre 2013

I didn't get it, but I wish I had. There will be more high power public chargers coming that, while not as fast as superchargers, will be a lot faster than the current ones. Also, if you're traveling and need to add some miles, you can try to find a Tesla owner with an HPWC and charge twice as fast. I think for the future it's worth having, even if you won't use it now.

tes-s | 29 settembre 2013

I'd go for it (and did), and with all the high-current chargers in Canada I highly recommend getting it.

Bighorn | 29 settembre 2013

Yes.

Brian H | 29 settembre 2013

Yes, I have no hesitation in spending your money on it. Because it's your money. :D

celtrog | 29 settembre 2013

The Tesla sales rep in Santa Monica advised against it.......
He said it is RARE you ever have to charge that fast.
He was right.......
99.999% the charging occurs over night.
I have never had to charge. when I wished I had the dual chargers

Bernard Hong | 29 settembre 2013

It is a $3800 CDN with installation retrofit. I think it is a good deal as you will save charging time to most of the 90 amp charging stations along the highway from PEI to Vancouver. Yes across the country. Check out the suncountryhighway.com for more info on charging station and they are FREE.

Captain_Zap | 29 settembre 2013

If you are in Canada or the Northwest US I'd say yes.

Twin chargers gives you the ability to do some real road trips. High power chargers are popping up all over the place. Tesla owner's groups are pooling money and coordinating installations at popular destinations.

We don't even bother with chargers that are less than 50A unless we are really desperate.

Check out the Tesla Highway on Google Maps, Recargo and the Sun Country Highway (Canada).

eddygorsuch | 29 settembre 2013

I'd say that you should only get the second charger if you think you might do any traveling. Of you'll only drive the Tesla locally (or only to destinations where you'll park/charge all day before returning), there's no need for the extra charger.
Having said that, I got the second charger (before it was bundled with the HPWC), and I'm happy I did, since I ended up taking advantage of some roadster chargers on a trip to Las Vegas. (Once when I needed to go someplace, and they hadn't hooked me up until a couple of hours before I needed to leave, so the faster charge really helped.) I plan on keeping my Tesla for many years, and traveling in it as well, so I thought the twin charger was a good investment.

Volleyguy | 29 settembre 2013

David
I am from Canada and was looking at the 60 and getting the twin charger. I think what is more valuable 90 amp charging done everywhere where I can add 100k's to the range in 1 hour or some SC's that even Tesla shows will not be everywhere for a long time.

Brian H | 29 settembre 2013

Peter7, an EE, rigged himself a "Multi-Input EVSE", which accepts 2 14-50s at once, allowing 80A charging at any cooperative KOA or RV park.

Roamer@AZ USA | 29 settembre 2013

Much much cheaper to put it in now than add it later.

xradr | 29 settembre 2013

get it.

PapaSmurf | 30 settembre 2013

I think that the Supercharger network will make 80 amp recharging obsolete.
80 amps is not fast enough to help on a road trip. Nobody sits around for 2-3 hours for each stop.

We have 3 Superchargers already around the Pacific Northwest with a 4th coming soon.
That basically covers everything within a 400 mile radius. We can get anywhere in Washington or Oregon. Pretty soon, the Superchargers will link us to California, we only need about two more.

Once your area has Superchargers active, I cannot imagine a scenario where 80 amps would be useful.
So it really depends on your area of the map and how soon you will have Superchargers available. I already feel like 80 amps is useless.

DouglasR | 30 settembre 2013

@JamesM - How do you figure a 400 mile radius? If a supercharger is on your route, then yes, you can travel that route. If the supercharger is not on your route, your radius is about a hundred miles -- i.e., a 200 mile round trip. There are many routes and destinations where we won't see a supercharger for a long time, if ever (try to get to Lake Chelan, for example, using the superchargers proposed for the next several years). That is why the Sun Country Highway is expanding into the U.S., starting with the state of Washington.

@dkingsland - I recommend you get the twin chargers if you plan to take road trips. I didn't configure my car with twin chargers initially, and ended up paying about $4,000 to have the second charger installed. I'm glad I did that, however. Tomorrow I'm making my second trip from Seattle to California. The twin chargers will cut the travel time from three days to two even though there are now three superchargers on the route.

By the way, I'm delighted to hear that they are once again selling the twin chargers without the HPWC. Several people predicted that would happen. Good decision. I don't have an HPWC because I never saw a need for one.

Volleyguy | 30 settembre 2013

DouglasR

Tesla told me they were just selling the twin charger option in Canada? (Without the HPWC)

I suspect it is because we do not have SC's in Canada. We do on the other hand have massive amount of 90 amp chargers which might not be ideal but without twin chargers holy smokes it would be slow...

I for one am very skeptical of proprietary charging. I just can not see it...

PapaSmurf | 30 settembre 2013

@DouglasR,
According to my map, Lake Chelan is about 200 miles from Seattle. There is some climbing in the pass, so it might be tight on one charge. I suppose I would drive to Ellensburg SC (installed later this year), recharge there, then continue on to Lake Chelan. Then recharge overnight where ever I am staying. That doesn't seem like a dual charger would make or break that trip,

ir | 1 ottobre 2013

I would also recommend the second charger. I can drive the car more aggressively between superchargers knowing that I can get a quick boost from several 70A converted Roadster stations along the way.

qblack1 | 1 ottobre 2013

Yes!
If you don't have the dual chargers, you get max 40A which is roughly 30 miles per hour of charge.
Definitely get the dual chargers, and you will be thankful someday when you really don't have so many hours to recharge.

AmpedRealtor | 1 ottobre 2013

ABSOLUTELY!

You will never regret getting more than you think you need, but you will definitely regret not having something when you need it. With more high amp chargers in your neck of the woods, twin chargers make a lot of sense. Why not charge in half the time, especially if you put a value on that time?

Tilo | 1 ottobre 2013

Yes! Installation cost later is far more expensive.

I was in the same situation and went for the second charger, and am very happy about it.
There were a couple of times where I was charging at High Power Wall Chargers and was
able to charge quicker because of the second charger.
And you keep the option open to install a High Power Wall Charger at home later.

Gizmotoy | 1 ottobre 2013

This is something I'm seriously struggling with.

I'm in the Bay Area. It looks like there may be a half dozen old converted Roadster chargers I can use, and then the HPWC at Tesla showrooms/SCs. Other than that, not much.

I'm new to CA and want to explore, but I'm not sure I'll get any use out of it. This is complicated by the fact that I'm in an apartment building with built-in, free, ChargePoints, and cannot make use of the HPWC itself. Supposedly I can "return it," but it sounds like a hassle.

I'm not sure if it's worthwhile for me or not...

PapaSmurf | 1 ottobre 2013

After doing more research, I have changed my thinking on this topic. I was thinking 40 amps is enough and I will use Superchargers elsewhere. However, it looks like there are more and more 70-80 amp options around and being planned.

The various Tesla clubs are installing HPWC in strategic locations to fill in the gaps not covered by Superchargers.

I'd say that the second charger is likely worth is if you plan to keep the car long term. Superchargers won't be everywhere and 70-80 amps is fairly easy to get installed. Hotels and restaurants will likely make that available in the coming years.

Volleyguy | 1 ottobre 2013

When you guys say 70-80 amps do you mean 90-100? But the actual fill rate?

I am reading of companies here looking at Level III chargers. (not Tesla but other companies)

KathleenG | 1 ottobre 2013

David
DO ORDER the twin chargers! Especially if you are anywhere in Canada. We just completed a trans Canada trip 6500 miles in 12 days[ Seattle-Ottowa] using Suncountry Highway CS-90's proving the Model S is a true touring car. It would have made it unbearable if we were limited to a single charger ( @29MPH) instead of our twin ( @42 MPH).
Charge rate was 68A, and we charged @ upwards of 70KmPH rate.
SunCountry Highway has plans to upgrade the CS90's to CS100's within the next year and that will allow 80A charging with the twin chargers.
While these are nowhere near Supercharger charging rates they are pretty awesome when you are on the road looking at another charge 200-300Km down the road.

We plan to do this trip again next year but hopefully will be able to use SC for the return trip.

Volleyguy | 1 ottobre 2013

KathleenG
Nice to hear! We are looking at a Model S and thought the twin chargers here/Canada are really more important than the non existent SC's.

We really are on the way to EV's aren't we?

dtesla | 2 ottobre 2013

I recently took a trip. I was 120 miles from home and no charge left. I was happy to have the twin chargers so I could take advantage of a 70A J1772 to get me home all that much quicker.

cmaso | 2 ottobre 2013

I drive between 60 and 90 miles/day, and with a 50amp charger at home, the car is usually filled by the time I go to bed. Didn’t get twin, and don't miss it.

also, when i was making my decision, i was told that twin charger would only increase charge times if you have a HPWC... that was in the US and a few months back, so not sure if plugging into a 70A circuit would charge any faster if you have a twin charger... but i didn't read all the posts, and there are certainly people more knowledgeable than me on this forum.

murraypetera | 2 ottobre 2013

I have HPC twin charger, love it, would do it again.

ir | 2 ottobre 2013

cmaso: Yes, a second charger will let you charge at full 70A (out of 90A). Just like a HPWC lets you charge 80A / 100A.

Brian H | 3 ottobre 2013

A single charger maxes out at 40A. Any charge point that offers more will thus still only give you that 40A.

Captain_Zap | 5 ottobre 2013

Conclusion?

dkingsland | 5 ottobre 2013

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. And with well thought out answers too.

I did order the dual chargers and now I'm waiting, waiting.

I have the VIN so I feel a little closer.

Thanks again.

Captain_Zap | 5 ottobre 2013

Congrats on the car!

Gadfly | 1 dicembre 2013

I have just ordered a car and faced the same dilemma about the dual charger. I want it for resale value and for the future. I wondered if installing 100 amps at home would enable me to benefit from the duals without the HPWC.

I actually spoke with an engineer at Tesla Tech Support and here is what I was told. 100 Amp at home gives no advantage, ss the car needs dual inputs of 50 A each, which is what a HPWC does. There is nothing you can do without a HPWC, at home or anywhere else, to cause the vehicle to draw more than. 40 amps.

Having dual chargers only gives you an advantage on the road if a public station or a hotel/motel has High Powered Wall Connectors and he told me that more and more are installing them. [See plugshare.com] So dual chargers make sense only as an investment for the future and to increase your resale value.

And that is straight from the horses's mouth.

jcaspar1 | 1 dicembre 2013

I would (and did) skip it unless you drive more than 150 miles per day routinely. There are very few high amp chargers out there, at least in California, and even if you find one they are very slow versus a supercharger.
I think getting a CHAdeMO adapter would be a better investment.

William9 | 1 dicembre 2013

I do a lot of road-tripping from NorCal notth and south to AZ. I've regretted not having dual chargers from day 1. Don't need the HPWC at home (which is why I passed) but on the road it would be a lifesaver. All of the Tesla Stores and Service Centers have HPWC's and several have been owner contributed for installation. Get them!

PapaSmurf | 1 dicembre 2013

I used a 90 amp charger on the road this weekend. It was great. We went to see a holiday market about 100 miles from home. The map showed a CS-90 at the destination. Worked great. 208 volts and 68 amps. Recharged at +44 mi/hr. It was a free hosted unit at a hotel.

We pulled in with 30%, had dinner and did our shopping, then departed with about 80%. Twin chargers to use those extra amps made the trip easy.

Those 70-80 amp units will be more common out in the wild in future years. Get the twin chargers now for your Model S.

Lycanthrope P85 | 1 dicembre 2013

I've been advised (by lease company) to get the extra charger - maybe I don't need it, but the next buyer might and it'll be easier to resell if it's fitted.

Of course if TMC roll-out SC everywhere then I'll have wasted €1500...

I'm planning to install HPWC to at least get advantage of it at home.

Brian H | 1 dicembre 2013

srs;
Peter, the gonzo EE, built a multi-input adapter that lets him use 2 14-50s at once. http://electricroadtrips.com/day-3-from-charger-woes-to-charger-boon/

DouglasR | 1 dicembre 2013

@srsmartin1 - Sorry to tell you, but the horse is wrong if he said "There is nothing you can do without a HPWC, at home or anywhere else, to cause the vehicle to draw more than. 40 amps." Up and down the west coast, across the southern tier of Canada, and in many other places there are non-HWPC stations that charge at more than 40 amps. Most (but not all) of these are high amperage stations made by Clipper Creek or Tesla Roadster HPCs. In addition, there are many HPWCs available at Tesla stores/service centers as well as through PlugShare. Before the superchargers were installed on the west coast, these high amp stations enabled me to do the Seattle-Bay Area trip in two days instead of three or four. Now that the superchargers are in, these particular stations are less important for this route. But there are many routes and destinations that are not served by superchargers, and probably never will be. If you use your Model S for road trips where superchargers are not available, twin chargers make sense.

cpanatier | 30 settembre 2014

I wanted to bump this thread because I think getting the dual chargers is very important if you don't live within a dense supercharger network like California and you like to travel.

I ordered my Tesla in June and was TALKED OUT OF IT based on the overnight charging argument. At that time Tesla didn't tell me they were installing HPWCs all over the place in hotels, etc., in which case the dual charger would be extremely useful. So I was led down the wrong path, didn't get it and now it will cost me an extra $2500 to get the dual charger installed.

I have had my car one week and asked Tesla if I could get the as built price and they were adamant that I could not even though I didn't get it because of what they told me, which was only part of the story regarding the utility of the dual charger. I love my car and the experience has been good, but they screwed up on this one but I have to pay for it.

mrspaghetti | 30 settembre 2014

@cpanatier: I love my car and the experience has been good, but they screwed up on this one but I have to pay for it.

I disagree. It was your money to spend, your car, your decision. Accept responsibility for it.

cpanatier | 30 settembre 2014

Spaghetti- I asked TESLA what the dual chargers were for. The guys said "FASTER HOME CHARGING." He didn't give me the full story that HPWCs would be placed in hotels, etc.

This is all sort of a new thing for most people, you know, electric cars and Teslas and all. I chose not to get the dual chargers because of Tesla's representation of their utility when I asked them. I picked up the phone and did the due diligence and got bad information. That's my fault?

If I picked a bad color, got 19" inch wheels and decided I should have gotten 21s, that's on me, but this isn't that situation at all.

Rish | 30 settembre 2014

I say YES. We did it. Even if you "use it" a few times a year on the road, it is worth it in the long run. You will find that you will get real tired of looking at your watch or app waiting for a full charge on road trips.

mrspaghetti | 30 settembre 2014

@cpanatier: So you made a decision based on one input. Still your decision.

You could have gotten many other inputs, googled the topic, gone through this forum (the subject has been discussed thoroughly and repeatedly), etc. If you had, maybe you would have made the same decision, or maybe a different one. Either way, it's your decision. Own it.

cpanatier | 30 settembre 2014

I don't know why you're being so obstinate about it. Are you Elon Musk's kid or something?

Google it? Ask the forum? Sure those are all legitimate points. But I figured why don't I just ask the company itself? You know, the primary source. You're saying I basically shouldn't have trusted what they told me? Sorry, I think asking the company directly was pretty responsible.

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