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Model S - Charging less already?

Model S - Charging less already?

Hi all. We received our 60KWH Tesla in April. Since then we have put ~4K miles on it. We usually charge it daily, to the 85% capacity as recommended.

It started out charging to about 185 miles (rated), went up a little in first few weeks to about 189 miles but never charged up to 85% of 230 miles which is ~195miles.

In last month, I have been seeing a slow degradation. Last time it charged up to only 179 miles.

I am not too concerned about it just yet but want to see if others are experiencing a similar pattern.

Vivek.

jbunn | 17 luglio 2013

I have the same config but took possession in Feb/March time frame, and a bit over 5,000 miles on her.

Used to seem to stop at about 187, but lately been more like 181 to 183. Might just be my imagination though.

cloroxbb | 17 luglio 2013

Its actually 85% of 60kwh. The miles remaining

markapeterman | 17 luglio 2013

I think the car uses your wh/m history to adjust what a rate mile is - there is some mixed info from Tesla as to whether this is true. Also the various firmware upgrades effect this (mine got much lower with 4.5). Regardless, the idea that the battery is weakening significantly after a few months is probably not true.

Mathew98 | 17 luglio 2013

@vired99 - If you got the MS60 in April, the charging level was preset to 93%, not 85%. The EPA rating is 208, not 230.

If you perform a max charge the MS60 will go up to 212.

After the 4.5 update in the last month, the range charge was set to 90% instead. In essence, if you finish charging right before you take off in the morning, you should top out at 185 - 187 miles.

If your car finished charging at midnight and you don't take your car out till 8 AM, then you're certainly going to lose a few miles due to the standby draw of the on board electronics.

Overall, I think you are within range of the estimates. However, you can perform a max charge and check it right before it finishes charging to confirm.

eddiemoy | 17 luglio 2013

the guy who was hired from standford to design the battery gave some really good info on the battery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGueTKezPZE

at 1:10, he says the battery can last for 10's of 1000s of charges.

i wouldn't worry about the battery, plus tesla will warranty it.

i also read that after it goes down to a certain percentage, it doesn't go down anymore. i.e. if it takes it 5 years to go from 100% down to only 80%, it will pretty much stay there...

Anthony J. Parisio | 17 luglio 2013

Markapetterman is right. The batteries will take a good 5 years to see any measurable change. The number your car gives you is the same as on an Ice car. It is an average that will change as your diving habits, the amount of Air conditioning you use, heat, lights, head wind, hill climbing, etc. The only way to be accurate is to see how many Kw you but in for the miles you have already driven between charges.

vired99 | 17 luglio 2013

@Matthew - thanks for the suggestion. I will charge it up fully and see how many miles it shows.

BTW - I start charging at 11PM and usually look at the mileage @ around 7AM when my wife leaves for office.

V.

vired99 | 17 luglio 2013

Thanks everyone else who commented. Makes me feel better.

The Stanford video sounds really interesting in first few minutes of viewing.

Brian H | 17 luglio 2013

Rated miles has nothing to do with your driving habits or history. It's a straight extrapolation of the EPA numbers based on remaining charge.

DJung | 17 luglio 2013

What is the threshold of battery degradation that Tesla will perform a battery change under the warranty?

J.T. | 17 luglio 2013

I was under the impression that in the last update "shore charging" was enabled letting the car keep its electronics running using shore power over battery power. If that is accurate, as long as the cable is plugged in why should the car lose any miles after charging stops?

Brian H | 17 luglio 2013

DMP;
Unspecified. <70% remaining after 8 yrs??

vired99 | 18 luglio 2013

Mathew98, I performed a full charge and the car charged upto 209 rated miles.

DMP, Brian, yes it seems Tesla is unclear on what %age loss would trigger either work on or replacement of the battery.

Here is some good news. It seems based on a survey of Roadster owners, they are predicting that the battery will hold 80-85% capacity after 100K miles.

http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-roadster-battery-life-study-85-percent-a...

V.

Mathew98 | 18 luglio 2013

@vired99 - So you're going 1 mile over the EPA #...

Don't let the 4.5 release (lower from 93% to 90% range charge) spook you.

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

I hate to break it to you guys, but the Tesla battery warranty does not cover degradation of the battery over time. The warranty language is clear and explicit about this, so don't get your hopes up. From the way the battery warranty reads, I believe it is covering you against a complete failure of the battery to function, not against performance degradation. Also, be sure to take note of the items that will void your battery warranty! Here, have a look and check the bold/italic portion for what I am talking about...

---

Battery Limited Warranty

The Model S lithium-ion battery (the “Battery”) is an extremely sophisticated powertrain component designed to withstand extreme driving conditions. You can rest easy knowing that Tesla’s state-of-the-art Battery is backed by this Battery Limited Warranty, which covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Battery, subject to the limitations described below. If your Battery requires warranty service, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a factory reconditioned unit that has an energy capacity at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred. Your vehicle’s Battery is covered under this Battery Limited Warranty for a period of 8 years or for the number of miles/km specified below for your Battery configuration, whichever comes first:

60 kWh - 125,000 miles (200,000 km)
85 kWh - unlimited miles/km

Despite the breadth of this warranty, damage resulting from intentional abuse (including intentionally ignoring active vehicle warnings), a collision or accident, or the servicing or opening of the Battery by non-Tesla personnel, is not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. In addition, damage resulting from the following activities are not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty:

Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140°F (60°C) or below -22°F (-30°C) for more than 24 hours at a time;
Physically damaging the Battery, or intentionally attempting, either by physical means, programming, or other methods, to extend (other than as specified in your owner documentation) or reduce the life of the Battery;
Exposing the Battery to direct flame; or,
Flooding of the Battery.

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery.

Michael S | 18 luglio 2013

Here's the skinny:

Tesla's orginal numbers were shall we say "optomistic". A few weeks ago there was an auto-update that "corrected" the way the range was calculated. i went from 246 miles (80% charge) to 226 miles. The new number is now realistic (and actually quite easy to beat if you are not a speed demon).

I already have 25,000 miles on the car and am heading into month 10. i have lost an actual 2% of battery capacity. one should expect to lose 1% (from original) per 12,000 miles or 1 year of service. 10 years or 120,000 miles will loose you 10%. As batteries go, that is quite incredible.

Of course these are only projections; only time will tell.

Just don't worry about that first bump. We all felt it.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AmpedRealtor....Your R dead wrong! The warranty doesn't cover NORMAL degradation, damage thru car accidents or intentional and obvious abuse. NORMAL degradation is considered as normal wear and tear which is not covered by any warranty, a standard practice by all manufacturers. But EXCESSIVE degradation is covered because it's considered as DEFECTIVE part/battery.

pbrulott | 18 luglio 2013

Same thing happened to me around the V4.5 upgrade

I use to charge:

Standard: 190 miles
Range: 208 miles

post V4.5

Standard or the daily recommended charge limit: 185 miles
Max limit or trip charge: 208 miles

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet, can you point me to language from Tesla to that effect?

I am quoting the actual warranty language which does not contain any such qualifications as you have stated. The battery warranty very clearly states, without any confusing language whatsoever, that energy loss over time due to or resulting from usage of the battery is NOT covered under the warranty.

Unless you can point me to something in writing from Tesla, what you wrote is nothing more than wishful thinking and speculation on your part. Please show me where Tesla addresses "excessive degradation" and would consider that a "malfunctioning or defective Battery".

I am not trying to be argumentative, justineet, but you are putting out potentially misleading information that is in diametric opposition to what is stated in the battery warranty and presenting it to forum members as fact. I would appreciate it if you could back up your statements with an actual fact or policy language, as I have done.

Mathew98 | 18 luglio 2013

This is the verbiage from TM's service blog:

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/creating-world%E2%80%99s-best-service-an...

-----------------
Battery Warranty
-----------------
The battery pack in your car is obviously very important and expensive to replace. In developing the Model S, we took great care to ensure that the battery would protect itself, always retaining a few percent of energy. If something goes wrong, it is therefore our fault, not yours.

Except in the cases of a collision, opening of the battery pack by non-Tesla personnel or intentional abuse (lighting the pack on fire with a blowtorch is not covered!), all damage is covered by warranty, including improper maintenance or unintentionally leaving the pack at a low state of charge for years on end. The battery will be replaced at no cost by a factory reconditioned unit with an energy capacity equal to or better than the original pack before the failure occurred.

The intent is to provide complete peace of mind about owning your Model S even if you never read or followed the instructions in the manual.

Elon

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ Mathew98 - thank you for posting that, this is important information. I wish Tesla would just incorporate some of this language into its warranty.

@ justineet - I am very "retentive" when it comes to contracts because I deal with those things all day long. Very often, a dispute or negotiation hinges on the exact phrasing of a specific contract term. So that's why I took the time to highlight that portion of the battery warranty, as it appears to cover all degradation without qualification. The other terms used in the warranty, such as defect or malfunction, are not specifically defined by Tesla. This leaves Tesla as the sole determiner of whether something meets its unpublished internal definition of "defective" or "malfunctioning".

Herein is my concern. When language is left open ended like it is in the warranty, and we accept that language by purchasing the product, it becomes very easy for Tesla to grant or deny remedies under the warranty on a haphazard basis and without reference to a specific standard. I'm worried that Tesla's health as a company, if it were to decline, would allow it to change how it interprets such blanket statements so as to deny warranty claims if it is losing money.

I'm probably over thinking this, but it's difficult not to over think a $106,750 purchase. In the end I'm not worried, but I am also accepting the warranty language at face value and would not expect Tesla to offer me a remedy if I experience a loss of battery capacity over time. For me, it's all about expectations and I want to make sure mine are reasonable.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

AmpedRealtor....U should not read any line out of context. If you look to the sentence about u quoted in bold letters, it is clearly stated what they mean with LOSS OF POWER OR ENERGY not covered as a result of battery usage over time. It is clearly defined as GRADUAL loss of energy or power, not excessive loss of power or energy.

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use.

tobi_ger | 18 luglio 2013

justineet
Please re-read AR's initial post where he quoted the agreement:
"From the way the battery warranty reads, I believe it is covering you against a complete failure of the battery to function, not against performance degradation."
Isn't that in line with what you are saying? Where did he say it is not gradual?

tobi_ger | 18 luglio 2013

I.e. he said that normal wear/tear of battery is not covered under the warranty.

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet, I believe I said that. :)

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@tpbi-ger....I think u r missing the point here. AD is equating gradual loss(Performance Degradation), which is not covered by warranty, with EXCESSIVE LOSS(Battery Defect/malfunction), which is covered by warranty. If you read his post a little bit closely, he's claiming the battery is only covered in the event of COMPLETE failure which is blatantly false. Excessive loss is NOT normal wear and tear. That needs to be clearly underlined! It's battery malfunction or defect! Equating excessive wear/loss with normal wear and tear is just plain wrong! Those r 2 different things. If UR ICE transmission breaks down after 5K milies, it's covered by warranty since that is considered manufacturer defect. But if it breaks down after 100K, it's not covered since that is considered normal wear and tear.

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet, please don't speak for me or put words into my mouth.

Please re-read my posts. The wording of the battery warranty states that any battery degradation due to use of the battery is not covered under the warranty. Therefore neither gradual nor excessive loss is covered because nothing in the warranty mentions anything about "excessive loss" - those are your words. The battery warranty uses terms such as "defect" and "malfunction" where it discusses coverages. You are the only one equating "excessive loss" (however you define it, because Tesla surely hasn't) to be a defect. I don't believe Tesla ever stated this anywhere.

So what I am saying... if I am to go solely by the text of the battery warranty quoted above, no loss of battery capacity - gradual, excessive (as you, justineet, define it) or any other - is NOT covered under warranty. The only thing that is covered under the battery warranty is a "defect" or "malfunction". Justineet, you are the one saying "excessive loss" is the same as a "defect" or "malfunction", yet I see no such equivalency in the warranty nor any mention of "excessive loss" as you keep stating repeatedly. There is no such language to support your assertion in the actual warranty. Please re-read it and tell me where you see it, I certainly don't.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AmpedRealtor....no u did NOT say that....u said except complete battery failure, ANY Power LOSS from battery usage -- whether excessive or normal -- is not covered under the warranty. That is patently false. Let's try not to pile up one misdirection after another. That's is not helpful to anyone.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AD...I am not going to waste my time arguing with u in circles...I think people can read what u wrote and can make their own reasonable conclusion about what u wrote. I believe it's apparent to most people if not all.

R we into seconds or third already.....it seems to me...MR AD!

tobi_ger | 18 luglio 2013

justineet
Fyi: in AR's first post: only the first paragraph is his, the rest is text from warranty. And at the end he bold'ed the sentence "Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty."
If you refer to that above sentence, than it is not his, but TM's wording.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@tobi-ger....I suggest u read the sentence above your quote to understand what they mean "Loss of Battery" which is not covered. As I have stated above and by Tesla explicitly, it means "gradual loss" of battery power and energy. It does NOT mean EXCESSIVE battery loss as AD implies by claiming the battery is ONLY covered in the event of only complete failure! I believe this is clear to most what Tesla's warranty means and what AD claimed.

tobi_ger | 18 luglio 2013

Well, we seem to differ there. You seem to infere/interpret what it means by adding differentation between "gradual" and "excessive" loss. However, that distinction is not as clear in the written wording.
Not something that warrants personal attacks. And it is "YOU" not "U", even I as a foreigner take the time to type it out.

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet, I believe you are only arguing with yourself. It seems others have no trouble understanding what I wrote :)

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

tobi_ger.....u seem to not get the point. Let me just make 2 points and I will leave it at that. One, it's should be clear to everyone excessive battery wear is not normal wear and tear to everyone including u and AD. It's completely ridiculous to argue otherwise. Second, if u read the warranty in full w/o taking lines out of context, it's obvious the only form of battery degradation under normal usage which is not covered is GRADUAL battery loss -- which is 100% contrary to AD's claim.

PS: Pointing out erroneous posts civilly is not personal attacks. BTW, hope some of my abbreviations r not offensive to u.....on the other hand, going off because of abbreviations could be seen as being totally anal and an Ad hominem attack :)))

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet,

Here is what the warranty says: "Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty." THAT'S A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE BATTERY WARRANTY - if you own a vehicle, surely you would have downloaded and read this and it should not be a surprise to you.

Now, please, show me where Tesla "explicitly" states (using your words, not mine) that the above only applies to "gradual loss" (again, using your words not mine). I do not see the words "gradual loss" or "excessive loss" anywhere in the battery warranty. These are your terms, not Tesla's, and you injected them into this discussion - nobody else.

Where are you getting your terms, and where does Tesla explicitly state anything about "gradual" versus "excessive" battery loss? I quoted the warranty in my earlier post (the one which you are aren't able to understand, apparently) and I re-quoted the most important line above. So again, where are you getting your "explicit" information from Tesla regarding gradual versus excessive loss? Please post a link, a quote, anything. Please! At least tobi_ger linked to a blog post, you have done nothing of the sort other than proclaim that you know everything there is to know about how Tesla is going to administer the battery warranty, yet you can provide no corroborating evidence to support your claims.

Please enlighten us. I have quoted the warranty multiple times, you have quoted nobody but yourself and get mad when people point out that a) you clearly don't understand what the warranty actually says, and b) ask you for evidence supporting your claims.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AD...like I said I am not going to go around in circles arguing with u. People can read what u wrote in whole and can make up their own mind about what u meant. All I am going to say is u r 100% wrong about the warranty including the overall meaning and clarity of the wordings.

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

@ justineet,

I don't know if you are just uninformed or if you can't read.

THIS IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE BATTERY WARRANTY (NOTHING OUT OF CONTEXT AND ALSO POSTED ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE):

"Battery Limited Warranty

The Model S lithium-ion battery (the “Battery”) is an extremely sophisticated powertrain component designed to withstand extreme driving conditions. You can rest easy knowing that Tesla’s state-of-the-art Battery is backed by this Battery Limited Warranty, which covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Battery, subject to the limitations described below. If your Battery requires warranty service, Tesla will repair the unit, or replace it with a factory reconditioned unit that has an energy capacity at least equal to that of the original Battery before the failure occurred. Your vehicle’s Battery is covered under this Battery Limited Warranty for a period of 8 years or for the number of miles/km specified below for your Battery configuration, whichever comes first:

60 kWh - 125,000 miles (200,000 km)
85 kWh - unlimited miles/km

Despite the breadth of this warranty, damage resulting from intentional abuse (including intentionally ignoring active vehicle warnings), a collision or accident, or the servicing or opening of the Battery by non-Tesla personnel, is not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. In addition, damage resulting from the following activities are not covered under this Battery Limited Warranty:

Exposing the vehicle to ambient temperatures above 140°F (60°C) or below -22°F (-30°C) for more than 24 hours at a time;

Physically damaging the Battery, or intentionally attempting, either by physical means, programming, or other methods, to extend (other than as specified in your owner documentation) or reduce the life of the Battery;

Exposing the Battery to direct flame; or,

Flooding of the Battery.

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery."

So again, justineet, where does it say anything about gradual versus excessive battery loss? Not one word. Just one blanket statement towards the end (which I have boldfaced and underlined for your clarity) which clearly states that any battery loss due to use of the battery (that would cover basically everything) is not covered under the warranty.

Everything you say about "gradual" versus "excessive" loss (I'm quoting you now) is purely your invention and interpretation, but the quoted warranty above clearly proves you wrong. Again, if you have anything else to provide in terms of evidence to support your claim that the battery warranty would cover something that you call "excessive battery loss", please post a link or a quote from a Tesla employee or Elon Musk. I've asked three times now, but all you want to do is argue and call people names because you know that you have no leg to stand on.

Please stop telling folks here in the forum that the Tesla battery warranty covers what you call "excessive battery loss" because that is simply not the case. Read.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AD....and again, please STOP taking lines out of context by leaving out a preceding line in the contract which clearly defines LOSS of power not covered. In the journalism world that is called highly unprofessional -- if not highly unethical as well.......

Here is the full paragraph about battery loss coverage in full context -- to all who want to know the fact instead of misleading info based on half-truths!

The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage, is NOT covered under this Battery Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery.

AD...if u want to quote something for purpose of transmitting truth, don't quote it out of context. Don't leave lines which can change the meaning or add accuracy to the meaning of the quote.

I am ending this conversation now....I don't see any point of debating a point which is clearly not true...a point which argues that excessive power loss is equivalent to normal battery usage loss, instead of battery defect or malfunction!

AmpedRealtor | 18 luglio 2013

I believe I quoted the entire paragraph, did I not? Please scroll up. I quoted it twice, actually, in two different posts - the first of which you apparently were not able to understand so I had to re-post it again, which you still apparently did not read properly. Forget journalism - did you even graduate from high school?

The first sentence of the paragraph notifies owners that gradual loss is normal. The next sentence states that "loss" of battery power over time is not covered. It doesn't say anything anywhere that "excessive loss" of power is covered. The word "loss" is used without qualification in the qualifying statement. You are reading your own fantasies into this warranty paragraph simply because the first sentence was written to advise owners that a gradual loss of power is normal. It absolutely is. But the warranty exclusion itself (bold sentence) says nothing about "loss" being gradual or excessive.

Where the battery warranty actually does protect you is from a defect or malfunction (as stated earlier in the above quoted battery warranty). Only Tesla, based upon unpublished internal policies, can determine what is considered a "defect" or "malfunction". You may think that a 50% battery loss over 100,000 miles may be excessive, so what are you going to do when you call Tesla and they tell you that it's normal and not covered under your warranty? Because the way the warranty is written, they are fully within their rights to do so. It is Tesla that is the arbiter of what is excessive or what is within specifications, not you the consumer, and Tesla gave themselves a really big out with this warranty.

All I'm saying is that Tesla may not be so friendly and amenable to fixing everything and "making it right" if they are not healthy as a company in a few years. By making vague warranty statements, Tesla has a lot of maneuvering room to do as it wants based upon its financial health at the time. As I said earlier and before this disagreement began, it's best to go in with eyes wide open than with unrealistic expectations.

I'm curious, justineet, do you own a Model S or have you at least made a reservation?

michael1800 | 18 luglio 2013

Tempers flaring, but no reason to toss personal insults.

My DS is not the warranty representative, but she said abnormal capacity/range loss IS covered, providing it is not a consumer-caused sitation (opening battery, running car after warnings, etc). She, nor I, have any idea what normal range loss is however. I imagine it's a number Tesla is continuing to refine as they collect the Model S telemetrics TBH. Brian H mentioned something to the effect of up to 30% over 8 years a while back, but I don't know where those numbers came from.

Abnormal loss of capacity does not fall under 'battery usage' imo. The warranty wording appears acceptable to me; I feel confident about being protected from abnormal battery capacity loss due to reasons beyond my reasonable control.

michael1800 | 18 luglio 2013

*sitation actually was supposed to be situation :)

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@AD....clearly you don't understand the difference between normal and excessive wear and tear...an obvious fact to everyone. The former is not covered by warranty; the later is covered as it's considered mfg or material defect. Let me say one LAST time...maybe, maybe......u will get it this time! excessive battery loss is not normal wear and tear. It's battery DEFECT/Malfunction covered by the Limited Warranty! Apparently this very obvious fact is not obvious to u, though it's Warranty 101 any fourth grader would know, let alone someone who claims to be highly educated. As far as quoting U fully, yes, us did at times with partial bold emphasis which put the contract out of context and changed its meaning to certain degree. The rest of the times you completely left out a critical line putting the contract even more out of context and modifying the meaning of the contract substantially. Clearly u have some amazing issues in reading contracts and understanding basic warranty fundamentals or u have other issues which will take too much to get into at this time.....

qphan79 | 18 luglio 2013

I would like to chime in on this topic. My 60kwh, firmware 4.4 Model S bought in February has over 14k miles on the odometer. My car started to lose range pretty much from the first day I had it. Naturally, I was concerned and made a point to call the service department at Tesla. Fast forward over a month of pretty much negligent customer service and I finally get a response back....Their explanation (which supposedly involved weeks of data analysis on my car) was that I drove much more than the "average" owner and that my battery loss was normal and would tail off. Nothing about charging behavior or even driving behavior (avg kwh/mile is about 291 btw). At the time, I had about 8000 miles total and my rated standard (93% charge) was at about 181 miles. Now, the decrease in range has slowed down but now I'm getting about 178-179 miles on the standard charge. I am still concerned and am a bit jealous that others only have experienced ~1-2% degradation. Not sure what else to do at this point other than keep driving and monitoring the degradation. Any other high mileage owners out there either experiencing the same?

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

@qphan79....is ur standard charge still 93% -- the same as before?? If so, what u just reported is only 1% degradation....nothing more than others. Can u say how many miles u have on the car now?? Overall I would not worry about one to two percent degradation every 10K...that is about 20% loss after about 100K! Normal degradation which u should not worry about.

qphan79 | 18 luglio 2013

Yes , my standard charge is still at 93%, haven't gotten the 4.5 update yet. Current mileage is about 14k. I beg to differ on it being only 1-2% though. When it was brand new, I got 190 miles on the standard charge. Dropping to 179 is an over 5.5% decrease. Even if you use the max range as the true total, it would still be about 5%.

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

Oh sorry... I misread ur initial post I thought u meant u were getting 181 miles when u got ur car. But u did not say how many miles u have on ur car now...do u have close to 20K on it??

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

One more thing....do u supercharge a lot...on a weekly or biweekly basis??

qphan79 | 18 luglio 2013

14,000 miles. Only 3 max charges ever, no supercharger software

justineet | 18 luglio 2013

I see u say current mileage 14K....sorry a little bit tired...kinda of speed reading staff......I would just monitor it closely. If it tapers down to about 2% or less per 10K I think ur good. I think they did not ask u about ur driving and charging behavior is because they may have access to that info...not 100% sure on that though. Assuming u got ur car on Feb. 2013, from ur mileage u seem to be very high mileage driver. If u want to keep ur model S for a while I would seriously consider buying the battery replacement deal because based on ur driving profile it won't be long before u will put 150k on it.