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why people complain about the fire issue but not themselves?

why people complain about the fire issue but not themselves?

Everyone, i am from Taiwan.

From my point of view, i would need to say that these reporters are not fair about the issue at all.

If we drive a car nicely and properly whatever a brand is, do we need to care if our car may catch a fire?

This is a very important question for all of you.... Americans !!!

We should not chase the reason why model s catches fire after gets crashed that much.

Instead, we need to ask those people...Why you crash this fancy car and being so careless on the road.

As a driver, driving safely is our duty and faith. Since when a car catches fire or not becomes our topic..

As an asian guy looking into this question, i would need to say, you people should focus more on driving safety other than worry about a new technology safe enough or not..

Please try to think more before you hate something..

Rheumboy | 9 novembre 2013

Huh?

Low CG | 9 novembre 2013

Rheumboy - he's puzzled by our lack of personal responsibility and accountability. Spend some time in Asia and you'll see a lack of the victim mentality that has so terribly infected us over here.

Captain_Zap | 9 novembre 2013

In the US, being a victim pays.

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

As a tesla fan here, sure you all know how nice this car is..

To us, we think these people not driving nicely at all and

this is why this three time fires really burned out the stock price.

Why other model s owners are not having such issues?

Because they don't crash their cars...........

Wake up !!!

This car is not designed to let you hit trees or poles..

They actually should feel sorry about the falling price of tesla stock these days..

Captain_Zap | 9 novembre 2013

There have been a few instances people who have hit trees, barriers, walls and poles and passengers walked away unharmed in a Model S. Poles were even broken in half at high speed and then the pole fell on the cars. No injuries.

What you are hearing is from the press. Our press is not reliable and most of it is biased. They say what they want you to hear. There is more than one group that wants to see Tesla fail because they now realize that Tesla is real and they perceive Tesla as a threat. Here it is our responsibility to seek out the facts and determine what is true by doing our own independent research and by using multiple sources of information, just as you are doing.

lolachampcar | 9 novembre 2013

(1) The stock price was high in comparison to what the company is doing today and will do over the next few quarters. A correction was not unexpected nor out of the normal. Please review Apple's history as one reference. My long position remains unchanged.

(2) We Americans think everything is someone else's fault. I'm sure I can find a stereotype regarding Asians that would be equally offensive if I were inclined to look for such things. I am not.

It would appear as though your post is fishing for a response. I do not feel this is helpful.

carlk | 9 novembre 2013

In the case of Tesla fires the drivers involed they actually thanked Tesla for safety of the car and said they appreciate the fact that they were able to just walk away from the accident. They also said they will replace the damaged car with another Model S. We are not all that bad.

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

Oh.. well stand in the strategic point of view, sure

some people will try to make it big as possible as they want.

But i think to make a statement of how safe this car is should

not be the right responding now.

Instead, Musk should transfer this topic to driving safety.

If we all drive nicely, this car runs well and why bother the design

or the thickness of the battery pack..

Sometimes public awareness could be called on once we point

out the most original focus.

lolachampcar | 9 novembre 2013

Is the OP aware that one of the battery incidents was the result of hitting road debris without fault or carelessness on the part of the driver?

cwarner | 9 novembre 2013

Driving nicely is not a guarantee that nothing bad will happen. I was driving my Tesls responsibly when another driver on the other side of the road slipped on ice and crossed onto my side of the road and hit me head on. There was no way for me to avoid being hit. I am very glad I was driving a Tesla. I was not hurt st all because the car is so safe and well constructed and it has since been repaired. It came back like new. So the gerventment should investigate these fires. I think in the end it will help to prove how incredibly safe the car is. If they do discover some sort of flaw then having Tesla fix that could save the lives of even nice drivers.

SamO | 9 novembre 2013

+1 lola

In fact, all of the fires (except in Mexico which involved high speed and *allegedly alcohol) were the result of hitting road debris at high speed.

I'm all for personal responsibility, but exactly how are you supposed to avoid metal debris which fell off of ANOTHER car, and which is less than 12" long?

jchangyy | 9 novembre 2013

There are certain things you cannot avoid on the road. that's why they call it ACCIDENT.

NKYTA | 9 novembre 2013

Wow! @cwarner, what was the relative speed of that collision?

Glad you are okay and glad your Tesla came back like new.

Petitefogger | 9 novembre 2013

The OP's point seems to be that the three fires were due to driver negligence or malfeasance. Well, as to the first, probably not; as to the second, probably so, and as to the third, driver fault TBD.

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

i guess i am not trying to fight about the car.

1. some press, guess most of them, are way too biased

2. Musk not only should review the public voices but also needs to

let the public citizens know that driving safely is also the key to

avoid such issues.

3. sure, i believe model s owners know how safe this car is.

From the safety test video from youtube i have no doubt about it.

but, most of people don't know about this......

when it rains it pours.

Carmel.ca.us | 9 novembre 2013

As an Engineer I am always looking for ways to eliminate single point failures. Moreover, a single point failure that results in total or near total destruction of the car is unacceptable.

The root cause of the most recent fire was reported to be an unsecured trailer hitch separating from the vehicle in front of the Tesla model S.

The secondary cause of the fire was the hitch penetrating the underside of the battery case. I think that the most effective way to lessen the chance of future fires is to reinforce the underside of the battery case since we cannot totally eliminate debris from our highways.

I may have misunderstood the tone and meaning of Lo_Ray's post but I believe it is unreasonable to assign total responsibility for the fire to the Tesla driver.

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

i do know some accidents are inevitable outside the road.

but whatever a brand it is, or whoever the driver is, when it comes to an accident, battery design should be discussed but also the driving safety so that people can come to the whole point but not staying on the branding.

trentdebaere | 9 novembre 2013

This is becoming a very serious Pinto-level problem, and you guys have your head in the sand. I mean, there aren't many Teslas on the road right now, and for this to be happening happening almost bi-weekly indicates a major design flaw; a tow hitch causing a vehicle to be totaled. I can't believe that due diligence was this poor. Blaming the victims of these accidents is incredibly defensive and shows how generally rational people lose all objective reasoning when they have an emotional/financial investment. What I want to know however, is if this can be fixed with software, or it's a mechanical design flaw with poor battery placement/protection. Would it be possible to put another protective shield under the car? A new battery with different chemistry? Either way I'd be dumping stock, cause this is going to get extremely expensive in a few months.

TikiMan | 9 novembre 2013

It sounds like maybe Tesla needs to sue the trailer-hitch industry, so they are FORCED to take more responsibility that their dangerously designed products stay secure!

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

well, to prevent from getting this kind of issue is essential, but stock price is not my concern since i am the shareholder or the owner of model s.

I am just trying to see this issue as an public safety issue more than the design or the battery pack.

i am not saying who must be wrong or right, but if we try to be more aware of traffic safety no matter it is from the victim or the other should all be responsible for accidents.

Tiebreaker | 9 novembre 2013

Yeah, drive nicely and we can go back driving cardboard boxes and tin cans.

P85D | 9 novembre 2013

Can you imagine if a Lambo or a Ferrari would have hit that hitch....KABOOM!

Brian H | 9 novembre 2013

trent;
unmitigated Bull Hockey. Are you one of the posters recently turfed from TMC?

To all: read the Nov. 9 blog post by the driver:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/model-s-owner-tennessee

lo-ray;
Your posts are silly. And very difficult to comprehend.

lo_ray2000 | 9 novembre 2013

so many replies, finally got the post from the latest accident driver.

fishing is done.

Thank you Brian.

Make it complicated and odd sometimes is a way to get the answer.

cwarner | 9 novembre 2013

@NKYTA. I am not certain. I was travelling somewhere between 30 and 40. I was in a 50 mike an hour zone but the roads were nasty so everyone was going slower than usual. I have no idea how fast the other guy was going but he had already clipped someone else I think so probably not that fast. My guess is that the relative collision was somewhere between 40 and 60.

Pungoteague_Dave | 9 novembre 2013

TikiMan,

You keep blaming the trailer hitch industry and suggesting regulation. The regulations exist. People don't follow them. I own nine trailers and more than a dozen hitches (personally installed two more today) and am fairly certain that almost every trailer hitch (or trailer) dropping off a vehicle is due to user error, not design issues. There are very specific laws about trailer and hitch configuration. All of my hitches have hitch pin attachments with safety pins, locking ball connectors and backup safety pins, and two safety chains hooked to a welded loop on the hitch receiver or truck bumper. Trailers and hitch assemblies over specific weights have additional safety features, such as brakes and automatic brake activation if inadvertently decoupled, etc.

With that said, all hitch and trailer assemblies require constant inspection and user diligence while in use. Trailer hitches lying around on the road are like any other item that drops off a truck or car - a result of user error or negligence, not evidence of a product defect. I admit to once forgetting the safety pin on a hitch and later found the hitch and ball on my driveway. I have done the same with cell phones on car roofs (later found crushed), tools and keys left on bumpers, etc. One of my neighbors once arrived home and found a baby carrier with baby inside on the roof of her station wagon. She had bent over to strap another kid into his car seat, didn't look back up, and thankfully, the roof rack saved her from disaster. She's a great Mom, got caught in a momentary lapse.

Accidents usually happen because people make mistakes. That's why we need safety elements designed into our cars, and why TM will probably need to address the fact that it's cars can rarely catch fire as a result of hitting an object in the road.

jeanyvest | 10 novembre 2013

To be safe and legal, you should leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front of you so you can either stop or avoid it in case of emergency. Same thing at night. You should be driving at a speed that will allow you to stop or avoid an obstacle within the distance covered by your light beams.

That is safe driving. If you hit something in front of you, you were going too fast for your skills.

My two canadian cents.

carolinagobo | 10 novembre 2013

Hey what about the law? How come 3 metallic derbies in 5 weeks "I counted the owner who replaced the battery pack after a hit with a tow hitch" I'm not from US, but in Europe most of the freeways the speed average is double than in US, but in America we have
1 old trucks full of trash, construction tools etc insecure driving the freeways
2 Old cars like Virginia the state where I live just to avoid pay taxes, I've been driving behind old cars that you notice that the suspension shocks are broken and they just go 70mph, in Europe this cars are junk cars.
3 new regulations for tow hitch security, a lot of old cars carry a rusted hitch, unsafe, what about the fact that hitches on the road is an issue.

NumberOne | 10 novembre 2013

I agree that something should be done about the hitches. My hitch receiver has a bar in it, because I was rear ended, and I decided the damage to another car will be less with such a bar, and also my rear bumper. Also, I despise driving behind trucks, because I need to be able to see a long way ahead of me. My solution to the visibility problem is to go slower so I can maintain what I consider to be a safe following distance. It is pretty standard, but many people do not do this and follow too closely. At 70mph, not to be critical of the owner of the MS with the latest incident, the safe following distance should be about 5 seconds or more. If people want to pass you, let them and then fall back a little more. Is it more important to be first or get home safely...? Just my opinion.

SunEV | 10 novembre 2013

Regarding media bias: It's a cop out to blame the media.

Yes there is bias out there, but it cuts both ways. Tesla has been the recipient of some amazingly positive press over the last year.

I come from a prior 20-yr career in PR, most of that time running my own PR agency where we repped tech companies from startups to multi-billion dollar publicly traded firms. Our job was to get positive press coverage for our clients. Positive press coverage builds perceptions and awareness that causes your target audience to form believes and take actions that support the company's mission. Negative press coverage undermines the mission.

When crises hit, our job was to mitigate the damage, to turn negative to positive. Good PR is honest and transparent. It's not that difficult to do.

Most crises becomes crises due to a company's failure to communicate. If a company adopts a bunker mentality arguing with what is perceived as faltering evidence, they feed the flames of crisis.

The media's biggest bias is not what most people think. It's not left or right, or pro-EV or anti-EV, or pro- Elon or anti-Elon. Many of the so-called negative stories coming out now are from people who've written rave stories about Tesla in the past.

The media's bias is toward story. Three fires makes for a spectacular story, especially given that the fires happened over a period of a few weeks, and they happened to a car that was touted as the safest on the road. When you have a he said she said story, it makes for more interesting story because you've got parties with divergent viewpoints. What's the truth? If you don't proactively communicate with the media, or acknowledge facts, or put forward a plan for remediation, they'll begin to think you have something to hide, or that you don't have a plan, or that you're just flapping cluelessly in the wind. And then they dig and look for information to fill the void of information. They try to connect dots. That's when a company under siege becomes vulnerable, because the true haters (shorts, naysayers, doubters, pro-oil EV haters, competitors, advocates for competitors) are given a voice they don't deserve. Their voice fills the stories instead of your own.

A smart company with smart PR crowds out the other voices with their own.

I've worked with thousands of reporters. Here's how most of them view the world: Their job is to find, develop and write stories, and let the facts speak. These stories must inform, entertain or captivate. Most stories are formulaic. You've got the headline, which captures the thrust of the story. It's meant to grab your attention by telling you what happened. The first paragraph of the story reiterates what happened, and tells the reader why the story is interesting, and who or what is impacted by the news. If there's controversy, that'll go in the first paragraph.

"Despite Tesla's ongoing claim they make the safest car on the road, the third Model S in under two months went up in flames this week." Great story.

If you want to kill negative press, and prevent or end a crisis, you do it the same way you put out a forest fire. You deprive it of oxygen, and deprive it of new combustible material. Stories feed on unanswered questions, controversy, inflammatory comments by third parties, and facts in the face of stubborn denials. They spread unchecked and become all-consuming if they're not stopped. Unchecked stories can cause enormous damage to a company's perception and reputation.

Look at what happened with the first fire. Tesla stood like deer in the headlights for the first couple days. Did they have a team on the scene same-day? We don't know. They let wall street analysts and the haters do most of the talking. That fed the stories to the point that the stories, like an unchecked forest fire, started creating their own weather systems.

If on day one Tesla had realized this was a big story (they should have realized this!), they could have killed it by publicly acknowledging they experienced their first fire and they had a team on the scene investigating, and they'd fully report their findings as soon as possible. Say what you know, acknowledge what you don't know, and articulate a plan to know what you need to know so you can share what you learn.

Imagine if the media had learned first about the fire from Tesla, and not from a blog? The reaction, the public perception, would have been that Tesla was forthright and on top of things. It would have built trust.

They delayed, and as a result the story grew, fanned by the flames of uninformed hysteria. When Elon finally wrote his excellent blog post, he answered the unanswered questions and the negative stories virtually ceased. Water for fire. Sunlight instead of smoke.

I'm a shareholder. I have a car on order. I want Tesla to succeed in its mission to rid the world's roads of ICE cars. I'm not terribly impressed by Tesla's PR, and I don't know that I'd blame the PR people. Smart PR comes from the top down. If their only response to the fire is the customer letter in the blog post, it's insufficient. It strikes me as Tesla digging in its heels, saying, "look, all three fire victims still love Tesla and want their cars replaced asap!" This lack of response from Tesla makes them all the more vulnerable when the next shoe drops. And it will drop. There will be more fires. This should not be a surprise.

Some day, there will be a fatality in a Tesla. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Does Tesla have a PR plan in place for that eventuality so they can prevent that from becoming a crisis to? Will we learn about this story first from Tesla, or from the media?

Tesla need not write a blog post or press release each time there's an accident.

Yet this time is different. In his first blog post, Elon laid out stats on how Tesla's are 5 times less likely to suffer a fire. Those facts may have been true at the time, but not true now.

Tesla needs a more comprehensive response to the third fire. A manifesto on safety. If they do it right, they have an opportunity to inoculate the company against future fires, and future fatalities. They can reaffirm their believe that the Model S is the safest car on the road, and they can reaffirm their commitment to make it even safer, not just against fire, but from all potential risks. The path to industry-best safety is lined by hundreds of iterative improvements. Talk that talk and walk that walk.

The media is not the enemy. If Tesla plays their cards right, the media will become an ally in this ongoing battle for the truth. The truth is that Tesla is a better car company. I believe that, which is why I expect more from them. I believe every Tesla employee believes that too.

Captain_Zap | 10 novembre 2013

@jeanyvest

What do you do for your long dark winters when you can't see that far?

AmpedRealtor | 10 novembre 2013

What does hitting road debris have to do with driving nicely? Have you considered that you may not be able to avoid the debris because there are cars on either side of you? Did you think that maybe you can't see road debris at night until it's too late to do anything about it?

There is personal responsibility, then there is blaming the victim. One thing that appears common to both the US and Asia is peoples' inability to walk in another's shoes. How about some understanding and compassion for those who found themselves in harm's way?

Lessmog | 10 novembre 2013

Amped: Exactly! My close relatives were recently very nearly hit head-on by a car that swerved over on to the wrong side*; the car in front of them was. Bad mess, but nobody died on scene at least. The kid was driving, training for the license, and managed the situation quite expertly. But all traffic was closed for hours (narrow main road in the country, only two lanes, ambulance, rescue and salvage occupied all space; police was last on scene, and rude too).

Shtuff happens sometimes. Then it is good to have some margins on your side, in terms of time and distance as well as a protectively engineered vehicle. And skill and caution.

Drive defensively, folks. And choose a good car to drive.

* My guess is that the old man's old wife suddenly fell ill and distracted him; there was no obvious reason to lose control. But I wasn't there.