Tesla's enemies

Tesla's enemies

It is not paranoia folks: "They", the oil companies, including the Koch brothers, the Russian elite, the "Shorts", which I believe may be heavily financed by the oil companies, want to destroy Tesla. They are using all their resources, including the media, to discredit and ultimately defeat, which will not happen, Tesla. Even serious publications like the New York Times are allowing these groups, aka the elite, to use their platform to hurt Tesla. ( I am a digital subscriber to the New York Times and I seriously considering canceling my subscription) Even some of the posts on this forum are are aimed to bring down Tesla.

It is not about destroying Elon Musk. It is about greed, even if it means to critically damage the environment and the planet.

I personally believe that Elon Musk is not only a genius but a hero as well. He may be the only survivor who has fought the fossil fuel industry and the one most likely to defeat them. I see his fight not as an entrepreneur who wants to make money but somebody who is making a great contribution to society by saving the environment.

By making my reservation for the model 3, I am making a contribution as well. In fact, the reason I chose to have autopilot, knowing it is not going to be ready soon, was to help Tesla in a small way.

We need to help Musk and Tesla to succeed by supporting them in any way we can. Their enemies are the most powerful people on the planet. With our help, Tesla will become the most influential company in the world by improving our environment and making our lives more pleasant and technologically savvy.

CST | 28 agosto 2018


Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018


SamO | 28 agosto 2018


HighlandPony | 28 agosto 2018


dmastro | 28 agosto 2018

Wow...I just wanted to buy a new car. I didn't realize I was joining a movement to create a new world order. I feel a whole new weight on my shoulders now.

Relevance to the M3 specifically?

marcrose | 28 agosto 2018

The M3 is the car that hopefully will bring about the greatest change, basically since it is at the current lowest price point that Tesla can offer and promises to lower the bar even further when the 35k option arrives. The S and X are not super high volume cars that can have this impact and drive the narrative from ICE centered to EV, the 3 is that car.

jimglas | 28 agosto 2018

EAP is functional now. FSD is not.

jefjes | 28 agosto 2018

+1000 Dfdny444- That's another reason I don't complain if buying an accessory directly from Tesla may cost a bit more. I'm supporting the mission a few bucks at a time. I've started saving to add FSD and that extra $1k it will cost me for adding it after the fact will go to a good cause too. If and when Tesla takes reservation money for the Model Y, I'll probably throw some more their way for that also. Driving the future has confirmed that dreams do come true sometimes.

Goofy Runner | 28 agosto 2018

H.R. 6274 has been introduced to extend the EV Tax Credit beyond the 200,000 car limit. If you want to support Elon Musk and the use of EV, everyone here should contact their representatives to support this bill. There is a lot of resistance to using clean energy (ie look at the administration's support of coal).

drjeaton | 28 agosto 2018

I agree. I consistently (daily) see negative stories. It definitely rings of an organized campaign to bring down Tesla.

cascadiadesign | 28 agosto 2018

"They" are fighting a losing battle. It will be interesting to see how the anti-EV campaign spreads to other EV auto makers.

TranzNDance | 28 agosto 2018

While there are many greedy jerks who want to push for Tesla to fail, there are people who are just trying to survive and make a living. If Tesla succeeds, it will disrupt a lot of people's lives and livelihood. If someone is struggling to feed their family, the future of the environment is likely to fall in priority. Being able to care about the future is almost a privilege of well-to-do people.

I think we should be more sensitive to people who are legitimately struggling.

RadOne | 28 agosto 2018

I think the EV revolution is here and nothing is going to stop it. There will be lots of choices in the next couple of years alone. Toyota is planning on 10 models by 2020. I heard someone say on the news today that there could be 200 models from various companies by 2020. Koch brothers and anyone else mean nothing. No worries.

jordanrichard | 28 agosto 2018

TranzNDance, your "argument" could have been said when the ICE car replaced the horses and related jobs.

Also it is seriously overblown about the loss of jobs. My local service center is full of people. Where are these job losses? "Less service" on EVs doesn't necessarily mean less people. It just means more EVs can be serviced by the same number of employees.

leo33 | 28 agosto 2018

In general, the people who are legitimately struggling are not the same people who are pushing for EVs to fail.

RadOne | 28 agosto 2018

"H.R. 6274 has been introduced to extend the EV Tax Credit beyond the 200,000 car limit."

Even the playing field by no one gets a Tax Credit. The U.S. has a huge deficit already.

MyModelY | 28 agosto 2018

Why doesn't UBS disclose that it is massively shorting TSLA? Puts:
$446M in June
$402M in March
$682M last December
$534M September
$326M June
$501M March...
Verify here
Colin Langan of UBS is using the media to further their short position.

jimglas | 28 agosto 2018

@RadOne: Maybe stop subsidizing fossil fuels?

jordanrichard | 28 agosto 2018

RadOne +1. While I certainly didn't turn down the tax credit when I took delivery of my MS in 2014, from a financial standpoint, it makes no sense. The federal government makes money on each and every gallon of gas you buy, yet here it is they are giving you up to $7,500 tax credit to incentivize you to stop buying gas which generates revenue for the them.
That's akin to owning a grass mowing service and giving your customers money to buy their own lawn mowers.

Garyeop | 28 agosto 2018

40 gallons of gas per month per Tesla. 1/2 million cars means 20 million gallons of gas per month no longer sold. That is "just the tip". Other car makers are being forced to produce their electric version in order to compete. That is another 2 million cars or 80 million gallons of gas per month no longer sold. This is an extinction level event for many businesses. To think they would not use all leverage at hand to even slow this event is a bit naive.

RichardKJ | 28 agosto 2018

"That's akin to owning a grass mowing service and giving your customers money to buy their own lawn mowers."

I would think more like giving your customers money to install artificial turf.

SamO | 28 agosto 2018

Toyota will have 20 hybrids here. They have zero actual EVs. VW is likely going bankrupt. GM will likely be bankrupt. Again.

The bad actors who have been caught murdering the general public have less than 50% positive customer brand identity. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

TranzNDance | 28 agosto 2018

@jordanrichard, it seems as if you misunderstood me. I am not opposed to disruption because I'm an optimist who believes that there will be new and better opportunities arising from the carcasses of old industries. However, we need to convince the people who are directly affected or will be affected. Sure, you might see the loss of jobs as overblown with less service, but the people that need to be convinced are the ones who need the jobs to support their families. Your type of message would likely get drowned out in the shouting from the moneyed interests, unfortunately.

cascadiadesign | 28 agosto 2018

Another big disrupter will be autonomous trucks. The most popular job in the US is truck driver. I'm concerned that the majority of them won't do anything to prepare for a new job and expect some sort of government assistance.

TranzNDance | 28 agosto 2018

@cascadiadesign, I've read that there is actually a shortage of truck drivers. Autonomous trucks can help fill the gap and current drivers can leave the job as it happens naturally.

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018
Alex_SD | 28 agosto 2018


It depends on which side you're on:
- Trucking companies like electric trucks as they're cheaper to operate, low maintenance, much safer and no need to hire drivers (which, I assume, are the majority of their operation costs).
- Truck drivers are going to turn out in masses and become the new "coal miners" loosing their jobs.

There are 3.5 Million professional truck drivers in the US versus only about 50k miners. You can imagine the political tsunami coming our way...

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

Thus all who were employed making cigarettes, growing tobacco, shipping, etc. must have created a political nightmare when smoking was shown to cause heart disease, emphysema and lung cancer.
Protectionism always works out bad for everyone.

silverslim1 | 28 agosto 2018

Marketwatch is suggesting that Apple buy Tesla and get rid of Elon. For the record...if Elon goes, cancel my reservation.

cascadiadesign | 28 agosto 2018

I agree Alex. I don't think natural attrition rates will avoid this political tsunami. Once it becomes apparent that human operated diesel trucks can no longer compete, the change-over will be swift.

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

Marketwatch? Rupert Murdoch

TranzNDance | 28 agosto 2018

I see lots of construction in my area, and hence I see a lot of machinery. On one side, someone could see all the lost jobs that occurred because of power tools and large dirt-moving vehicles. The other side can see that there are other things that people can do when they're not busy hammering nails and digging and moving dirt with shovels.

leo33 | 28 agosto 2018

Mike83, maybe you are being sarcastic and this is your point, but it wasn't the tobacco production and shipping workers that were making a big political stink. It was the people the tobacco companies paid to produce disinformation and to lobby lawmakers.

cnistal1 | 28 agosto 2018

"We need to help Musk and Tesla to succeed by supporting them in any way we can."
I totally agree! For me the most effective techniques is simple, just share your M3 with everyone. Haven't had anyone yet that hasn't been impressed. I've given countless rides and always emphasize the cost savings (maintenance costs, fuel savings). Apparently, the general public still hasn't figured this out. Once they realize the cost savings, things will begin to change quickly.

Carl Thompson | 28 agosto 2018

Do you hear an echo in this chamber?

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

With M3 production exploding along with MX and MS sales beating all EV's put together and dealing with the BS Fud I would say Elon is doing great. Any COO's think they can do what Elon has done he will hire you? This is a GROWTH stock also making software, AI chips, Utility size and home size batteries, PV panels and tiles, launching a Semi and a few other tidbits car company analysts can't quite comprehend. Place your bets.
I did get some more shares today at 312. Very happy.

Effopec | 28 agosto 2018

There are definitely many industries that are either being greatly impacted or will be impacted by Tesla's success:

Oil & gas
Big automotive
UAW & Unions (both as Tesla is non-union and EVs generally take fewer assembly hrs to build)
Auto dealerships
Auto mechanics
Truck and service drivers (once FSD is available)
Service stations & convenience stores
Big power plants & utilities (from the solar side of the business)
People that just hate EM due to jealousy of success (same type that have hated Gates, Zuckerberg and others)

Take it down a level and you can add Asthma treatment and a host of other industries enabled by treating problems from vehicle pollution both in people and environmentally.

There is no doubt that we need to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels, and do it quickly. The economy will be disrupted during the change over, but this also provides great opportunity to those that offer the solutions, like Tesla.

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

And the FUDsters appear.

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

not the post above. posted at the same time i guess.

ab-tesla | 28 agosto 2018

There is no question that Elon Musk is the heart and sole of Tesla without him our cars will go the way of the Tucker and the Packard Roadster. The car business is brutal and cut throat. Given the history of those who have tried to innovate in the auto industry and failed it is truly amazing that we are lucky enough to be able to drive these fantastic electric automobiles. After this year and the phenomenal sales the Model 3 has had there is no question Big Oil and the Auto Industry will be coming for Tesla.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 28 agosto 2018

There are no 'internal problems or dysfunction' within Tesla. Had such phantom issues become 'mounting problems' then Tesla would have fallen under the weight of its own ineptitude, just as was predicted numerous times by $#0r+s, NaySayers, and Trolls over the years. Instead, the company has flourished and grown under the direction of Elon Musk, the very person that the company's detractors often accuse of being a 'distraction', while they themselves attempt to distract everyone they can from Tesla's actual accomplishments, including staying alive day after day, month after month, year after year -- when so many ANALysts proclaimed they were 'going out of business ... any day now ... it's just a matter of time' and then blew their tops when Elon suggested that maybe it would be cool if Tesla simply took their ball and went home because it isn't fun playing on an uneven playing field with liars who are allowed to lie all the time while calling you a liar... The need to dispel the machinations of FUDsters is a righteous calling meant to illuminate, not obfuscate. To point to actual causes and effects instead of invented innuendo and falsified 'facts'. The only 'self made' strife that Tesla endures comes from remaining steadfast and determined agsinst all comers when it comes to gollowing The MISSION outlined twelve years ago, the one that NaySayers have always denied was either possible or worthwhile, to accelerate the world's transition to renewable energy, rather than delay the eventual demise of fossil fuels in this singular world of ours. Tesla had been 'given' ZERO capital from their critics, yet those detractors always seek to TAKE money from Tesla, whether it be from earned government incentives, loaned funding from banks, invested income from partners, shareholders, or bondholders and by libelous actions meant to discourage potential Customers from buying Tesla's wares. Tesla has followed through' on much that NaySayers continually deny, and never find accrptable or complete. On the one hand they demand, "Why is this taking so long?" while on the other they complain, "Why doesn't Tesla just slow down? They're moving too fast!" Just like the idiotic adults that will tell an angst filled teenager that he is taking life too seriously in one moment, then tell the same kid he should 'grow up, and take responsibility' the next. Complete and total hypocritical poppycock from sunup to sundown. Just because YOU 'don't see' and YOU 'don't understand' doesn't mean that I am a 'blind follower' or that I 'don't know what I'm talking about'.

In mathematical terms, it isn't a 'zero sum game'. That is, some people are perfectly capable of understanding the singular equation...

2 + 2 = 4

But they can't figure out for the life of them that other equations come to the same result. They will deny forever that either...

1 + 3 = 4

or that...

3 + 1 = 4

...and that is the situation that ANALysts and $#0r+s find themselves in with Tesla. They come to the conclusion FIRST, then build a narrative around a formula that should not have been applied to the data presented. It never occurs to them to alter, change, or use another algorithm. Every time that they 'run the numbers' they feel it verifies their thesis of Tesla's imminent ruin, then it doesn't happen that way and they seek an excuse for their own failure. They just KNOW their algorithm is correct, and they KNOW they can count on it EVERY TIME... but Tesla still manages to survive. How? They presume that Tesla's investors are somehow 'cultists' who cannot be reasoned with... They claim that Elon Musk is a buffoon, a showman, a swindler, a shyster, a big time LIAR... They look, they seek, they search, and they find NO EVIDENCE of wrongdoing, yet they accuse Tesla of being 'crooked' somehow anyway... Even to the point of calling it a Ponzi Scheme sometimes, even though that definition doesn't fit at all.

A Ponzi is a pretty straightforward and obvious thing to uncover. Follow the money. When one investor gets money that originated from a newer investor and no funds are being spent to provide any product to any Customer ever, so there are no actual 'profits' for anyone and one day someone just 'disappears' with all the cash leaving everyone else in ruins? That's how you spot a Ponzi Scheme, because eventually, greed always pulls it all down. Every time.

Wait... Has that happened at Tesla? Ah. No. I'm sure it would have been in the news, right?

Other accusations amount to 'Bait and Switch' claims, which are equally idiotic. Because you always gave a choice, and the choices were clearly notated. You can buy what we have to offer, or you can wait to get what you want, or you can buy something else, or you can walk away without buying anything. Decide. Damn. Funny how so many are thoroughly confused by those options.

Tesla Critics lack objectivity because they spend too much time attempting to frame the narrative using baseless rhetoric that has no foundation in truth or reality, only innuendo and suspicion that is entirely devoid of supporting evidence. [FOUL] 'em.

Mike83: Luckily, any point attempted by a FUDster is readily smacked down in the name of Tesla, logic, and truth.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 28 agosto 2018

ab-tesla: Shortly after the initial success of the Tesla Model S, established German automobile manufacturers made an attempt to defend their turf in the name of ICE. They chose to believe their own propaganda, "There's no replacement for displacement.' It didn't work. They posted higher horsepower numbers and tuned their exhaust notes to be 'more exciting'. No one cared. All their sales have steadily dropped.

Big oil and the traditional automobile industry can 'come after' Tesla all they want. As long as they do it with ICE vehicles it won't matter. The introduction of the Tesla Model S P85D, released just 2-1/2 years after the original, delivered the first of several more smackdowns to ICE. The ultimate smackdown to the sales figures of premium ICE brands has come courtesy of the Tesla Model 3, because now even their 'bread & butter' offerings, the ones that 'keep the lights on', are getting demolished in sales. Far more even than they used to be trounced by 3-Series for decades on end. When they choose to go electric instead, Tesla wins! That's what this is all about. Because once the public at large truly learns the functional, practical, pragmatic difference between driving electric and driving ICE, they'll choose to abandon ICE in droves, never to return. No amount of fake, piped in, imaginary, synthetic engine noise will change their minds.

Mike83 | 28 agosto 2018

@ReD eXiLe ms us +1000
Well stated

carlk | 28 agosto 2018

Nice video put out by Zak and Jesse. Oil industry is a $5 trillion dollar a year business. Every week it can delay the EV transition it means $100 billion more revenue, enough to buy 2 Tesla at the current valuation. There is better example of David versus Goliath than this. Can't imagine anyone who would not do anything to protect such a huge interest.

carlk | 28 agosto 2018

---There is NO better example of David versus Goliath than this. ---

apodbdrs | 28 agosto 2018

Since TESLA doesn't advertise, and if own a TESLA and you like it then tell everyone how great it is! TESLA's enemies are out in force to attempt to kill TESLA! That means auto manufacturers, oil, media because they will lose money for Ads, dealerships, anti-enviormentist, etc. Do your part and help TESLA!

gballant4570 | 28 agosto 2018

The Mission is alive. The single greatest reason for the decision in my household to buy a Tesla. We don't need another car - I am going to get rid of two of them when the M3 arrives. Recycling trash and signing up for wind generated power supply only goes so far. The M3 will move us right into the arena of being an advocate by generating both discussion and desire. If I can domino just a few others toward EVs, I will do more than all the years of smaller contributions leading up to this point.

Applicability to the M3? The M3 was projected to be, and is proving to be the catalyst that catapults The Mission past the point of no return. It is very satisfying to me to be a part of it.

carlk | 29 agosto 2018

I was watching Jay Leno's Garage video on the new Roadster. A few hateful comments there including one says I will dump Jay Leno if he goes political. Huh liking a car is political? There are a lot of people who hate Tesla for political reasons too.

Shock | 29 agosto 2018

"It is not paranoia folks:"

Followed by a missive that any psychiatrist would be concerned moves into the realm of paranoid delusions.

Enemies, and even spies on the forum. But your leader is a hero.

I wonder if any of you have ever read a history book. The psychology you're embracing in this thread is low brow tribalism to a remarkable degree.

dalesmith1962 | 29 agosto 2018

Many are blowing it out of proportion, but there is a concerted effort to hamper Tesla’s efforts.