I guess Greta managed to strike a nerve! Good for her AND all of us!
Don't let the hate to destroy all of us.
She is an inspiration, and I totally support her activism. The haters will continue to misrepresent her courageous activism. Good on her and "F@$k the haters and Liers.
With this kind of youth hate won't have much of a battle ground. This youth is rethinking being on earth in very profound ways early!
Just listened to Ted talk from link. Absolutely riveting and inspiring. She is absolutely right AGW is an existential CRISIS and we have to treat it as a CRISIS. We need action, and we need it NOW. I for one am tired of the endless debate from a few AGW deniers that persist on these threads to spread their BS. They have no interest in changing their stupid and totally ignorant viewpoints on AGW. That is why I flag their posts and will continue to do so. Greta Thunberg should be an inspiration to everyone!
16 year human strikes a nerve is the news,.
It's refreshing to see an intelligent human being rise above the greed and corruption. There is a solution, just make it so.
It is great to see the future generations coming on board. We are doing this for them My concern is that the people who need to be influenced do not care about the children. One just has to witness the human rights abuses against young children at the Mexican border,
Guys and Gals, this is what you hoped for, don't you see?
Do you see?
Yes, I see! We need more Greta’s to emerge and show the grownups how urgent a CRISIS AGW is. Action required NOW.
>>> "This youth is rethinking being on earth in very profound ways early!"
While situational awareness in the youth of today of our environmental quandaries is as promising as it is helpful, running from a problem has never been any sort of a solution and only stands to exacerbate it due to avoidance.
Instead of devising ideas of how to escape/run away from it we should, instead, run at and tackle it head on!
That's what miss Thunberg is saying!
(For posterity's sake, 16-year-old Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg's TED talk)
I'd adopt her in an instant and would fly her over to speak before the House and Senate!
Now, for one and all
@one and all
Yes, AGW deniers are an annoyance and do a great disservice to those of us who're actually trying to enlighten the masses of the real and impending peril both we and future generations all stand to face.
But you all have to realize that they (these deniers) are just the byproduct of the propaganda campaign sponsored by the antiquated, embedded fossil fuel supporters and stalwart coal, gas and oil industrialists who see any action to better our personal health and the environment (in which we all must live and from which we all must take nourishment from) by mitigating and rectifying our industry leaders' abuse of our planet's resources as an attack on and threat to our continued economic integrity as a nation and, particularly, there's as a company.
The general consensus among the current ruling elite and fossil fuel magnates is that, instead of pursuing/undertaking corrective measures to remedy the onslaught that is only growing more and more compounded daily while reciprocally prolonging the ramifications of our inaction for future generations and any hope that they might have to achieve any curative measures to heal our environment and ourselves because (to quote acting EPA administrator and former coal lobbyist, Andrew Wheeler) we shouldn't "unilaterally disarm our economy when other economies around the world are not doing what they should be doing for the climate" (quote begins at @9:26 in the linked video below), we should just stay the course.
The only thing he was right about is that it is a "global problem", but his mentor (Trump) decided to opt out of a resolution that several countries all around the world signed on to (the Paris Climate Accord) to reduce their nation's carbon emissions because they felt it wasn't "a global solution" or, in particular, because several states (like coal producing West Virginia and oil producing Texas), along with several businesses (aka fossil fuel-based industries), said that the proposed emissions curbs would have a devastating impact on their economies'/their various companies' ability to remain viable entities.
The point that we all must take note of is that it isn't power/energy requirements for our standard of living, or any lack of available alternatives, or the absence of the necessary material resources, or even the lack of good ol' know-how...it's about our nations building their economies on the back of fossil fuel-based industries because they couldn't think of any way to monetize another form of energy creation at the time.
THIS is where climate change advocates need to focus their attention and efforts towards forming an undefeatable argument for the primacy of life over that of profit even though you'd naturally be inclined to think that the fact that being alive was a necessary prerequisite for obtaining any sort of profitability would be enough on its own, but such just isn't the case for those who're only interested in themselves and living the best life they can during their time on this Earth regardless of whatever means.
THAT's what we're dealing with, THAT mentality.
@Blue adept. I think it we need to educate people on the science of climate change. The Koch brothers and their allies have a vested interest in the medium term burning of fossil fuels. And they have an amazing propaganda machine. They have paid off the President and most of the Republican Party, some hasbeen scientists and off course their loyal followers. Some of the science they put out is able to fool most who do not have an understanding of the science. They also denigrate the media and get their followers to believe that the only good news comes from Fox, Breitbart and the Alex Jones’s etc. I have spent a few years on these forums trying to educate the troll deniers that show up here. I am never sure whether they are trolling to try disrupt information on climate change or truly bellieve the facts that they are spoonfed.
Alright, awhile back someone posted something about some so-called and somewhat famous scientist/professor type guy (who turned out to just be some flunky mouthpiece, IMHO) who made a living at being an "expert witness" for the ICE industry...
While he had raised several points of contention I, in favor of brevity, ignored the rest and only posted a comment that eviscerated his core contention.
However, if you'll remind me of the name of that thread (one of the 'climate change' ones I think) I'll go in there and will eviscerate each and EVERY one of his arguments with all of the appropriate factual references and authorities anyone would need (since they seem to be the main talking points the fossil fuel industry likes to use in their debates) and that should provide plenty of ammo for anyone interested in shutting those types up.
Greta is an inspiration! Thanks for sharing.
Anybody else getting error message like this when trying to post?
The requested URL "[no URL]", is invalid.
@blue-adept. Unfortunately many of the long running topics have been spammed and ultimately flagged away by our deniers and trolls. But trust me some are still around and will continue to recycle the set of points they have on a regular basis. I used to expend the effort but I found these guys to be pure trolls and never read or seemed to understand the points that contradicted their preconceived notions. But I would like to see you do this and hope you have better success than me
That's just it, their arguments are easy enough to defeat because they only have a handful that they regurgitate on replay over and over again like a broken record, so much so that it's become a monotonous, annoying drone of deceit and feigned ignorance that doesn't require any real effort or genius even, just a little common sense and the truth.
That's because they rely heavily (solely in fact) on lies, fraud and scaremongering (like the BS the fossil fuel industry mouthpieces used to "stay" President Obama's Clean Power Plan), that's why it requires little to no effort to refute and invalidate them because you need only tell the truth and avoid letting them distract you by drawing you into their world of fallacy and underhandedness with the fabricated alarmist triggers they use to deflect attention away from the actual reality of the situation which, really, is all that you need to point put to them.
Students and kids have much more power than they imagine, they should organize globally and start a perpetual strike, graduates should pledge to withdraw from the workforce until simple demands are met.
Demand as simple as, i.e. Tax All Pollution.
If Students put their generational contract on the table by withdrawing from that contract, it puts the status quo at risk immediately, it impacts future economic growth, pension stability and workforce supply.
The economy looks at them as a RESOURCE, not as a voices or voters, cutting off that resource would be heard loud and clear.
This approach would work, no Koch bros or MSM could spin it. Laws would be implemented quickly as politicians understand the language of money.
This is the only way out I can imagine to actually work and force change at last.
@El Mirio, Yes, totally agree. My hope is that the youth movement will shake up the establishment and force action. I find Greta's actions incredibly inspiring and there is growing evidence that youth actions are starting to take off through our beleaguered planet.
From Greta's Twitter account: "Over 10 000 schoolchildren on strike today in The Hague! And tens of thousands in Belgium! School strike tomorrow as usual. #climatestrike #fridaysforfuture #schoolstrike4climate pic.twitter.com/P5T7yg2…
2 hours ago · Twitter"
Greta gets it for sure. Hopefully millions of alarm clocks go off, us old farts aren´t being robbed.
@El Mirio: "Tax all pollution" - SO Simple! and so powerful and effective! How could anyone argue that we should allow pollution? Pollution is such a better word than "carbon emissions" for making a visceral impact.
'put' = out
The children are already doing all that they can on several fronts as they've realized not only that they HAVE to fight for their and their children's futures, but also that they have to manifest the agency to realize that their futures ARE worth fighting for.
When you think about it perhaps the most poignant aspect of this whole thing is the realization that the youth having to come forward and speak out on this issue is a condemnation of all of the adults in that it is inherently the cultural prerequisite that the grownups do the fighting for the children, not the other way around, yet we seem to have dropped the ball in this regard, unfortunately.
We should all be ashamed to have allowed the matter to get so out of hand that our children found themselves forced to come forward and prematurely take on the mantle of adulthood and be the adults in the room when they should be outside playing ball, or contemplating why the skies are blue, or riding their bicycles around the neighborhood, or indulging in their latest imaginary adventure, or masquerading as their latest favorite superhero, or just damn near anything other than grownup stuff like what Greta is doing or what these kids are doing:
Because we, the so-called "grownups", dropped the ball.
@El Mirio & @rooneyclan2
'Taxing all pollution' is NOT the way forward and would only amount to a concession to pollution emitters, potentially enabling them to emit even MORE pollution as you'd still be allowing them, only now it'd be permissible and the "tax" would likely just be subsidized by the government and would take on the form of increased taxes for us to compensate the government coffers for the expenditure so it wouldn't affect their, the coal/oil/gas industry's bottom line in the least bit, only contribute to the increased pollution of our planet.
'STOP ALL POLLUTION' is the more appropriate and effective demand.
"put" = out as in..."which, really, is all that you need to point OUT to them."
Totally agree it is a disgrace that our globe depends on our children to battle for the future!
"'STOP ALL POLLUTION' is the more appropriate and effective demand."
Not sure if we live on the same rock, how would this even have the closest chance to get thru? Our society is furthest from an ability to be in symbiotic relation ship with resources, calling for it at this stage is counter productive.
Taxing pollution would obviously need to be revenue neutral, the penalty on pollution needs to be real, no back doors.
I wish them success.
Because it amounts to little more than a concession that would allow them to continue operations as is if not exacerbate the situation by enabling them to emit even MORE pollution since now they've a set guideline of just how much they'll have to pay for the emission of 'X' amount of pollution.
I can see it now...Someone from a neighboring powerplant community happens to notice the increased darkening of the sky and decides to question the plant about the obvious increase in admissions and the only excuse they're giving is 'they say it's legal because we're paying taxes for it."
Not a favorable outcome at all as you'd be incentivizing them by providing them with an "out"...
Plus, we're more ready than many would care to have known which is why you don;t see much press about it.
>>> "I wish them success."
As do I, afterall, they're fighting for their futures, that is, their right to actually have a future.
You are thinking small scale taxes which companies could shrug off as biz expenses, i´m talking big scale taxes which would transition companies to environmentally sustainable production.
Above some samples where a waste tax did reduce pollution.
Taxing pollution/waste does encourage companies such as above to avoid waste all together.
"Plus, we're more ready than many would care to have known which is why you don;t see much press about it."
"As do I, afterall, they're fighting for their futures, that is, their right to actually have a future."
Agree with your points that AGW has now come front and center as an issue that must be addressed, and that as Greta says so eloquently, we need to treat it like the CRISIS it absolutely is. I think we need fundamental change, and elimination of all the fossil fuel subsidies that promote continued use of this planet killing energy source. I find it incredibly sad and also inspiring to see young people stepping forward to assume the mantle of leadership on this incredibly important issue, because adults have shown themselves incapable of providing the necessary leadership. I was very disappointed in Obama for waiting until his last year in office to finally start to act on AGW. He should have made it a priority during his first year in office. Of course he at least acknowledged the seriousness of AGW, but our political process is so very flawed in enacting meaningful legislation to aggressively make a difference. Nothing to be said about the current traitorous and AGW idiot facts challenged POTUS.
I believe in taking personal responsibility and building a movement from the bottom up as one way of making change happen. I live in a solar + battery powered home and drive only EV's (2 Tesla's), and generated 252 percent of our energy needs last year, exporting 60 percent of our solar energy back to grid for others to use. People are starting to take notice of our actions and adding solar panels and EVs where I live in Edmonds, WA. It is not fast enough for me, but something is happening, and maybe it will accelerate. The New Green Deal may also be a catalyst for change. We have to make stopping all pollution a priority NOW!
I have to say that I like ALL of those and find the "Loop" supply replenishment model interesting (will look more into for future reference), but as I've been trying to explain I'm concerned that entrenched American fossil fuel industry would see a use "tax" as more of a subsidy than anything else, albeit one that they'd somehow mange to have the government cover for them as they've done time and time again in the past, which will only result in having those expenses passed onto the consumer in the form of increased tax rates (like we're seeing now).
I can imagine a conversation going something like...
Concerned citizen: 'Hey! You seem to be producing a helluva lot more pollution from your plant lately, any reason why?'
Fossil-fuelie: Well, we're paying for it with a new 'pollution tax' so now we can make as much of it as we want as long as we continue to pay!'
Incredulous? Perhaps. Unconscionable? To you or I, maybe, but I dare say that you haven't dealt with those types on a one-on-one basis before and aren't aware of just how belligerent or asinine or oblivious or self-centered they truly are.
That is why I'm encouraging people to attack them head-on not with any amount of leeway, but with absolute elimination of ALL fossil-fuel and even nuclear-based extraction or energy production/generation as the extensive and prolonged harm its' use causes far outweighs whatever perceived benefit.
Granted, talking about remedial methodologies or replacement technologies isn't enough as it is all too often drowned out by the clamorous raucous of the fossil-fuel loyalists/those too brainwashed to know any better, that is why people need to SEE actual real-world examples of renewable energy infrastructure/installations and be shown the benefits you can reap from forms of environmentally safe energy production/storage.
Please keep spreading the word, maybe even consider hosting little parties where you'd have the opportunity to work into the conversation the cost v savings benefits of switching to renewable power generation and how truly liberating it is to know you'll never have to pay for gas or for a utility bill ever again!
Not to mention all while removing just that much more pollution from the atmosphere and environment, making the air easier to breath, the water cleaner to drink, and environment-fed foodstuffs fresher to eat!
The TRUTH needs to be gotten out there to silence all of the naysayers and deniers!
@blue adept you are making my point, a catch phrase in politics shouldn't take that long to explain.
@blue adept, I showcase our home on the NW Ecobuilding Guild's Green Homes Tour every spring, and also had our home featured on the National Solar tour last October. I live on an InterUrban Trail with lots of walkers, runners, bikers and look for opportunities to answer any/all questions about our home and especially how the economics can save them money. With the weatherization repairs to our home, our annual electric bill last year was only $180 for the entire year. Our relatively expensive solar panels purchased/installed in 2012 will be entirely paid off this year, and we will then own our own micro-energy grid. With the two Powerwall-2 batteries we are fully self sufficient 9 months of the year, although still tied to grid, as we need to draw energy from November-February with the lower solar production. We also have three veggie gardens, and a 4,600 gallon cistern to capture/reuse the rainwater off our roof, which has dramatically reduced our water use during the growing season, relying entirely on our cistern water for all our outdoor watering needs. Our home was certified as being a Net Zero Building (NZB) by the International Living Future Institute (https://living-future.org/lbc/case-studies/sustainable-dreams/). I look for opportunities to spread the word to anyone willing to listen.
I watched a riveting interview with Dahr Jamail today on Democracy Now (https://www.democracynow.org/2019/2/12/the_end_of_ice_dahr_jamail), which focused on his new book entitled: “The End of Ice: Bearing Witness and Finding Meaning in the Path of Climate Disruption.” and he provides a sobering assessment of Climate Disruption. He has been writing about Climate Disruption for years now with many articles on Truthout.org, which are worth checking out. We absolutely need to treat Climate Disruption like the CRISIS it is. The future habitability of this planet is at stake!!!
Don't get me wrong, what Europe is doing to mitigate pollution is as inspiring as it is necessary, afterall, they've been producing pollution a helluva lot longer than America has and have, as a result, embraced the severity of the situation out of necessity and adopted the mindset as a result.
And then there's America...The land of excess, extravagance, and rampant denial of the seriousness of any number of situations that places profit over commonsense.
Granted, if America had the additional decades of cultural development and resultant retrospection that Europe has then it's likely that we wouldn't be having this conversation because Americans would already know better, but they haven't and they don't, unfortunately.
Ah, so then I'm preacher to the choir...I'll stop.
BTW, are you using a typical irrigation system or a "misting" system for your veggie garden?
Neither, we access the below ground cistern water tanks with electric pump (Grundfos Pump (110V)) using two hose bibs located at north and south end of house with conventional garden hoses.
My point is that conveying a message with a slogan needs to have a quality of IMMEDIATE understanding.
USA never had a true left movement, it's about time they do, not because the left is right, but because it recalibrate all parties.
And Europe does plenty of shitty things, they hide it better because it can make national news faster, no other reason.
"preacher" = preaching
A misting and/or "boom" (for field and/or plot) irrigation system would both dramatically decrease water usage and increase overall plant hydration and fertilization (plants also 'drink' through their leaves and stems), as well as overall crop yields as it provides graduated overall plant saturation with less water usage as opposed to a one time dousing.
Also, you can make your own solar powered water heater (with a couple tanks, copper tubing, insulation and some pressure gauges for metering and volume regulation) that would heat the water (via solar exposure) which would allow you to heat your home through the process of radiant heating as well as provide for all of your hot water needs (not to mention provide an additional level of purification), just like a gas-fired or electric-powered water heater would do, which could further reduce your energy consumption and reduce your bills.
Just a suggestion or two.
I didn't know that I was participating in any sort of "branding" exercise, only stating the obvious/necessary/facts.
And, yes, all countries each have their own skeletons best kept in the closet.
Apropos of the courageous activism by Greta and other youth throughout the World, this WUMO cartoon today is totally appropriate in highlighting the intelligence of these young activists in highlighting the obvious facts about AGW.
Facebook censored school strikes, restored it after flood of complaints.
Love this, they found status quo kryptonite.
"Mess with our Planet & we`ll mess with your Pensions!"https://twitter.com/StrikeClimate/status/1093369785679732736
Thanks @El Mirio, great to see the youth activism. I feel the movement building to demand action from our unresponsive politicians and hopefully wakeup the masses not paying attention. Time for action.