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New Model S and X get longer range and faster charging

New Model S and X get longer range and faster charging

Darthamerica | 23 aprile 2019

It’s awesome! I’m really glad to know I can get ludicrous for free. Now I don’t feel bad for holding out on Model P3D. My only hesitation is that I think an interior refresh is pending, I don’t see carbon fiber and the pano roof is still gone for MS. That probably pushed me into getting a MX this time. Get the X or stretch this P90D out a little longer, decisions...hmmm

sschaem | 23 aprile 2019

Does Tesla publish its buy back rate for trade ins ?

blue adept | 24 aprile 2019

They're also re-introducing a lower entry price for Model S and Model X by bringing back their Standard Range option complete with the new drivetrain and suspension updates to offer more so frugal buyers more bang for their buck!

blue adept | 24 aprile 2019

@sschaem

I don't think it's possible or even practical to post specific buy back rates inasmuch as a car's depreciated value can only be assessed AFTER an inspection, so publishing potentialities would likely prove troublesome from a purely legal point of view and amount to an unreasonable expectation from Tesla.

reed_lewis | 24 aprile 2019

And the S/X include free Auto Pilot like the 3.

MyMXRed | 24 aprile 2019

The trade in value will not be available until inspected and i would not expect any dearness from Tesla sales team on this. Its a double loss... less trade in and price difference with the new X.

darron | 24 aprile 2019

Does anyone know how to tell if a car that was in production before the announcement (and still is) has the upgraded stuff? Maybe a VIN number after which the upgrades apply?

TeslaTap.com | 24 aprile 2019

The VIN only shows the year, and is mostly worthless for knowing what the car has. If your S/X was in production this month, it's likely to have HW3 AP electronics at a minimum as that went into production last month. Hard to say on the other goodies.

Still you can use our VIN decoder to show a few things: https://teslatap.com/vin-decoder/

JustSaying | 24 aprile 2019

motortrend. com/cars/tesla/model-s/2019/exclusive-2019-tesla-model-s-review/

sschaem | 24 aprile 2019

I was trying to see if it was worth my time contacting Tesla for a trade in.

My X got just about 2000 miles, and it still has one last appointment to fix some delivery defects.
(My MCU never worked and was replaced mid February)

Now, I dont care so much about all the updates, beside the dynamic suspension.
This was something I knew about when I got the car, but it was a comprise I was willing to make, specially considering that Tesla looked oppose to offer dynamic air suspension on its vehicles.

So I dont know why after 7 years they finally decided to do it. But I would love to have it :)

bp | 25 aprile 2019

For 100D owners, the free Ludicrous offer doesn't provide much value, because ordering a new Performance/Ludicrous model ends up with only around 15 more miles of rated range - not the additional 40 miles of range possible going from 100D to the new LR.

If Tesla really wanted to get more current S/X owners to buy new vehicles, they should focus on incentives for purchase either the SR or LR models - such as transferring FUSC & FSD activation over to the new vehicle.

While this year's price decreases (including making AP standard) have reduced the price of a new S or X, that price decrease also shrank the resale price for the trade-in S/X, coupled with losing FUSC and the expiring US tax credit, it's going to take more than "free Ludicrous" to convince current S/X owners to upgrade this quarter...

darron | 25 aprile 2019

@bp In my opinion the best way to help existing owners would simply be to offer direct discounts to the purchase price, but that seems to be against their "no deals" thing. Although I'm not sure how that's really different from free options.

Alternatively, they could offer the best trade-in value they can. This is easy to adjust to exactly what they can afford to offer. Why fool around with $20K-if-you-buy-this, $7K-if-you-buy-that, etc... just put whatever amount they want to offer into the trade in value.

darron | 25 aprile 2019

Forgot to say... obviously they're trying to push people to the performance versions. I'm not really expecting anything, as the goal is probably more about converting sales to performance versions than helping existing owners.

Dramsey | 25 aprile 2019

@ darron ,

The purchase price of a new Model S_is_ discounted. Let's look at some numbers.

Two years ago my 2016 S90D had an MSRP of $115,700. Looking at my laminated window sticker (you didn't have your window sticker laminated? You must not love your car!), I see I paid:

$2,500 for premium seats
$2,000 for the panoramic glass roof
$3,500 for the premium upgrades package
$2,500 for the ultra high fidelity sound package
$2,500 for smart air suspension
$8,000 for enhanced autopilot and FSD

...and so on. This got me a very nice car with 294 miles of rated range.

I see in the configurator for the current Model S that with the exception of FSD, everything I paid extra for in my car is now standard equipment.

If I order the long range Model S and pay extra for the fancy paint and FSD, it comes in $19,700 cheaper than my car at an MSRP of $96,000.

And it's quicker.
And it has 76 more miles of range.

If anything I should be mad at Tesla for dramatically reducing the resale value of my car. But I don't care, because I've liked driving it so much for the last two years.

darron | 25 aprile 2019

@Dramsey Yeah, but if the goal is to help previous owners / early adopters feel like they're appreciated and compensate somewhat for resale value hits through some kind of offers... well, you can't exactly count something that's available to everyone as part of that.

Personally, I mostly understand that Tesla can't afford to give significant compensation to existing customers... well, partially because it's not like the existing owners were going to give Tesla more money if the price went the other way. Early adopters were obviously critical to Tesla's mission, but the idea of a running obligation to compensate all previous owners for any improvement they make in the car or price is ridiculous.

That said...

I'm just trying to figure out if the X that was in production this week and now says "built" as of today has the upgrades or not. I'd assume so, but you never know. I'd really hate to get one of the very last cars before the upgrade and have my resale drop substantially before I even receive the car. That's a bit hard to swallow.

I made a mistake and put "May" delivery initially (back in March) because I was impatient. I was really just trying to delay because our lease on the car this replaces is up in July. I've been trying to change that to June since 4/5 with half a dozen emails and calls. I was told on 4/6 I could delay, but nothing happened and now this car is built and prepping for delivery. :/

If it's got the upgrades, on the other hand... I'll feel somewhat better about getting the car earlier than I intended.

Dramsey | 25 aprile 2019

@darron,

"I'd really hate to get one of the very last cars before the upgrade and have my resale drop substantially before I even receive the car. That's a bit hard to swallow."

Yeah, good luck, man. I feel your pain. _Someone_ is going to be in the situation where they got one of the last pre-upgrade cars, and it might be you...

NKYTA | 25 aprile 2019

@Dramsey, well clearly my P85 2012 S is not going to bring in waves of $$$$$ offers (even though she is well cared for). So we got a 2018 3 for my wife, best of both worlds as NKYTA still has FUSCing.

I remember the good old days of missing out on Parking Sensors. You probably do, too. ;-)

SO | 25 aprile 2019

The day I received my S90D, the 100D came out for the same price. It sucks about losing the difference but it is what it is. Still enjoy driving my car.

EVRider | 26 aprile 2019

It looks like existing Model S/X cars with the 100kWh battery will also be getting faster supercharging via software updates: https://electrek.co/2019/04/26/tesla-unlocks-more-power-supercharger-150kw

jimglas | 26 aprile 2019

@EVRider: That is the case with both cars after 2019.12.1 download last night

TeslaTap.com | 26 aprile 2019

The four year resale value is virtually unaffected by new pricing and features. If you buy a car to sell it a few weeks later, you're going to take a haircut with any car from any maker - even if they make zero changes.

MyMXRed | 26 aprile 2019

Reading through... Tesla is here to make money. The existing owners to sell anything less than 3-4 years is definitely take a hit. Time to wait and enjoy the purchase and wait for few more years to upgrade. Right now and bargains its going to deaf years at Tesla. Touchwood, i am enjoying my 2018 X but from a marketing perspective i am really disappointed !!!

TeslaTap.com | 26 aprile 2019

@MyMXRed - Which would you be more disappointed with:

1) Tesla makes no improvements and other automakers surpass Tesla causing Tesla to go out of business.

2) Tesla makes major improvements keeping it far ahead of others, continuing to make Tesla one of the most desirable vehicles made?

kwen197 | 26 aprile 2019

Tesla sales for all models have tanked. This is probably due the very bad publicity it has received and a sales and service organization that has earned a negative reputation.

I do not think this new carrot for existing customers, but may improve sales to new customers.

I personally paid for two Autopilots and FSD's and they have continually broken there delivery promises. Now they are promising end of this year.

To get existing customers to upgrade they have to win them back by always meeting their promises.

I am on my 3rd. 2014 S85; 2015 S85D and 2016 S90D so I have been burnt enough.

Best regards to all.

NKYTA | 26 aprile 2019

“kwen197 | April 26, 2019
Tesla sales for all models have tanked. This is probably due the very bad publicity it has received and a sales and service organization that has earned a negative reputation.”

Citation please.

Darthamerica | 26 aprile 2019

+1 @SO... same story, P90D.

modelxmaybe | 26 aprile 2019

Does anyone know if this years new Model X's are still eligible for the Schedule 179 $25,000 deduction? I noticed that the weight has dropped to about 5500 pounds, isnt the minimum 6000?

TeslaTap.com | 27 aprile 2019

@kwen197 - Sales appear just fine. You may be less bitter if you realize Tesla rarely makes promises, but sets goals. Just because some form post changes those goals into promises, doesn't make it a promise.
Yes those goals are not always met, but that's the nature of being on the technological bleeding edge. It's not like anyone else has competitive products or are delivering the features Tesla has delivered already.

You can choose to be upset on imaginary promises or go with the flow and still have fun with the most advanced car made that keeps getting new features. With your 3rd S, you must like something about it to keep buying them. If on the other hand, you now hate Tesla and your cars, I suggest selling the cars and moving onto some other vehicle. Life is too short to live with something you hate. I hear Audi has may sell the E-tron (which keeps getting delayed as they can't figure out how to compete with Tesla).

Yodrak. | 27 aprile 2019

"Tesla sales for all models have tanked."

I think "tanked" is a misleading term, although Tesla sales certainly were down. But then sales for all manufacturers except Honda and Hyundai were down in the 1st quarter and are expected to stay that way for the rest of the year. In part this is due to the continuing trend away from sedans to SUVs and trucks, and Tesla's only SUV is its highest priced model, out of range for most buyers, which doesn't help.

I'm wondering if the US market for EVs is becoming saturated. What percentage of people, in the USA, who would seriously consider buying an EV have bought one? I don't have an answer, not even a speculative answer, just the question.

Madatgascar | 27 aprile 2019

Reasons for drop in S/X sales:
1) Expiration of full tax credit brought demand forward (compensating price cuts don’t help right away if most people who were planning to buy a Tesla bought earlier to avoid the loss of the tax credit)
2) Model 3 cannibalizes S (and Model 3 had production and delivery issues)
3) First quarter is always slow, all auto sales down
4) Tesla service is starting to get a bad rap
5) 4Q18 massive push to empty the pipeline of cars in transit
6) Rumors of a refresh have people waiting

So.... Assuming a refresh is in the works, all these are one-time setbacks, except (4). Tesla needs to expand their service footprint and things should be OK.

TeslaTap.com | 27 aprile 2019

@Madatgascar - good list.

4) Many have great Tesla service, but there can always be improvement. Still ar better than most dealers. Doubt service rap (good or bad)has any effect to sales. Likely 90+% of new owners never even consider it.

6) Refresh done and now available for S/X.

Actually, I expect the #1 reason S/X sales dropped was the elimination of standard range versions, which limits the affordability to many potential customers. Now that Standard range with the refresh is back, many more customers can afford an S/X that might not have otherwise.

Tesla also goosed the high end a bit, offering a free Ludicrous upgrade to existing S/X customers. Might sway some owners who were sitting on the fence about upgrading from an older S/X.

Yodrak. | 27 aprile 2019

"I expect the #1 reason S/X sales dropped was the elimination of standard range versions, which limits the affordability to many potential customers. Now that Standard range with the refresh is back, many more customers can afford an S/X that might not have otherwise."

I agree with this.

darron | 27 aprile 2019

@Madatgascar That was a great list. Tesla could have saved some pain if they simply enumerated a list like that on the earnings call.

It's not just service... although service is really long term the most important. I can't say I'm very happy with the sales effort at all:

1) Placed the initial order for an X100D on 3/13 to catch the price before it changed, for May delivery. (Should have put June, but I was impatient... we've waited many years)
2) Had a guy from the local gallery tell me there was an exact match to my car in inventory for $3000 less, asked if we wanted that. $3000 is worth paying for two cars for a while (existing car lease is up in July)... so we said yes.
3) I had to notice looking at the spec sheet of the inventory vehicle that the price was only $600 less. Sales guy confirmed... said he must have done the math wrong. (Possibly an honest mistake, but probably just the extremely common sleazy car dealer tactic I was surprised to see from Tesla) We told them if they can't honor what he said they need to take the car off and put us back on a factory build.
4) We spend a few very nervous days as the inventory car does not get removed and the price increase date approached. Finally, on 3/22 we get a factory build back on the reservation at the correct price.
5) On 4/5, we decide that May is too early and we really do need to shift the delivery to June. I send an email asking if we can delay the car.
6) I get a response on 4/6, saying we can delay until June or cancel.
7) We're out of town on vacation, so I respond on 4/10 saying we definitely want to delay until June.
8) I don't get any response, so I re-send the request to delay on 4/18. Still no response.
9) On 4/22, I notice there's a new VIN assigned to my reservation and the car is in production. I call Tesla directly, they say they put in a request to remove the VIN from the reservation and it should take effect in a couple days.
10) On 4/25 I call back, as the VIN is still on my account marked for production. The lady on the phone says she'll send an email to the same people who haven't responded, but she'll include their manager who she knows "is really on top of things".
11) Minutes after the call, the VIN on my account state goes from in production to built and on route.
12) It's 4/27, and there's been no response or feedback from anyone local at all.

I think I should be cut a little slack on the requesting a delay as I sent confirmation we wanted to delay twice before the car entered production and they didn't act on it... AND they had already screwed up my order in a suspicious way once.

We're on the team, we've had significant stock for a LONG time now. We just haven't owned a car.

It doesn't have to be this hard. They've most certainly got good software talent to fix their systems, and they've had enough time to do something about it. They just aren't making it a priority. They might say they are, maybe even think they are... but no. Task due dates and auto-escalation if due dates are missed aren't hard to do. It does take people to back that up, but that's where you get into deciding what's a priority. With how advanced the cars are, I shouldn't be left to hoping people got an email or wondering why something hasn't happened when they said it would on the sales side.

I think the reservation page (or just your account in general somewhere) should have a support ticket interface somewhere, showing the status of everything that's going on.

darron | 27 aprile 2019

Wow, that comment was longer than I thought. This little comment box makes it easy to not notice how much you wrote. Sorry for the TLDR, all.

Madatgascar | 27 aprile 2019

@darron - sorry to hear that! I have always had excellent service, and haven’t needed any on the last two cars, but have been hearing more of this lately.

@TT, of course, how could I miss that? Add #7 - should have been #1. The refresh I was talking about was an interior and maybe exterior refresh, which I think is still in the works and has me waiting. Free Ludicrous def got my attention though!

Yodrak. | 27 aprile 2019

"We're on the team, we've had significant stock for a LONG time now. ... I think I should be cut a little slack on the requesting a delay as I sent confirmation we wanted to delay twice before the car entered production and they didn't act on it... "

Without question, you are an important enough person that production schedules should be adjusted to accommodate a high priority customer like you.

"they had already screwed up my order in a suspicious way once."

OK, this makes me curious. They not only screwed up your order, but they did it in a suspicious way. Please elaborate.

Uncle Paul | 27 aprile 2019

Model X is still eligible for the Section 179 tax deduction and accellerated depreciation for the full amount. The 6000 lbs requirement is for the Gross Vehicle weight. That is the weigh of the car PLUS the weight the car can carry in passengers and cargo.

darron | 28 aprile 2019

@yodrak I've mentioned stock here, never to Tesla. I admit i'm whining a little here, but I wouldnt do that. The main reason I've persisted is because we asked and they said it was possible. If they simply said no, that'd be different. If they offered some reason it was no longer possible, that's be different. Not responding and maybe hoping the problem goes away is not an acceptable level of service, especially for a 100K+ car.

As for suspicious screw up, surely claiming an inventory car is $3000 off when in fact it's $600 sounds like literally every single traditional car company purchase experience I've had. It's looks very much like he was desperate to move inventory for the local gallery's numbers and hoped it would be too late or we would be too invested when it came out. Sure, could be an honest mistake, too. The fact that bad math is one of the top tricks for traditional car salesman makes it suspicious.

darron | 28 aprile 2019

@yodrak let me restate the stock thing because it's bothering me what it might look like. The point of the comment was not "I'm a stockholder I deserve special treatment" but "I'm invested in Tesla and want them to succeed." The context being I was being critical of Tesla and didn't want to appear like someone just attacking Tesla just to attack Tesla. There's too much of that.

jimglas | 28 aprile 2019

@UnclePaul: I believe the accelerated depreciation was for 2018 only. The MX is still eligible for the Section 179 deduction, but it will now be over 5 years

jimglas | 28 aprile 2019

@UnclePaul: I believe the accelerated depreciation was for 2018 only. The MX is still eligible for the Section 179 deduction, but it will now be over 5 years

jimglas | 28 aprile 2019

@UnclePaul: I believe the accelerated depreciation was for 2018 only. The MX is still eligible for the Section 179 deduction, but it will now be over 5 years

Yodrak. | 28 aprile 2019

darron, thanks for the additional explanation, I understand what you're wanting to tell us better now.

sschaem | 28 aprile 2019

Here is a trade in / upgrade example to see the viability of the process:

Late November 2018 model X P100DL with 2400 miles with purchase price of $175K (after tax) will trade in for $99K (Tesla trade in price, but looking at their inventory it seem way under priced, so Tesla will resell the car for much more)

Factoring the $20k price drop + the $20k free upgrade + the tax credits, this represent a $21k trade in cost.

Making the car $197K in the end (175K 2018 + 131K 2019 - 99K trade in - 7K 2018 tax credit - 3K 2019 tax credit)

In my case I would also give up my free lifetime supercharging (cant be transferred)

So in this particular case its interesting because short term its not really worth it. But long term (resell) value it might actually make sense.

Because in 5 years would expect the 2019 to have a ~10k higher resell value then a 2018

sschaem | 28 aprile 2019

Update, I was told that the only way to get an accurate trade in value was to put a $2500 deposit.

So after placing an order, it seem Tesla offer $95,800 for a late 2018 P100DL fully loaded (FSD, 22" wheels, 6 seat interior) with 2400 miles. So from late November to late April the car lost about $80,000 in value.

This might be an new automotive record in depreciation ?

I will need to hunt Tesla down next week to get my deposit back, this $80,000 devaluation in less then 5 month and 2400 miles make it impossible to warrant a trade in.

TeslaTap.com | 28 aprile 2019

@sschaem - I think anyone is crazy to do any tradein of any brand during the first two years. Huge devaluation, and not just Tesla. The more expensive the vehicle (with a few exceptions for rare cars), the faster the depreciation. Rolls Royce has always had very high devaluations, but doesn't mean the cars are not good. If you plan to buy a car for a few months, you're going to get pounded severely. Cars are rarely a good investment - although with Tesla RoboTaxis, that might change in the next two years.

sschaem | 28 aprile 2019

My plan is to keep the car 10+ years, and really never intended on selling it. The range, charging speed, top speed, acceleration, interior etc.. is perfect for me, so even if Tesla make a 600 miles, 200mph, 1.9 sec 0-60 Model X I wouldn't be tempted.

But.... the suspension :) I really never imagined that Tesla would switched to dynamic after all those years.

Its not a massive deal on highways, but city driving, specially low speed when you have speed bumps, potholes, uneven pavement... its not a comfortable ride for the passengers. The ride is incredibly stiff at low speed.

Now, I havent test driven the new updated suspension. So its possible that its not much better , then this whole trade in things is moot.

Anyways, I really wanted to see if I could get the updated suspension via a trade in since the P100DL dropped by $20k in price and Tesla offer the ludicrous update for free. Thats when I saw that upgrade would still cost about $35k . (For that price I can get a Model 3 Standard range ...)

owlegrad2 | 28 aprile 2019

"So after placing an order, it seem Tesla offer $95,800 for a late 2018 P100DL fully loaded (FSD, 22" wheels, 6 seat interior) with 2400 miles. So from late November to late April the car lost about $80,000 in value."

Your car was $175,800 and you are worried about a measly 35k?

darron | 29 aprile 2019

Has anyone actually received an X with the updates yet? If so, what's the VIN? :)