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Autopilot for All?

Autopilot for All?

So, it appears all Model 3s now have Autopilot included in the base model. What financial harm would there be for Tesla to enable Autopilot in all existing cars for free? If it enhances safety as much as Tesla strongly portends, then isn't there a moral imperative for them to deploy it en masse for free? ......especially now that it is included in all models as part of the base pricing?

lilbean | 14 luglio 2019

Wow

hokiegir1 | 14 luglio 2019

You do realize base prices were increased to accommodate including base AP, so it's not exactly "free," right?

vmulla | 14 luglio 2019

@hokiegir1,
I've stopped paying attention to the prices, but I thought the prices decreased based on the posts here.

hokiegir1 | 14 luglio 2019

@vmulla - It's a mixed bag on that, I think. I do know the base model you can order is not 35k.... It's 39,900 on the web...and I think you can do the "off menu" SR for 37,900. Other prices might be lower than when you and I bought, but higher than before it was included. I didn't track that closely.

Justin.R.Tipton | 14 luglio 2019

I think Tesla also has a moral imperative to make enough money to continue their mission, employee people, etc, etc.

EVRider | 14 luglio 2019

There’s the financial harm of losing revenue from selling AP to owners who don’t have it.

Kary993 | 14 luglio 2019

One of the great features of Tesla cars is the over the air updates, but the strange thing is in some cases people seem to think they should have features just given to them when they didn't buy them...or they want to only buy additional features that are not offered on the car they purchased. I guess it is a new world we all must get accustom too.

jb1120 | 14 luglio 2019

I'm a P3D+ owner who paid $80K for his car (including FSD) . . . the same car is now $10K less for the same features. I'm not upset in any way about the price I paid; in fact, I am arguing for those who have not paid for the technology.

It's the nature of the evolution of Tesla and its pricing. I suspect more capable cars will be produced for a lower price moving forward, too. What seems reasonable to me is for Tesla to enable all of those cars who have features that can make them SAFER. Just do it. Maybe that happens in a year or two . . .

vmulla | 14 luglio 2019

@jb1120,
:) So you're not a shareholder?

jb1120 | 14 luglio 2019

I am a shareholder, too . . . current stock value is more than what I paid for the car. Started investing in Tesla in 2013. I'm in it for the long haul.

vmulla | 14 luglio 2019

@jb1120,
You're a rare breed then :)
A owner shareholder who paid for an option and is ok with offering the option to all for free, at the cost of revenue loss to Tesla.

Pepperidge | 14 luglio 2019

I think simple AP should be free since Elon said it is standard now for safety, and safety features should be standard.
I paid for FSD but have no problem doing so. I am not cheap.

howard | 14 luglio 2019

Advanced safety features have typically always been part of a premium package. Then after the features (ABS) have been out for awhile they become standard as the price of the car goes up. I am not a proponent of free anything.

jb1120 | 14 luglio 2019

Here’s the thing: it is now impossible to purchase a Tesla without Autopilot. This feature is so important to Tesla that they have taken the choice away from the consumer. One can assume and hope that Tesla is doing so in the name of safety. If that is the case, is it not morally correct for them to turn that safety feature on for all? To think that there may be people who die in a collision that may have been avoided if Autopilot was engaged gives one pause. Even more daunting, it is likely that Tesla can identify cases where they know the car would have performed differently than the human driver in a fatal collision.

howard | 14 luglio 2019

The same can be said Automatic Collision Braking which is a paid for upgrade on most cars. Sorry but there is a tremendous amount of technology out there that can save lives within the abilities of all manufacturers but it all comes at a cost whether now as an upgrade cost or later as a base cost increase. Perhaps everyone is entitled to a new free state of the art vehicle. Who pays I wonder.

Tyguy | 14 luglio 2019

Tesla's continuous development of the firmware and adding features to already released vehicles appears to have created new expectations of entitlement. I can't imagine a buyer of any other manufacturer expecting the company to provide features given to newer models in their older car for no cost. New territory here. I do expect Tesla to fix problems, but not give stuff away for free.

EVRider | 14 luglio 2019

@jb1120: Tesla doesn’t have a moral obligation to give anything away for free, but as a public company, they do have a financial obligation to be profitable.

Lonestar10_1999 | 14 luglio 2019

EVRider +1

The federal government has a moral obligation to set and enforce minimum safety standards. Beyond that, new safety features should be developed with marketing and profitability in mind. It’s just capitalism plain and simple.

jb1120 | 14 luglio 2019

Fart Mode, Atari Games, and Sentry Mode are all features that I didn’t pay for. None of them (save Sentry Mode perhaps) will be potentially life saving. Stay tuned.

vmulla | 14 luglio 2019

@EVRider,
The language of moral responsibility is coming from EM.

However, anyone who paid for the feature is going to be asking for a refund. This is just not a viable idea.

howard | 14 luglio 2019

jb1120 | July 14, 2019
Fart Mode, Atari Games, and Sentry Mode are Tesla’s way marketing/media buzz efforts. Not really applicable.

terminator9 | 14 luglio 2019

These companies should give me an airplane for free. It is morally wrong that they want me to die in a car crash when air travel is so much safer!

jb1120 | 16 luglio 2019

As if on cue, Tesla has lowered the price of the Model 3. This is reinforcing my point that the cars are going to get better AND cost less as we move forward. I’m betting that Tesla will make Autopilot free for all at some point in the not too distant future.

crmedved | 16 luglio 2019

I'm not sure I buy that AP in itself is a massive increase to safety. All Teslas capable have the safety features that Tesla deemed important - AEB, lane keep assist, obstacle aware acceleration, etc.

I view AP more as a convenience feature. I assumed they included it on all cars because not enough people were purchasing it... so they made a cheaper package, raised the prices, and made the new package "standard". The price increase was less than what they charged for AP on new orders, but I assume they came out ahead.

I don't see AP ever becoming completely free. There may be a discount some day though. Also, Elon usually says that AP/FSD will get more expensive as time goes on.

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

I can't know for sure, but my intuition is that people who didn't buy AP with their car are unlikely to add it after purchase.

If that's true, being that AP is standard now on all models, giving it for free to prior owners would not be risking revenue. In fact, if people then upgrade to Full it would bring in more revenue.

vmulla | 16 luglio 2019

jb1120 | July 16, 2019
As if on cue, Tesla has lowered the price of the Model 3.

====

The cue is a drop in Federal tax incentives, nothing else. This is Tesla helping it's bottom line. Free AP for folks who didn't opt for it does not help the buttomline.

Why should they give it away? It's not right for folks who paid, for shareholders, for the longevity of the company, and would set a disastrous precedent. Folks wouldn't opt for anything, and expect it to be free later on.

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

vmulla - Doesn't that same exact disastrous precedent get set by giving it for free to new buyers and by huge price drops in general? Folks wouldn't buy the car today and expect it to be cheaper and include more option later on.

Certainly the precedent they have already set is not to buy the Model Y until its out for a year.

vmulla | 16 luglio 2019

@GoCaps,
I don't know : /

I'm just sharing my thought process and how I am advising my friends - at this point, the most of my friends already bought the 3 (one decided the x is right for her), I'm not inclined to recommend the 3 for anyone just to get the smaller tax benefit. I am encouraging deposits on the Y, that's because LR RWD-7 seat may not be available after a point.

Free anything doesn't sound right.

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

vmulla- I can only speak with certainty for myself. I would consider a Y for my wife's car but due to the precedent already set I will wait at least a year until after it comes out. I will not make the same mistake again. I am sure that precedent will effect others the same way.

jimglas | 16 luglio 2019

What "precedent"?

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

jimglas- That waiting a bit to buy will get you a cheaper price with more included options.

jimglas | 16 luglio 2019

but you will not have the pleasure of owning the car during that time

vmulla | 16 luglio 2019

@GoCaps,
Likewise. I delayed the deposit on a Y in the hopes of timing it right - we shall see how it goes.

My thoughts are -

#1 I'm very happy with the LR RWD 3. I want that option on a Y, so I want to make sure I have it before it's possibly discontinued.
#2 I'm not ready to be the early production customer on the Y - one experience is good. Let's just say lessons learned.

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

jimglas-That is definitely true.

I guess the value of money is different to everyone. To me that 9 months of earlier pleasure is not worth the $11,000 extra.

Plus, the cars lifespan is unchanged so those months of earlier ownership get deferred not lost.

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

vmulla-Good luck to ya on the timing! I have learned the lesson too.

jimglas | 16 luglio 2019

I suspect most of the price decreases have been due to the tax credit being phased out
That is not going to happen with any tesla in the future

GoCaps | 16 luglio 2019

jimglas-True. Time will tell.

Although today's drop, which is smaller in scale, doesn't coincide with a change to the tax credit. Today's drop is probably more about increasing sales.

vmulla | 16 luglio 2019

jimglas | July 16, 2019
I suspect most of the price decreases have been due to the tax credit being phased out
That is not going to happen with any tesla in the future

---

Exactly! That's why there is no incentive to go grab the 3 asap - if someone is budget conscious, I'd suggest they just wait it out for a more family-friendly car, the Y is preferred amongst my friends anyway. The difference between the 2 vehicles is expected to be around 5K as per EM, so why rush?

Tesla for its part can focus on deliveries overseas anyway - everyone wins.