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Thoughts on free Supercharging/FSD removed on CPO's

Thoughts on free Supercharging/FSD removed on CPO's

Hi,
Long time lurker, first time poster. Just received my 2014 P85+ 20 days ago and I am glad I did, knowing Tesla have now pulled free Supercharging off all the CPO's. Any thoughts if this will affect current owners or if this will ever be transferrable like before when I sell it to a private buyer?
Thanks!

tes-s | 24 luglio 2019

Only affects CPOs sold after the change date.

Boonedocks | 24 luglio 2019

I am all for it being removed after a trade in.

It (as of now) won’t have any affect on a private sale so if someone is happy with their trade in allowance then if won’t affect them after their trade and it will help Tesla’s long term SuperCharger goals then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

redacted | 24 luglio 2019

It's a win for Tesla because it can pay less for your trade-in and also not have to pay out for free supercharging.

It would be interesting to see Tesla remove FSD from cars that were traded in. This would be an equivalent action.

EVRider | 24 luglio 2019

Removing FSD is not equivalent because it’s not an ongoing expense to Tesla. That doesn’t mean they won’t remove it, but I hope not.

Daisy the Road ... | 24 luglio 2019

How does it reduce the value of a trade in? That value is effectively set by the used market for an MS with FSC. They can't force you to sell your car to them.
Tesla's choice to strip the feature after buying it from you is a cost that they are eating. It is a gamble that they have presumably calculated to be in their favor.

Boonedocks | 24 luglio 2019

@EVRider - it appears as Tesla just may be doing it though

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/no-more-fsd-for-any-cpo-teslas.1...

jerry | 24 luglio 2019

I guess I'm not up to speed on my TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) . What is a CPO? FSC? If I sell my 2016 S to a private buyer, does the buyer get free supercharging for life?

Boonedocks | 24 luglio 2019

@Tessnme Y.E.S.

PrescottRichard | 24 luglio 2019

CPO- doesn’t exist anymore, there is just pre-owned now. FSC- or FUSC is free supercharging.

At least that’s my understanding.

sarbnoor.gill | 24 luglio 2019

@Tessnme CPO in Tesla terms: a pre-owned bought from Tesla with 2/4yr warranty after a 70 point mechanical inspection is completed, no one has any idea on what it entails

Dramsey | 24 luglio 2019

Hm. Under the "My Account" tab here, it says:

"You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

I guess they mean "only if you sell it privately"? Removing free supercharging from tradeins that had it seems petty. I seem to recall Elon saying some time ago that supercharging-- back when it was free for everyone-- only cost Tesla about $80 per car per year.

RedJ | 24 luglio 2019

I’m not sure why it would be considered petty. The bottom line is that the cost (in either electricity/maintenance or additional SC congestion) is greater to Tesla than they believe buyers are willing to pay, so they aren’t selling it anymore.

rxlawdude | 24 luglio 2019

"If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

Seems pretty clear that removal of FUSC when Tesla takes it as trade is a clear violation of the plain language above, but it does not address "the owner after the next..." It is this loophole that allows Tesla (the "next owner") to say it does not apply to the subsequent purchaser. On the other hand, Tesla EXPLICITLY STATED that FUSC "follows the car," implying through all subsequent owners.

However, this new Tesla interpretation implies that even a vehicle sold privately twice will lose FUSC.

Left hand, right hand. Communication is Tesla's Achilles heel.

EVRider | 24 luglio 2019

The Motor Vehicle Purchase Agreement for my 2016 Model S (which I no longer own) says nothing about free supercharging, even for me. It just says "Supercharging Enabled".

johncrab | 24 luglio 2019

This does impact value just because it causes uncertainty in the aftermarket. When I bought my car, the 60 was offered without SC but it could be added $2500 to that model. It was not optional with the 85 and was just included, so it raised the price of the car. Okay, fine. No problem. Since that is now part of the car's original price, removing it is like pulling off a $2k set of wheels and putting on a stamped steel set from a Chevy. It remains to be seen if they do this on all transfers of ownership or just those that go through Tesla. Based on the dismal numbers reported today, I can see why they are trying to squeeze everybody from employees to customers. They killed the annual maintenance and quietly kept our money, so I suspect they will be coming after our supercharging eventually. I have plenty of documentation including videos of Elon talking about how this would remain free and I'll sue if they try to take this away without compensation for reduced vehicle value. Cut me a cheque for what I paid for the "free" and I'll buy my energy like everyone else but do not mess with me on this one.

Dramsey | 24 luglio 2019

It occurs to me that it would be a good idea to make a screen grab of my Tesla account page where it notes the car has transferable ULC. Honestly at this point it wouldn't surprise me if the "free supercharging will transfer to the next owner" text mysteriously vanished at some time in the future.

RedJ | 24 luglio 2019

I’m really not sure why everyone’s getting anxious about Tesla removing free supercharging from the CPO vehicles they own. If they want to add or remove AP, FSC, FSD from these vehicles it seems like it’s their prerogative. I can see why it might be disappointing for someone in the maker for a CPO who would like free supercharging, but that’s the free market.

For the rest of us this might even be good news since it theoretically could reduce congestion at superchargers.

zeeaaq | 24 luglio 2019

I recall Tesla sending something out a while back promising current S and X owners free supercharging when buying a new S or X. Is that still around?

EVRider | 25 luglio 2019

@zeeaaq: No, those promotions are usually short lived and designed to boost sales before the end of a quarter.

Tesla’s removal of FUSC from CPO cars should make cars with FUSC more valuable to private buyers, so it’s probably a good thing for current owners of those cars.

nothotpocket | 25 luglio 2019

@Dramsey Tesla might not be removing FUSC just to save (or earn) money, but also to lighten up the demand on existing Superchargers, especially in high use areas like mine. If I had to pay it would cost more for to SC than doing it at home, so I'd probably skip most of my SC visits.

SteveZzz | 25 luglio 2019

@Dramsey - Take a look at your account page. If yours is like mine, it now clearly says that free supercharging does NOT transfer to the next owner. It must have recently changed from saying that it does to it does not.

Bighorn | 25 luglio 2019

This is what my account page says currently:

You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms.

trixiew | 25 luglio 2019

Owners should pay for supercharging. Unpopular statement I’m sure especially from someone who currently gets it for free, but I want to continue to see expansion of supercharging stations and the financial health of the company. Non Tesla owners still have range anxiety so the more chargers available the better for sales. Make the rates low, significantly lower than gas, but still recoop some revenue.

DonS | 26 luglio 2019

Tesla can do whatever it wants with CPO cars, add or remove features or paint them garish colors. The used car market determines what the CPO cars are actually worth. I suspect that a few CPO buyers saw free supercharging as a way to run a livery or taxi business very cheaply.

Dramsey | 26 luglio 2019

As of two seconds ago, my account still says:

"Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

I agree Tesla can do what they want with CPO cars-- except, as we know, Tesla no longer has "CPO cars", they just have used cars, which they perform a secret inspection on before casually hosing them down and offering them for sale. But still. Once they own it, they can replace the wheels with cheap steel rims, disable EAP, etc.

If I sell my car privately, and Tesla wouldn't honor the transferable ULC, well, that would be a problem.

@trixiew,

"Owners should pay for supercharging."

Well, except those of us who were _specifically promised in writing_ that we'd have free, unlimited supercharging for the life of the car.

@SteveZzz,

If your account page used to say unlimited supercharging would transfer to the next owner, and now it doesn't, I'd think you have a legal case. But that's just me.

EVRider | 27 luglio 2019

@Dramsey: There’s no evidence that Tesla is removing, or intends to remove, FUSC from cars sold privately. I agree that it would be a problem if they did that.

Bighorn | 27 luglio 2019

Paranoid ideation. Extrapolating an illegal act from a perfectly legal, and logical one, is illogical.

Bill_75D | 27 luglio 2019

Bighorn channelling Mr. Spock

Bighorn | 27 luglio 2019

@Bill
Maybe I should do that 23 and me;)

rxlawdude | 27 luglio 2019

@EVRider, what about the second owner selling to a third owner? Does FUSC transfer, given the express language?

EVRider | 28 luglio 2019

@rxlawdude: I think it’s highly unlikely Tesla would remove features from a vehicle sold privately, even if they legally could. The number of vehicles eligible for FUSC is an ever shrinking percentage of Tesla’s fleet, so the savings to Tesla don’t seem significant enough to risk legal challenges and ill will.

Bill_75D | 28 luglio 2019

We need someone who is a second owner and has FUSC to post their supercharging terms from their MyTesla account. Does it still say this?

"Supercharging
You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will transfer to the next owner."

stevenmaifert | 28 luglio 2019

With so many of the car's features driven by software, it kinda begs the question... When the original owner of the car purchases the vehicle, is he/she also purchasing the software that runs it or just a license to use it during the period of ownership. If the latter is the case, Tesla could probably get away with removing whatever they wanted once the original owner relinquishes ownership either through a private sale or a trade in to Tesla.

AZGLFR | 28 luglio 2019

I am second owner of 2015 S 85D . My account says that I have free supercharging and if I sell the supercharging will transfer to the new owner . Actually worded exactly as you posted Bill_ ....

rxlawdude | 28 luglio 2019

@AZGLFR, when did you purchase your 85D?

AZGLFR | 28 luglio 2019

Bought it July 2018 , it had 55k+ miles on it . Previous owner was in California.

BarryQ | 28 luglio 2019

In May I traded my 2013 S60 to a dealer in Texas. The dealer just sold the car, and the new owner contacted me (a few days ago) with some questions. He told me he DOES have the free unlimited supercharging. (So technically he is the 3rd owner).

AERODYNE | 28 luglio 2019

Rxlaw....same here as AZ. Second owner, MS85D bought from Tesla Sept 2018

rxlawdude | 28 luglio 2019

So it's odd that Tesla would act unlike any other transferee, in that they can remove a feature that was paid for in full at original purchase.

Kind of bush league, but in Tesla's right to do so. I guess one can must trade a better warranty (Tesla pre-owned) for free Supercharging (if purchased privately).

rxlawdude | 28 luglio 2019

er, "can must" -> "must"

cmichael | 28 luglio 2019

I seem to have different language for this making FUSC non-transferable under Manage.

"You have free, unlimited Supercharging for your current Tesla vehicle. If you choose to sell your current Tesla, free Supercharging will not transfer to the next owner. Read our Supercharging terms."

Cheers

steveg1701 | 28 luglio 2019

@cmichael you probably used a referral code when you bought the car, there was a time where that would get you nontransferable FUSC

cmichael | 28 luglio 2019

@steveg1701. Nope. I traded a 85S in for the current 100D via Tesla Oakbrook back in 2017 when 100Ds became orderable (P100Ds were available a few months earlier). No referral code to my knowledge as I didn't supply one unless Tesla sales entered something in I am unaware of.

Tesla had removed general availability of FUSC. I was in the first "FUSC is back" promotion.

Cheers

Cheers

Cheers

rxlawdude | 28 luglio 2019

@cmichael, that's right- after real, transferable FUSC went bye-bye in early 2017, subsequent offerings for "FUSC-" (non-transferable, but unlimited for the current owner) happened a few times. The terms you list are exactly that type.

jackyen | 8 dicembre 2019

so....if i buy a pre-own Tesla from dealer or Tesla there's no free supercharge? but if I buy from a private seller it will have supercharge?

Silver2K | 8 dicembre 2019

Free supercharging on pre-owned tesla s and x purchased from tesla has been restored

Silver2K | 8 dicembre 2019

An example

https://www.tesla.com/used/5YJSA1E4XGF124098

Some may not have free supercharging, for example a 60 or 60D

rxlawdude | 9 dicembre 2019

@Silver, every pre-owned that I checked does NOT say Unlimited Supercharging. Including 75Ds and 85Ds from all years.

Dunno about your unicorn. :-)

egonzo21 | 9 dicembre 2019

Looks like maybe only 90's and above have free supercharging.