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Blindspot monitoring and Lane Departure avoidance errors

Blindspot monitoring and Lane Departure avoidance errors

First, the car is clean and spotless. No dirt on cameras. I have a June '19 build LR AWD w/FSD HW3. Firmware is 2019.32.12.2

I randomly get these error while driving, even on clear sunny days. They appear in the lower left of the UI screen over car and suggest calling service if the issue persists... Thoughts?

Joshan | 27 ottobre 2019

You car tells you to call service? Am I reading that right? If so, I would call and get service ASAP.

Joshan | 27 ottobre 2019

er sorry, just so I dont get torched. By Call, I mean schedule service using the app or other methods.

FISHEV | 27 ottobre 2019

"randomly get these error while driving, even on clear sunny days."@jebinc

I was getting them regularly and called Tesla who looked and told me to get service. Before I got in for service, they forced an update 2019.32.12.2 and it reduced it a lot. While maybe 25% were like yours, probably 75% were AM when, I'm guessing, the camera front panel camera has morning condensation on it. You're saying it's clean but it might pay to try wiping it off and seeing if that fixes it.

It would be good if Tesla was more expansive on the warning. "Camera cannot see, wipe camera". I'm guessing the front panel camera is the key for blind spot and lane departure. When Tesla was testing the problems with Lane Departure, they asked for that cam's pix.

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

Fish - No condensation or dirt. The only think I could think of is the angle of the sun relative to the camera position and vehicle direction. Given that it happens randomly, it’s tough to pinpoint. Didn’t have any errors prior to 12.2. Not sure if it’s firmware or hardware that sucks the big one. This kind of stuff should happen on a clean car, during daylight hours, in clear sunny weather. Just sayin’

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

^^^ P.S. Perhaps the camera’s are now “blinded by the light...” due to some firmware tweak.

Joshan | 27 ottobre 2019

If you are putting in bug reports (the 2 buton push type) when it happens. When you get your service appt, they should be able to match up the incidents better in the logs as they "should" have time stamps at least and at best, the matching bug report.

Just thinking it could help you get to the bottom of the issue faster.

Lonestar10_1999 | 27 ottobre 2019

@Fishev - I thought you were fed up with your M3 and was trading it in for a Kona. Is that no longer true or was that never true?

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

@joshan - yep, tried that. Pushed the right scroll wheel, said “error report” bla bla bla and the response was “try again”. Tried numerous times, then said to myself, “F it” and moved on.

FISHEV | 27 ottobre 2019

"Perhaps the camera’s are now “blinded by the light."@jebinc

Might not be that far off....BUT...on car systems...even driving right into the sun where the cameras are facing forward, the sun glare did not have that affect though the manual did warn of it.

Maybe the bright lights on the road lines creates some kind of visual issue for the cameras?

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

Fish - I need to call BS on that. We have three Subaru’s with Eyesight and never had a sun issue tie up the cameras/computer. Now a snow squall or downpour has triggered a temporary out of service type message. As I said, clean car, daytime, sunny weather this should never happen unless a piece of hardware failed. If it’s software, shame on Tesla. I suspect a hardware problem.

Joshan | 27 ottobre 2019

@jebinc I hear ya, it gets annoying when sutff dont work right. Just an FYI it is "Bug Report" and than a short summary.

So for instance when it happens "Bug Report, car just gave error about lane avoidance" and it will save the logs for that time to your Tesla account (or so I have I been told...)

FISHEV | 27 ottobre 2019

"We have three Subaru’s with Eyesight and never had a sun issue tie up the cameras/computer."@jebinc

I think I said the same thing "even driving right into the sun where the cameras are facing forward, the sun glare did not have that affect". Biggest disappointment to me on the Model 3 was no "Eyesight" functionality. I mean Tesla has some of it but Eyesight just did it all so seamlessly and reliably. They Eyesight cams are just two facing forward. I'm guessing they did the lane keeping. For blindspot it was the sensors in the bumper?

Eyesight was pretty smart on BSI, it registered the cars before they got into the blindspot and warn based on how fast the car was going vs. just waiting until it was in the blind spot. Good predictive system.

PteRoy | 27 ottobre 2019

I am having the exact same issue as you. Seems like every time it rains I get the error and several times on normal sunny days. Guess I should call for service as well.

WW_spb | 27 ottobre 2019

Oh here we go again Fishie

FISHEV | 27 ottobre 2019

"Seems like every time it rains I get the error and several times on normal sunny days."@PteRoy

I had it checked twice and each time it was "Within Normal Parameters" so when the go most of it to go away via the software, I didn't pursue it. Just one of those things. "It will go off in a minute" is often heard comment.

Sooo...unless it seems really excessive...you might want to save yourself a service stop.

andy | 27 ottobre 2019

Low sun causes problems for me - I've been looking forward to the clocks changing as my normal route takes me direct into low sun at this time of year until the clocks change.

FISHEV | 27 ottobre 2019

"Low sun causes problems for me"@andy

Bright low direct sun right...not low light conditions?

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

@Joshan - Ah, I’m done this before with AP issues just fine. Perhaps I gave the wrong command this time in frustration.

All; Re Eyesight on the Subaru’s Fish correct for the limited functionality provided up thru 2019 models - very predictable and reliable, with no surprises. Now, the 2020 Eyesight is completely new and is AP like. My 2020 Outback XT Limited’s Eyesight is damn good and has AP like functionality. Even accelerates properly from a stop. I don’t want to turn this thread into an “Eyesight vs AP” thread, however, as there are enough of those around already. I did schedule service via the app and the earliest is 11/6. In the meantime, I will try to log the errors, when they occur, via the “bug report” feature.

lbowroom | 27 ottobre 2019

Jeb- get your new Subaru yet?

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

@lbowroom - About a month ago... Already put it to work as a truck as I spent the last month helping my son renovate a house he just bought. I updated the TMC thread I created a while back with a 2020 Eyesight impression post.

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019
andy | 27 ottobre 2019

Bright sun low in the sky. Just needs to be direct onto a camera and gjve strong contrast to the rest of the light.

It’s pretty normal conditions for us at this time of the year. As well as causing autopilot shutdowns the car also tracks shapes in the road that are not white lines. Shiny tar or lines of tar where there have been temporary cats eyes are examples. The light and reflections/glare confuse the computer.

jebinc | 27 ottobre 2019

@andy - So why don’t other cars with cameras, lane departure avoidance and blind spot monitoring have this problem? Never experienced this (errors during the middle of a clear sunny day) once with any of the Eyesight equipped Subies. Not even our 2016 rendition.

andy | 27 ottobre 2019

I don’t know. The camera positioning may be a factor. The Leaf has a 360 parking camera, which the Model 3 lacks, but the side cameras on the Leaf are under the wing mirrors and look down. The forward camera was in a different position too. I did have problems on the Leaf with the radar and it was replaced under warranty. The Leaf also seemed to be more susceptible to salt and spray reducing visibility for the cameras and front radar.

I had autopilot disengaged very suddenly on the motorway with low sun. I’ve also had the car start to pull across lanes to follow a trail of tarmac studs where roadworks had been in place before with temporary cats eyes. In similar conditions I’m now more aware of the limitations of the car/cameras and stick to using cruise when travelling East in strong morning sun.

I’ve had the side cameras complain a couple of times. String low sun to the side and damp in the pillar. Have taken to carrying a microfibre cloth to clean water off from around cameras when setting off. Once at motorway speed the water seems to naturally blow off.

FISHEV | 28 ottobre 2019

"Have taken to carrying a microfibre cloth to clean water off from around cameras when setting off. Once at motorway speed the water seems to naturally blow off."@andy

I'm guessing that is it. The way camera's are setup they need a little help with the AM condensation. But probably good for @jebinc to get it looked at. He''ll likely the get the same "Withing Normal" reports I got but at least you know what you are working with then.

vmulla | 28 ottobre 2019

@jebinc,
How often are you getting these messages? Is it happening enough that you feel you should schedule a service visit? There are multiple factors
---

As far as Subaru Eyesight comparison. Subaru's system is a 2 camera system that was rigorously tested, but it cannot be updated. The Tesla system is using 8 cameras, and is constantly evolving - so it's not really an apples to apples comparison in my opinion. Since Jan 2018 I've experienced the Model 3 evolve from using 2 cameras to 5 cameras (I do not think it is using all cameras yet). With each cameras added we have to expect a slight reset in software capabilities, that's just realities of evolutionary software development (theory says otherwise, but we live in the real world).
To that point, camera based blindspot monitoring software on the 3 is only a few months old - the cameras were recently activated. So expect huge strides in this area.

jebinc | 28 ottobre 2019

@vmulla - When I created the thread, I was wondering if what you say was the cause (if so, many others would have reported the same behavior in similar conditions) or if there was a hardware/computer issue unique to my car. So far, here and on TMC, few have indicated they have had a similar experience in similar conditions. Given this, I don't believe your assertion is true in this case.

vmulla | 28 ottobre 2019

@jebinc,
I see those errors occasionally, and am not concerned enough to post about them - read on to find out why.

The car is processing millions of images, and some of the images fail to get a 100% certain outcome. It is desirable to expect the car to alert the driver when the car is uncertain about something.

Here's something that just occurred to me, because I'm at the moment paying a toll violation ticket (funny coincidence) - my car's image on the notice has a bright reflection because of reflections from my glass. Now consider this, even on a clear perfect day your car's cameras might be catching reflections from passing cars, reflective signs, things flying by, anything at all. It is actually good that the car is deferring the decision to a human. ( Link to the image I'm giving as an example: https://photos.app.goo.gl/ya3YMQsmyb66pDkg8 )

All the car said is - something seems off this time, and pay attention to it if it continues to happen. So, that was the reason for my first question, do you experience it enough that you think there's a real problem?

jebinc | 28 ottobre 2019

"So, that was the reason for my first question, do you experience it enough that you think there's a real problem?" -vmulla

Never a problem until recently - in fact, I don't recall ever seeing an error like this unless at night on a dark country road. Now, this past week it happened about 25% of the time I was out in the car. Something changed. Could be the latest firmware (I'm guessing not as there aren't others reporting the same issue), or a hardware failure somewhere.

vmulla | 28 ottobre 2019

@jebinc,
Record the event the next time it happens and study what the car is seeing. Better yet, share those video clips here - there are enough of us who love to understand what the car is doing.
You can consider scheduling an appointment at the service center if our collective knowledge cannot find out the cause for that error, AND if it is happening often enough to give you concern.

Thanks for an interesting conversation :)

jebinc | 28 ottobre 2019

@vmulla - I will describe the last to occurrences.

Yesterday: Was driving on a up and down hilly country road heading east around noon (Seattle area) - no other traffic in either direction. The sun was to my right (South) and lower due to being in Seattle this time of year. Evergreen trees and fields line this one lane each way largely straight country road, so you do get some interleaving due to the trees. I later made a right turn (more into the sun) as I headed down the road to my house, and figured the error would clear up after taking the right hand turn heading south - it did not.

A few days ago: Was heading downhill and West on a busy "two lanes each way" road around 2pm. It was a partly cloudy day and quite pleasant. The sun was to my south/south west (other side of the car from the first example). There was plenty of other traffic in both directions and the road was not quite "straight".

jebinc | 28 ottobre 2019

^^^ two*

Joshan | 28 ottobre 2019

Does seem like a hardware failure of some sort, as I have never seen this error even one time. If it was more environmental I would have to think I would see it at least once.

jebinc | 28 ottobre 2019

^^^ P.S. There are lane divider and edge painted markings for the cameras to see on both roads....

robert4 | 28 ottobre 2019

My wife complained that she was no longer getting warnings or push-back from the model 3 when she drifts unintentionally out of the lane. I made absolutely sure that lane departure warning is turned on. I took it out for a drive on the interstate and drifted across the lane markers and did not get a vibration on the steering wheel. Of course, the turn signal was not one. Then I tried it with Assist and nothing happens. This all used to work. The cameras are all clean. Did a software update affect this? We using Version 2019.32.12.2.

jebinc | 30 ottobre 2019

Update: Another sunny and cooler day here in Seattle. While parked at a store, I noticed condensation on the inside of the "B" pillar camera glass (not the camera glass, the "B" pillar window glass that the camera peeks out of). Later, while driving home, I saw the errors again. Question: Does the condensation indicate a bad seal and therefore a trip to the SC is needed, or is that just a design oversight and happens to all 3's in similar conditions?

hokiegir1 | 30 ottobre 2019

I had similar errors nearly every morning with "if it persists, contact service", so after about the 4th day in a row, I called them. They looked at the logs and said "yes, we need someone to check it." A few days later, someone came out, and while the car was cleaned regularly, there was apparently some schmutz on the camera, and between that and sun angle/morning dew, it was causing the problem. They cleaned whatever it was off, and I haven't had the error since. I wasn't there for the visit (hubby was), so I'm not sure *where* the dirt was residing, but it was a quick fix for that.

jebinc | 30 ottobre 2019

-@hokiegir1

Thanks for the report. I created a service appointment via the app and requested mobile service - as with traffic, a trip would cost me a frustrating hour each way. The app only let me schedule a SC appointment, but I'm hopeful someone will read the notes attached to my request and call me prior to appointment day on the 6th. Is there another way to contact the mobile service directly? Process seems "Hokie" to me ;-)

jimglas | 30 ottobre 2019

How did you get schmutz on your camera?

hokiegir1 | 30 ottobre 2019

@jimglas - no idea. We wash the car regularly, but they said it was still dirty. We don't have a garage, so it could just be hard water stains from rain for all I know.

@jebinc - I had initially called roadside assistance, and then when they told me to schedule the appointment, I did it through the app. I think I put in the notes that "mobile service preferred", but I don't remember.

jimglas | 30 ottobre 2019

@hokiegirl: That makes sense, I was wondering how it got inside the pillar onto the camera

jebinc | 30 ottobre 2019

-@Hokiegirl

Ah, so there's hope for me that I will get a call or mobile service. Thanks!

BTW, I think "Hard" water comes from ground water interacting with minerals, such as calcium. You could get "acid rain" or other chemicals in rain drops that could etch your glass or paint. I had a Mustang once whose paint was ravished by rain borne pollutants (back in the '80s in Northern NJ).

hokiegir1 | 30 ottobre 2019

@jebinc - Oh, true. Point was, it could be from anything, since we don't have it covered most of the time. I do get covered parking at work -- but even that isn't the nicest (it's downtown Atlanta -- and used to be at one of the main hospitals in the area), but not at home -- so lots of exposure to elements. And honestly, we're pretty rough on it (as evidenced by the fact that it's getting repaired from hitting one of the garage door rails at work....*sigh*), so there's no telling. I think he cleaned it with a qtip and alcohol or lens cleaner (it was the repeater that was dirty), but again -- second hand info.

jebinc | 2 novembre 2019

Interesting reply from the SC from another TMC member. Ironically, same SC I have an appointment with. Ah, yes, and on a forum (TMC) whose UI allows for photos and videos to be directly embedded...
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4160606/

And others here that were posted in the last 48 hours:
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/got-message-blindspot-detection-la...

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/blindspot-monitoring-and-lane-depa...

FISHEV | 2 novembre 2019

Idea that safeties go offline due to condensation INSIDE the camera compartment is bad design. I thought they meant outside condensation which is also bad design but at least you can wipe it off every morning. I did today to test it and no "Safeties Offline" message.

Joshan | 2 novembre 2019

Shocking to think you could have to prep your car for a drive in adverse weather.... outrageous I say!

I prefer in the dead of winter to just hop into my car with an inch of ice on the windshield and just drive and than come to the internet and cry my safety systems were affected by weather changes that I took no action to preheat or correct.

That's how I roll /s

FISHEV | 2 novembre 2019

"Shocking to think you could have to prep your car for a drive in adverse weather."@Joshan

Considering didn't have to with cars with better AP systems, yes...but more disappointing that Tesla tech is 2nd rate on AP by any metric.

Wanderer | 2 novembre 2019

Folks it happened to me for the first time yesterday morning - lane avoidance warning followed by EAP/TACC unavailability for several miles. Put in park several times and it eventually came back. Outside temps dropped below 40F for the first time and I was getting low tire pressure warning (nothing was below 39 though). Got to work, rebooted (buttons & brake). Fast fwd 10hrs later, got into car and touch screen wont work.. hard to turn heat & seat warmers on via app.. next traffic light soft reboot and touch screen was back... have a service appt a week out in case still need it. this car is not for the faint-hearted! LOL

FISHEV | 2 novembre 2019

"this car is not for the faint-hearted! LOL"@Wanderer

Its like a box of chocolates.

andy | 2 novembre 2019

@fishev I’m pretty sure the manual makes it clear that road conditions and weather are factors and the many features are in beta.

The Model 3 car outperforms my Leaf in most aspects of automation (with some notable omissions on the Model 3, but also areas that the Model 3 does better) and, over the last 18 months (Leaf and Model 3) my expectations have been set by my experience in both cars.

I’m probably pushing my car to the limit in terms of daily mileage, mix of road conditions, weather and the very challenging conditions we have for drivers on UK roads. The Model 3 is very impressive, but there are also limits to what current technology can do without other cars and the roads communicating with each other.

Overall the Model 3 probably the best car out there at the moment as a direct replacement for any ICE with added value, but there are limits as to what can be achieved even with huge amounts spent on further software development.

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