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Got LEAFed

Got LEAFed

At work there are 2 charging statios for approximately 20 EV owner.
When I get there in the morning there are always the 2 same Volts Charging every morning they get their around 7:30 AM.
The rule is maximum 4h charge, so at noon people run to get their car plugged and there are 2 other Volts that usually get there around 12:15 to plug in till 4PM.
Since I couldn’t charge home and it was -5 I went to plug in at 7PM before starting a case and there was this Bolt charging to 15 minutes on the stall indicator and a Leaf on the 2nd stall plugged in but not charging on the screen indicator with 1 inch of snow on the car meant it was there for minimum 2-3 hours. So that Leaf owner gets to work starting his shift at 4PM, plugs in it’s Leaf, doesn’t start the charge by scanning his EV Flo card, stays there without charging while highjacking à stall. Since I was around 20% and he wasn’t charging from what I could see on the stall screen I unplugged his Leaf, parked on the closest spot and plugged my Model 3. Wrote down on the snow on his car, sorry, was at 20%.

Finally, when I left 3 hours later, having charged 21kWh, his Leaf was still there, so I plugged it back and activated the charge with my EV Flo card so he could charge. I was surprised to receive the usual email from the Flo network that it charged from 9 PM to 11:30 PM for 12 kWh.

It means he gets in, park and plug, doesn’t activate charging till he comes in at the end of his shift scan his card to activate charging and get his battery warm and charged right before leaving. A 2h charge for an 8h LEAFing of à charging spot.

First time this practice comes to my attention.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 14 febbraio 2020

“ Figuring out charging routine is on me.”

There goes the neighborhood.

ken.lunde | 14 febbraio 2020

Where I work we have 1,000 ChargePoint L2 charging spots with no time limit. I charge once or twice a week, and do so only when I can charge a full 8 to 9 hours.

yudansha™ | 14 febbraio 2020

1,000?! Wow! Do you work for ChargePoint?

dgstan | 14 febbraio 2020

Ken and I must work at the same place. Are they all solar powered too?

kevin_rf | 14 febbraio 2020

The San Diego office of the company I work for has two (I think chargepoints) L2's in the parking area. Ev'ng like that is quite common in the complex. The number of snipes I hear about it. Mostly from a cmax owner aimed at a few repeat offenders ... I'm in New England and we don't have chargers in our complex, so I get to avoid the verbal daggers.

Still in your case, smart man, leaving with a warm battery in your wintery conditions. You got leafed!

Earl and Nagin ... | 15 febbraio 2020

Although I don't condone what the OP experienced from the Leaf, I can, possibly explain it from my experience with my Leaf.
As my Leaf battery had deteriorated with age and heat after about 3 years, I could no-longer make it home with an 80% charge. It was 36 miles with a 1500 ft elevation gain to get home. This created a problem, as I needed a 100% charge to make it home but, if I left my Leaf at 100% all day after charging in the morning, the battery would deteriorate even faster. I couldn't count on getting a charger if I waited to plug in until the afternoon. At that time, we only had about 16 charging stations and EVs were becoming popular.
The problem was eventually solved with a new battery, a new house further down the mountain, and the installation of a CHAdeMO charger to enable quick charging if I couldn't find a charger temporarily. Later, when we had to move to a new building 5 miles further distance and 300 feet lower in elevation, the Model 3 became available for my freeway fodder; solving it once and for all.

vmulla | 15 febbraio 2020

EV owners can be inconsiderate too :(

Maxxer | 15 febbraio 2020

@Earl
Can’t imagine being in your situation and the temperature drops and snow starts falling

DiminishedSeventh | 15 febbraio 2020

Unfortunately I see that here once in a while. Usually at places where the EV chargers are right by the front door and people want to use it as a parking space. They park and plug in but don’t charge so if people don’t look closely they’ll think the vehicle is charging. At one of the stores I think it’s one of the employees because every time I go there it’s the same Bolt and it’s plugged in but never charging.

Maybe your Leaf thought nobody else would be there that late and so it wouldn’t be a big deal? Nice of you to pay for their charging after you plugged their car back in though.

Earl and Nagin ... | 15 febbraio 2020

@maxxer,
While I appreciated Nissan's attempt with the Leaf and it has been the most trouble-free, reliable vehicle I've ever had (The Model 3 comes very close), its poor battery design and small size was clearly disappointing.
Overall, in mild temperatures and flat terrain, it was a great commuter car for ~30 mile commutes (the average). Beyond that, it took some work.

yudansha™ | 15 febbraio 2020

This has nothing to do with car model. I see Tesla drivers do the same thing here. They park in EV parking spots and do not charge.

Maxxer | 15 febbraio 2020

But parking, plugging, not charging takes premeditation to a whole new level.

I have never done that and would never do so, ffs, there is 2 stalls for over 20 users, move it, think of others

Earl and Nagin ... | 15 febbraio 2020

@Maxxer,
The real issue is there aren't enough chargers. Anything else is just a bandaid since next year, there will be 40 users, 80, the next, 160 the next and so forth. 2 chargers might as well be none.
Getting hot and bothered about these secondary and tertiary issues is futile.
- The Leaf folks will claim that Teslas should not be using the few chargers that there are at all since Leafs have to have workplace charging in order to get home while Teslas can charge at home for the round trip.
- The Volt owners will claim that Leafs and Teslas shouldn't get to use them since Leaf owners are just too cheap to be able to afford a car with a gas engine to enable longer range driving.
- People who live close to work will claim that they should get priority because they use less energy, hence are 'greener'.
- People who live a long way from work claim that they should get priority because they 'need' cheaper energy and can't make the round-trip without being able to charge at work.
- People at the high end of the salary scale claim they shouldn't have to move their cars because they are too important and busy to take the time to move it during the day.
- People at the low end of the salary scale claim they should have priority because they can't afford Teslas or long rang EVs, hence they need to charge every day at work.
- People with solar on their roofs claim they should get priority because they're generating electricity during the day and want to use it to be environmentally sustainable.
- People who don't have easy charging at their home or apartment claim they should get priority because they 'can't' charge at home
- People who can charge at home don't care about people that can't charge at their home or apartment because they have to pay more for their mortgage or rent.
- Plug-in Prius owners claim that they should get to use the chargers because they are Prius drivers - the first affordable 'green cars'.
In summary:
Choosing who gets priority to a scarce resource is tough. The only thing everyone can agree upon is that they should get the priority. The ability of mankind to justify and rationalize why it should be them is probably the place where mankind's creativity is at its greatest! Unless handled extremely wisely, this only causes wars.
With something a cheap and easy as workplace charging, scarce only because of lack of vision, the only smart answer is to add more chargers.

jallred | 15 febbraio 2020

Right, it will be fun when a first arrival can’t use a charger because they live too close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation_(computer_science)

FISHEV | 15 febbraio 2020

“Choosing who gets priority to a scarce resource is tough.”

Not really. As long as it is equitable and transparent. Easiest is first come first served and then a time limit and a list of arrival times.

Our plan is a charging schedule, we all work odd days so knowing when the 50 mile person is working etc. We get to work about the same time which also helps. People would put in request to charge and preferred time and then they get sorted and assigned.

From 2021 to 2030, I’d be surprised if we have any problems with someone wanting a charge but not being able to get it. Don’t think we’ll see more EV’s than chargers. Probably going to eliminate customer EV charging. No one would expect it and it’s not a factor in their using our services.

By charging retail for it, we make money and we discourage the home chargers who don’t need it.

billstanton | 15 febbraio 2020

In a nutshell...the transition will be tough. I only drank the Kool Aid because I could put in solar, powerwall and wall charger and start my day with 300 miles if I needed. Not sure I would have made the leap otherwise. I respect the struggles but it would simply be too much stress for me. I know the limits of my patience.

I sincerely look forward to the day ever darn space has a plug in. I may be old, but I can still dream.

Earl and Nagin ... | 15 febbraio 2020

@Fish,
if you implement it as wisely as you respond to this forum you'll have fist-fights in the parking lot in no time and you'll turn most people off of EVs altogether -- which appears to be your overall goal anyway.

FISHEV | 15 febbraio 2020

"if you implement it as wisely as you respond to this forum you'll have fist-fights in the parking lot"

Doubtful as no irrational Tesla fanbois in the shop. Interesting we do have two former Tesla owners, one a Signature S early adopter (he has a deposit on the Mach-E). All the EV/PHEV owners have home charging and live nearby so likely won't bother. Main reason is to attract employees in larger radius.

jallred | 15 febbraio 2020

Don’t think we’ll see more EV’s than chargers -fish

People would put in request to charge and preferred time and then they get sorted and assigned. -fish

Why not just assign a charger to each ev. Since you have more chargers than Evs?

Tesla2018 | 15 febbraio 2020

Ev chargers should have a flashing red light if a car is plugged in and not charging. A city hall near my workplace has 2 chargers and one employee uses it as a personal parking space and a Tesla was parked overnight due to the few on the car. However a green light goes out if it's finished charging and starts flashing really fast if you hit the Start charging button on the charger, so that you know the car is already charged.

Only solution I can see is to have chargers be like parking meters. You use a credit or access card and it charges for a specfic amount of time with a limit of x number of hours and then can't be used again at the same charger that day. Like how an ATM limits the amount if cash you can withdraw every day.

I can see companies taking away charging stations as it becomes more of an expense and employees fight for use. Do they also give free gas to employees with ICE cars? Also hybrids can run on gas so their should be no need for them to have to charge at work for free. Are employees really that cheap that they would rather suck up free electricity instead of buying gas or plugging on at home? It makes no sense to be dependant on a workplace to charge. If you get transferred or laid off and the new place doesn't have charging then you are stuck.
I could have ridden my bicycle to work at one time but I would be stupid to depend entirely on it since things change.

Atoms | 15 febbraio 2020

Long ways to go to build out more charging for everyone. Need more infrastructure! Some people are just not considerate, but more charging will address the problem.

kevin_rf | 15 febbraio 2020

Just like handicap parking, people will always abuse ev parking spots. All you can do is shake your head.

At the old mill building I work in we have two "vendor" parking spots next to the building. Yeah, the head of manufacturing uses one as his personal spot and heaven forbid an employee uses the other to unload equipment or run in and out real quick. There is always that one Subaru driver out there. Even the owner of the company uses the regular complex parking. Me I'm happily parked on the other side of the complex near the daycare far far away from the mess. Funny story, he use to wear a Tesla jacket around the office that he received from an employee's brother who works at a service center. He stopped wearing it as soon as I bought my Model 3. :-)

FISHEV | 15 febbraio 2020

“Do they also give free gas to employees with ICE cars?”

Our plan is employees all pay retail rate and company makes money on every charge with charges for not moving when times up. All stuff you can program in on Chargepoint commercial systems.

Tesla2018 | 15 febbraio 2020

I think more people abuse " service animals" than handicapped spaces. Was in Home Depot and it was more like Petco with all the dogs people had riding in their shopping carts. I wouldn't want want poop and germ covered paws on the seats that are meant for kids to sit in.

yudansha™ | 16 febbraio 2020

It will get worse with pets until it gets better. I stopped using shopping carts in almost every store. I bring my own bag or order stuff online.
Same will happen with chargers. It might cause too much trouble for businesses to maintain, to impose rules, etc.

kevin_rf | 16 febbraio 2020

And you somehow magically think the toddler seat in a shopping cart is not the "pea zone" for the little tykes. It's why when shopping I don't put anything in that section of the cart. Pets are much cleaner.

Rikki-Tikki-Tavi | 16 febbraio 2020

kevin_rf, wow

jallred | 16 febbraio 2020

Our plan is employees all pay retail rate and company makes money on every charge with charges for not moving when times up -fish

Nothing quite like devising ways to make money from employees. So funny when people complain that companies are too focused on profits instead of altruistic missions but then set up schemes within their own companies to extract profits from their employees for unrelated services.

jallred | 16 febbraio 2020

A substantial part of the EV revolution is that we lose dependency on fossil fuels. Instead we get to use a “fuel” that is readily available. For most people in daily use we have the benefit that our energy supply is available at the place that our car is parked the majority of the time. This includes where we work.

Employees and employers have this relationship where the employer invests in the overall well being of the employees so that the employees can empower the employer with their work. For most people, their employers provide the employees with food, clothes, homes, vacations, gas. They do this with the IOU notes we call money.

Employers provide certain things to employees during the work day out of tradition. They aren’t essential for your work. Water to drink, heating and air conditioning, bathrooms. Or even electricity to charge our phones.

Sometimes companies provide the services they actually create to their employees at cost or lower. Maybe you work for a wireless company and get your phone for free or at cost.

So why should a company use a third party to provide electricity that the company already has access to?

It makes the net cost to the business go up.

Earl and Nagin ... | 16 febbraio 2020

@jallred,
Good point about the 3rd party service provider.
For our new building, we just had a couple of our facilities guys spend 2 days digging a trench, laying conduit, mounting pedestals, and pouring concrete. Our electrician checked the work throughout. Voila! we had 8 new charging stations for a little more than 2 days of labor and a bit of materials. Of course, we're at the point where we need to do this again, given the increase in EVs (mostly Model 3's). Compared to heating, cooling, lighting, computers, etc for the big building, the company doesn't even notice the electrical load of EV charging.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

The type of car someone drives says nothing about that persons personality. Unless its a Taycan.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 16 febbraio 2020

Earl and Nagin suggested, "...the only smart answer is to add more chargers."

That is correct. Thank you for your wise, thorough, and well reasoned post. Superb.

billstanton: Keep on dreamin, Bruddah!

T2018: Americans tend to be cheap and are afraid of exercise that goes beyond shoveling food in their faces. Where I live, most women over the age of 24 weigh in excess of 240 pounds. They believe any Woman that weighs under 180 is 'skinny', sick, or 'wasting away'. Apparently by law or something. So, any excuse to avoid walking over 20 feet from their car to the electric scooters stored at the front of a grocery store will be taken advantage of immediately. A couple of decades ago, I was surprised that most Deliveries of wheelchairs I made were to the elderly who had not done enough exercise in their to continue walking, or people who had literally eaten themselves into wheelchairs and couldn't walk due to obesity. Very, very few were sent/prescribed to people who had the complete inability to walk, they just found it painful or inconvenient to be bothered with walking.

kevin_rf: Some people are truly [ICEHOLES]. And proud to display it.

jallred: Yes. The age of the 'Company Town' is not far removed from the principles of Sharecropping. And largely for the same reason. Profit at the expense of employees. Some companies reject the notion of making employees' lives easier, more convenient. They don't want to 'give away' anything to anyone. They don't want those employees to 'get one over them' and stuff. It never occurs to them that happy workers would do a better job. These are companies that don't mind spending money, wasting it even, as long as they don't give it to YOU. When you recognize the company you work for has that attitude, it's beyond time to quit.

PSA: FEESHICE IS STILL EVIL.

M-A-B-MCMLXXX | 16 febbraio 2020

“ Where I live, most women over the age of 24 weigh in excess of 240 pounds.”

Good lord man.

Sarah R | 16 febbraio 2020

This isn't that difficult. Parking at a charging station (not charging) is the same as parking at a gas pump. Nobody is going to put up with it. It's illegal. You'll get towed and ticketed. As it should be.

It's not a parking space. It's a fueling station.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 16 febbraio 2020

M-A-B-MCMLXXX: Yeah. They's some BIGGUNS, Bruh. Whew!

Naturally, every 240 pound chick thinks she's 'FINE' because she has a 300 pound Friend. Who in turn just knows she's 'FINE' because she has a Friend who weighs in excess of 360. And that girl is positively 'FINE' in her mind, because she has a Friend who is over 420, and so on.

I guess none of them have heard of BMI. Because generally they are under 5'-4" and as thick and wide as they are tall. Diabetes, Hypertension, and Kidney disease reign here. None have seen the inside of a gymnasium as an active participant since 9th Grade PE Class.

Honestly, it doesn't seem the Female populace of the Great White North are any smaller. Thirty-some years ago, I worked doing space planning for a weight loss firm in Century City with numerous locations in snowbound regions across the U.S. and into Canada. Their 'clinics' served a bunch of well off widebodies desperately attempting to keep the attention of their Husbands (when they weren't eating themselves into a coma from Thanksgiving through New Year's Day).

Did I mention...? I really miss California. ~*SNIFF*~

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

Im sure all of those obese people think drinking diet soda is healthy.

texxx | 16 febbraio 2020

Funny story on company chargers. Where I work we had a choice of installing four Tesla chargers we would get for free from Tesla - plus get reimbursed for a portion of the installation charges - or pay a local company to install Chargepoint chargers.. The company opted to pay for Chargepoint so they didn't have to find a way to charge employees for electricity use. And the cost to install the Chargepont chargers? Well over $25K. Imagine how many years of "free" electricity that would have paid for if we had gone with the Tesla chargers. I made the argument, they said it wasn't fair to give employees with EVs free charging, especially since there were only two EV owners.

Getting people to think differently is hard.

FISHEV | 16 febbraio 2020

"Well over $25K. Imagine how many years of "free" electricity that would have paid for if we had gone with the Tesla chargers."

But the Tesla chargers can only charge Tesla's so that doesn't work going forward. Just one of the reasons Tesla needs to provide the CCS adapter for all Tesla's so Tesla owners can charge at all the new fast charging stations going up.

Plus Chargepoint's can be customized for all kinds of scenarios, have a billing system in place and can be easily configured via online controls. Our six chargers, twelve plug system was quoted at $70k. This included the work for the 600A transformer and new service just for the chargers.

Have to work the numbers to see what we want to charge to get a 10 year pay back on the chargers.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

Tesla destination chargers can charge any vehicle that has a type 2 AC socket.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

The argument with Teslas needing the CCS adapter is equivalent for all EVs. Either we need a standard plug type, or EV manufacturers should have a global adapter kit to buy.

Tesla2018 | 16 febbraio 2020

Just curious. A friend who works for FedEx said a customer had a supercharger set up at his home. He delivers in high end areas and the person isn't famous but started a well known music downloading website so money isn't an object. Is this even possible for home use? He said it looked like the supercharging station do I don't think he was confusing it with a wall charger that may have been mounted outside.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

No way someone got a supercharger installed at their home.

FISHEV | 16 febbraio 2020

"The argument with Teslas needing the CCS adapter is equivalent for all EVs"

All the other EV's in US and EU have the CCS as do all the non-Tesla chargers. We are long past that point and Tesla needs to provide the CCS adapter to US Model 3 owners (and S and X owners also).

The CCS plug handles Level 1,2,3 and works for everyone.

ReD eXiLe ms us | 16 febbraio 2020

andy.connor.e: I'm sure the line, "I'll have four fried chickens and a Diet Coke." is prevalent here and elsewhere. ;-)

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

This thread is not about the damn adapters that Teslas get. This thread is about what charger was installed and why. Chargepoint stations were installed because the business did not want to have the responsibility of charging money for peoples usage. God....... dam

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

Actually, the thread is about a charging space being used by an EV not charging. The follow up discussion was about what type of chargers were installed, which was not driven by adapters.

yudansha™ | 16 febbraio 2020

Most companies I worked for provide coffee, tea, plates, plastic utensils, etc. to employees for free. I don’t use any of these but I would use $5-10 worth of charging weekly. Probably about the same cost as all other free perks. It’s not worth trying to recoup 25k from 10 employees.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

Keurig K-cups cost about 30 cents per cup in bulk. So on average at my company, everyone drinks $1 of coffee per day, plus all that waste, and not including wooden stir sticks, sugar, creamer and such. Could say its $1.25 per day per person. 80 employees, you're looking at $100/wk in sunk costs. A business is not required to provide free charging, but at this point in time, today, having chargers is an incentive. I have started thinking about when i get my panel upgraded putting a 30A dryer plug in my garage to offer for my rental tenants. Why not.

andy.connor.e | 16 febbraio 2020

I totally thrashed that math. Its $100/day, $500/wk, or $2000/mo in coffee.

FISHEV | 16 febbraio 2020

" I don’t use any of these but I would use $5-10 worth of charging weekly."

Our goal is providing charging for employees in the big city 60-120 miles round trip away. Someone could use a Ioniq EV at 150 miles range even in Winter at 50%/70 miles of range. It enables employees to buy EV's even lower cost, lower range EV's and PHEV's.

if we can provide the charging that replaces 20 ICEs with 20 EV's, that's pretty good corporate responsibility.

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