I'm betting quite a few future would be BEV owners are making the question in subject. I'm one of them. As I don't have currently any car I didn't see any reason to get a garage in my apartment. There are few garages in my apartment building, but not enough for everybody. Also there are few parking spaces with possibility to connect block heaters, which would nicely work as slow charger spots, but again not enough. Common city situation. More cars than there are apartment parking places. People park in streets.

So what would a person with a BEV do if there is no charger in home to plug it in? In grand scale, this is a major problem. In Finland that is even bigger problem because of cold winters and over -20 centigrade temperatures, which is too much for Roadster battery without plugging it in.

Any thoughts how to solve that problem?

Roblab | 2010年9月1日

I think I would move. The rent won't be that much worse for an apartment with a place for the car. I think I would rather live in a smaller place, or further out of the city and have a place for my Model S. You will have to do what you think is best.

Timo | 2010年9月1日

I don't have a car because I don't need a car. That's the beauty of my current apartment. I'm at walking-distance from most things I need (including my workplace) and rest of the places I can get using metro, tram or bus (or train). So this is not so much my problem than it is to many other city dwellers.

Think this problem a bit more grander scale. What to do to those city dwellers that do need a car, want to move to BEV-era but do not have a charging point at home?

DanAderhold | 2010年9月2日

Can I make a suggestion, or is this the "nothings possible" section?

Timo | 2010年9月3日

@Dan, nobody is stopping you (moderator could, but she probably doesn't care what you say as long as you stay civil).

I think that maybe a big apartment could get a few fast chargers with a lock and key that residents get. Something like apartment self-service laundry with pre-selected turns.

With big enough battery you wouldn't need to charge every day, and it would be enough to get a turn to charge your car every now and then and before you start a longer journey.

ChristianG | 2010年9月3日

Answer is easy, they can't charge it, they don't buy it. When EVs get more popular things will change and there will be for excample public parking garages with chargers and all sort of things. Right now it's kinda the end of the pioneer time. EVs getting popular but the infrastructure is nowhere near optimal.

AlfredG | 2010年9月3日

This is why France is planning to make some plugs compulsory for residential parkings. I currently just rent a place in a parking and had a plug with a little counter installed. For starters just an ordinary household plug (230V/10A). So far I never needed more power there, as this is where the car is - logically enough - parked for the longest intervals. Should the rare case arise that I arrive home nearly empty and would have to leave again early next day for another long trip I could have temporarily access to a 32A plug. So it depends on your uses. Some commuters might find access to a plug at work.
- Alfred

DanAderhold | 2010年9月3日


I'm just joking with you, relax.

I have worked in the Automotive and Truck Industries for 20 years, Part Suppliers, Technical Centers, Assembly Plants, Plant and Product launches. Initially hired by GM to help remedy problems in one critical plant, and thereafter launches. I was an Engineer and Project Manager for many plant and product launches throughout US and Canada, and lived in Michigan for a number of years. My specialty is analyzing infrastructure, operations, automation, and productivity then determining sources of problems, and resolving issues. Later engineering contractor and manager for special programs, worked with all Big-3 in MI.

Many people coming to these forums have average understanding of EV technology, and can be confused quickly. I wish there was a forum where engineering topics could be discussed in some detail. It's good to debate various ideals and engineering applications, but really don't wish to confuse people.

Give some time to think about this, it's a good question.

jomo25 | 2010年9月20日

It is a fair question. I love the idea of the Model S. And I was probably going to put down the deposit to have the option to buy on when they are available. However, I do live in an urban setting, high-rise condo, with underground parking. I don't think there is an outlet in the area that I could use, and even if there was, it would be billed as part of the overall building, not on my bill. Thus, I don't think I could use it for charging.

As mentioned above, the infrastructure and even general society hasn't really figured out the logistics for EVs. I'm sure as EVs become more mainstream, these types of issues will be figured out. Hopefully by 2012, my condo will have a solution. It's something I will raise at an upcoming HOA meeting.

EVTom_Norway | 2010年9月23日

In Norway everyone can apply for government funds to set up a charging station. The charging station must be available for all EVs, like street parking in the photos at

I suggest that you join the Electric Vehicle Assosiation of Finland and ask them to push for the same EV incentives in your country.

olson.b | 2010年9月27日

An apartment dweller with an unassigned parking space may be able to use a fast charger with a long and large guage cable, with permision from the apartment manager. However charging at work may be a more viable option. Since electric use is quantified by the vehicle's system, apropriate compensation could be made to the employer at or around payday. If not parking at an assignrd spot at work, a suitabe spot might be arranged with a nearby business, especially if said buisness is hopeing to justify a charge point for their own use.

aishadl | 2010年9月28日

I understand how you feel Timo. I live in a brand new condo building in downtown San Jose, Calif. We have underground parking, but no place to charge an EV. I do like the idea of charging at work though. If not a Model S just won't be in my future! :(

Earl and Nagin ... | 2010年9月28日

Just because you don't own the apartment doesn't mean you can't get a charger installed. I recommend that if you're serious about EVs you look for creative solutions and you be prepared to spend a little money (investment on our planet's future) of your own.
I'd recommend that you first look for a parking space near an electrical breaker box. This should make charging dock installation rather cheap. They you could offer to your landlord to have your electrician do the work and you'd pay for it. You could suggest adding a bit to your monthly rent (assume .3 Wh/mile for your expected daily driving plus a bit to handle unexpected use) to handle the additional electricity cost or else you could put a separate meter on and pay directly for the electricity used. This is now legal in CA but I don't know about other places yet. You could probably bring the charging dock with you when you leave the apartment by simply disconecting it.
If you use street parking, you might want to work with your city and/or electrical utility to see if you can get them to install an EV Charger and restricted parking. You could plan to use the space at night and others could use it during the day. Again, close proximity to an electrical box will facilitate things. Lean toward convenience for them more than yourself, ie not the primo-spot right in front of the door.
These are just a few suggestions but I encourage creativity and working with the land owners.

Timo | 2010年9月28日

I'm talking more of the near future where this kind of place just doesn't have enough chargers fro everyone. I personally probably wouldn't have any problem getting a parking place with a charger, we have some garages here and in addition to them "heater parking spaces" (for block heaters). Any of those can be used for charging a car. Future problem is that this is not enough for everyone, and we want to get everybody in EV-era.

One solution is that there is one or two fast (L3) chargers in the apartment for every resident to use, with locks to prevent unauthorized use. With ranges of 300+ miles in near future you won't need to charge every day, so couple of those would be enough to serve many residents. For a apartment of 100 or so residents cost to install few of those is not much/resident.

Kevin Sharpe | 2010年10月6日

We setup a charity in the UK to supply and install 32A sockets for free at locations prepared to provide public access. 32A is a good compromise between ultra low cost, rate of charge, and minimum impact on the local electricity supply.

We have negotiated a number of deals with electricity companies to supply the first years power for free to address any concern the site owners may have. That said, to operators such as hotels and restaurants the free charge point is a no-brainer.

What we envisage is "charge points everywhere" and our website will give more details when it goes live on the 6th November;

dsm363 | 2010年10月6日

Timo: Are you able to move into an apartment in the same building with a garage? Since the Model S isn't coming out until 2012, I imagine you could have the apartment people notify you sometime in 2011 when one of those apartment comes up for rent and then you could move in before they place it on the market if that's allowed.

Timo | 2010年10月6日

dsm363, that's my plan. Get a garage before buying Model S. OTOH I'm no hurry, because I still need that 450-500 mile range for practicality. Either that or that charging point somewhere between my home and my sister/parents home. Neither exist yet.

dsm363 | 2010年10月17日

A 500 mile battery pack is probably 3-4 years off at least. I think working on a charging station where you need it is probably a better option. Either that or keeping a gas car around (if it's practical) as your backup/roadtrip car.

Douglas3 | 2010年10月17日

Why bother with the expense of keeping a gasser on hand, when you can much more cheaply rent one on the rare occasions that you need it?

Becca | 2010年12月28日

Pardon me if this was posted elsewhere, but what if you have a driveway next to the house but no garage? Can a high power connector be mounted on the side of the house, or is there a danger to having this outdoors?

SteveU | 2010年12月28日

Becca, I don't know for certain but my HPC certainly does not look like it is designed to be outside. From the looks of it I am certain water could get into it when it rains and that can't be good around a 90A 240V circuit. You really should check with Tesla, but it looks to me like some sort of NEMA enclosure would have to be provided (and would need some sort of way for the cable to come out while still keeping the HPC dry.

Timo | 2010年12月28日

Danger is the voltage, not the amps, and 240V is standard household voltage here in Europe. It doesn't jump. No danger whatsoever if you just have sockets and wires rated for outdoors. Pretty much just having some lid to cover the connectors so that dirt can't get in is enough for protection for that low voltage.

In here we have 400V three-phase connectors outdoors too, with just minor changes (basically connectors facing downward in about 45 degree angle, covered by lid). I'm sure there are a standard sockets designed just for that in US standards too.

SteveU | 2010年12月29日

Timo, just looking at it the HPC isn't designed to be used outside. There is a lot more inside it than sockets and wires. I doubt it would do well with water dripping through it and as packaged rain would drip through it (never mind ice building up inside it). Yes, if you used a 14-50 plug which is a US standard for 50A all you would be talking about then is wires and sockets. Becca asked about the HPC.

Timo | 2010年12月29日

I'm sorry, I deciphered that HPC as general "high power connector", I had no idea it means something specific.

Becca | 2010年12月29日

Thanks. I definitely plan to visit Tesla store and ask--there must be some kind of workaround. And ice would be a problem in NY.

Timo | 2010年12月30日

BTW, what does HPC stand for? Home p-something charger? Controller? Charger? Connector? I can get so many combinations from those three letters that I have no idea what might be the right one.

qwk | 2010年12月30日

High power charger

Douglas3 | 2010年12月30日

I believe Clipper Creek, who makes the HPC for Tesla, makes an outdoor version of their charger; perhaps they could supply one configured for the Roadster.

qwk | 2010年12月30日
Tesla 1233 | 2010年12月30日

I recently ordered a Roadster and purchased a ClipperCreek Model TS-70 charger (HPC).

The installation manual contains the following statment under the heading "Specifications":


Tesla 1233 | 2010年12月30日

Sorry, I hit enter by accident.

I recently ordered a Roadster and purchased a ClipperCreek Model TS-70 charger (HPC).

The installation manual contains the following statment under the heading "Specifications":

NEMA Rating NEMA 4 - Outdoor use, watertight.

searcher | 2010年12月31日

I once owned a wonderful Britanny dog named "Clipper" so the Clipper thing should be good,ha.

SteveU | 2010年12月31日

@dennis: I guess the newer HPC (Timo, it does stand for High Power Connector, but it has electronics in it to generate the signals the Roadster expects) are better than the original. The one I have is definitely not watertight.

Douglas3 | 2010年12月31日

Right you are... I just checked the manual myself. Just to be clear, that TS-70 you mentioned is the standard HPC supplied by Tesla. So they are all rated for outdoor use.

Steve | 2011年1月2日

I think SteveU has the same HPC that I have. These were the original ones made by Tesla, not by Clipper Creek. I agree with SteveU that ours are not watertight. However, the Clipper Creek HPC is a descendent of the AVCON conductive chargers used by earlier generations of EVs, and that earlier charging station was definitely weatherproof. Many of them were installed outdoors.

By the way, HPC stands for High Power Connector. See where they now call it the High Power Wall Connector. I think they choose the word Connector rather than Charger because the significant charging circuitry is in the car. The HPC is mostly just a contactor (relay) to be able to apply or remove power safely.

kateanderson | 2013年2月15日

We all know that one of the problem for the Electric Vehicle is the charging station. There are few stations that can be use by the owners. The United States Department of Energy wants to multiply
the amount of place of work plug-in electric vehicle charging stations tenfold in the next five years. To that reason, it has released the Workplace Charging Challenge, which has already attracted the involvement of 13 major companies and eight stakeholder businesses.

Benz | 2013年2月15日

So there is movement in that direction. Slowly but surely EV's will become more and more accepted, and people will more and more prefer an EV instead of an ICE vehicle.