Forums

Model S police cars

Model S police cars

Apparently the german buyers want an "unleashed" model s to really fly on the Autobaun. That got me thinking, Tesla can do the same for police highway cruisers and with that torque and increased top speed would make them a no brainer for all our police forces. Tesla should suit up , or strip down a model S to be a utility cruiser for the police and loan/lease a few of them to all the big city police fleets and i think that they will change the industry themselves from within! Same goes for Taxis. How about a model X with two sets of seats facing each other in the back. how cool 6, a 6 passenger taxi! Prices could go down for taxi rates, or the drivers could actually make a living!!

gdubcobra1 | 2014年3月24日

No tesla police cars, my taxes are high enough.

mrbarnes | 2014年3月24日

I don't think that's a bad idea at all! I think that any way to make Tesla more visible is a plus. I drove down to Washington DC over the weekend and spent the night in Bethesda, MD... counted 6 Model S's and saw 2 Roadsters!

It makes me happy any time I see them on the road.

Brian H | 2014年3月24日

Trying to make the MS a hi-speed race and chase car is not on, till a robust 2-speed transmission is developed. Stripped gears and burned clutches are not easy repairs.

Timo | 2014年3月24日

Not sure you need 2-speed transmission, just tweak that reduction gear to allow a bit more speed. You lose a bit acceleration, but you don't really need 0-60 in less than four seconds in chase car. In most cases cars you need to chase are driven by people that don't really know how to drive, and for that reason chases tend to end rather quickly.

Maybe double the battery? 4WD as in Model X? Then there is more than enough power available to get high speeds without gears.

You could build one, but it would need to be custom-build for small customer base, so price would probably go too high.

johnwladd | 2014年3月24日

I think the model S would make a fine police car (handling, safety, size, environmental impact) Plenty of battery power to power all the fancy gadgets, and plenty of room. I don't think police should be driving much over 115mph, though I know they do. Definitely a good in-city vehicle. The fuel savings might pay for the cost.

Brian H | 2014年3月25日

Just the money saved idling in front of donut shops would pay for all the donuts.

holidayday | 2014年3月25日

Once Tesla is more commonplace, This will work. (With Fourth Gen 125 batteries)

Police can get their own superchargers or battery swap machines. (next to the doughnut shop)
Maintenance costs are much lower.
Reliability is much higher.
You can put more gear in the frunk.

They may need to provide the Performance Plus versions to handle the speeds they sometimes do and handle high speed maneuvers.

Also works for Taxi, Limousines (extended version that we all want to see), and local Delivery (Model X).

Car t man | 2014年3月25日

Police chasers actually shouldn't go much beyond 130mph, because they only induce accidents, by actually engaging in pursuits at those high speeds. Actually, even at much lower speeds. In many nations, police isn't supposed to chase renegades unwilling to stop at clear attempts and signs of police to pull over. Simply because if they don't, they are desperate or dumb enough, to run anyway, causing loss of life and property, as almost a sure end result. So best to let them go and try and intercept them at the other end, pursue them by other means and track them down.

The US system still has some of the outdated "we will catch you, no matter what" ideology in it, but it causes more casualties and property damage. In many European nations, they will let an idiot "run away" and simply wait for them at their house, etc. The purpose of police isn't to prove they can do whatever they can, because they're the law, but that they can get things done the smart way, no matter what crooks think they've come up with..

So if someone won't stop when chased at 130mph, they shouldn't even be directly pursued. Teslas are more than adequate to do what makes sense, and do so in a way which pays itself out after some 180.000 miles of driven miles per car. At most...

JimmyB | 2014年3月25日

I've thought about this. They would make an outstanding police car. The cars could charge while parked between shifts. Cops do a lot of stop and go driving so the efficiency would really pay off. Nobody could outrun them. The touch screen could have software to control the lights, sirens, communicate with dispatch, run licence plates, etc.

The model x might be even better. Falcon wings conveniently open for getting perps in and out.

Iowa92x | 2014年3月25日

An $80k tax payer funded police cruiser isn't what the people want.

carlgo | 2014年3月25日

City PDs don't put that many miles on their cars each day, rarely get into over 100 mph chases. The acceleration and handling are more important than top speed.

The fuel savings and resale value might actually make them cost-competitive, but aluminum cars are costly to repair.

We might see city police using a future smaller SUV Tesla. That would make more sense.

holidayday | 2014年3月26日

Iowa92x: "An $80k tax payer funded police cruiser isn't what the people want."

You do know the cost is more than just the one-time payment right? There are maintenance costs, gas, personnel, etc. Plus, they don't just buy a regular car. Police cars are upgraded with different engines, brakes, shocks, tires, etc.

All police cars are tax payer funded. It's a matter of return on investment over the life of the car.

dglauz | 2014年3月27日

"An $80k tax payer funded police cruiser isn't what the people want."
But that is what they usually cost.

When a cop gets out of the car it is left idling. Fuel savings would be enormous.

Car t man | 2014年3月27日

It is in applications like these, where eve an S, not to mention upcoming smaller Teslas and other EVs, can save its price difference worth in
very reasonable time, even in simple direct investment costs, not to
mention hidden costs of pollution, etc. Actually that isn't hidden
anymore. Just not commonly known. Costs of pollution, noise, etc..
have been well calculated and are enormous.

gdubcobra1 | 2014年3月27日

Other EVs, yes. Tesla, no. Small Tesla vehciles whenever they come will still be to expensive.

Iowa92x | 2014年3月27日

A Tesla S in police form would be $120k+, not a smart choice. Police vehicles also get banged up, aluminum is expensive to repair. Think big picture.

church70 | 2014年3月27日

Wow this just won't go away trying to explain to people the cars actually much cheaper

There is no gas so you think you're spending a lot the taxpayer but you're actually saving just on the gasoline would be cheaper than any other place car

I am coming up on one year soon April 4 I will probably end the year with 47,000 km that's a lot of money I have saved on gasoline especially when the car is a seven seater then you can compare your savings to a seven seater car which is what I have my old car was a Mazda CX 9 I have saved a ton and gas this year enough this offset my $800 car payment per month I put $36,000 down so did the car cost me 100K or 36K I have not spent a penny on any kind of maintenance in the 47,000 kilometers I also live in Canada so gasoline is like 30-35% higher here so this helps

This car makes a lot of sense for a lot of countries outside of United States because the gas prices are so much higher anyway one day we will see IT all electric everything transportation

church70 | 2014年3月27日

Sorry police car NOT place car?

Timo | 2014年3月28日

I'd say not yet. Car is a bit too expensive and after rework for police use even more so. Gas savings do not come even close to cover extra expenses. After couple of years thing might be a lot better.

Iowa92x | 2014年3月28日

What Timo said. A Model S without police equipment is $50,000 more than a base Doge Charger. Not gonna save $50k in gas, and aluminum repair costs require skill and big bucks. A $40k Model E makes a compelling case for a police chaser, however.

Brian H | 2014年3月28日

I have no idea how much the Doges paid for their chargers. Horses were expensive then. And there were few dry roads in Venice, then or now.

Iowa92x | 2014年3月28日

Dogecoin Brian. Such wow.

http://dogecoin.com

jkn | 2014年3月29日

Brian H,

2 gear (or more) transmission would be complete waste for Tesla. Currently cooling system is not powerful enough for racing. If that is fixed, battery will run out too quickly.

Currently acceleration is limited by grip from 0 to about 45 mph. Above that it is limited by power available from battery. Motor is rather small. They could have made it more powerful with small cost. Increasing power density of the battery would reduce energy density. They did not want to do that.

If torque of the motor is limiting factor, then power would fall from 310 kW before top speed is reached. Is there video like this but up to 130 mph?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpivacjZu3c

Car t man,

It is foolish to tell criminals: If you drive faster than 130 mph, we will not chase. You are free to go where you want.

Brian H | 2014年3月29日

It is a truism in hockey that a pass moves faster than a skater. Similarly, radio waves move faster than cars.

carlgo | 2014年3月29日

The problem with police cars is that they would need their own in-house Supercharger station. It would be awful and totally embarrassing if there was a big emergency and half the Teslas were being trickle-charged and unavailable. PD cars must be available 24/7.

A better choice would be for UPS/FedEx vans as they sit at night and could be charged up overnight, much like commuter cars are. They also have predictable ranges per day and should easily be able to do their daily rounds on one charge.

But, Tesla can't make enough cars to keep up with demand so there is no need for them to really explore every niche market right now.

jkn | 2014年3月30日

Brian H,

Yes, it is OK to say: We don't chase you, if we are certain we catch you anyway. It is not OK to say: If you drive dangerously, we will not chase. Criminals might swap cars, if police falls too much behind.

Perhaps police should get similar drones military uses in Afghanistan.

carlgo,

Supercharger does not need to be at police station. Doughnut shop might be good enough. Supercharging electronics is not very expensive. Costs come from place and connection to electric grid.

Police must wait for gen 3.

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/using-ms-police-car

Remnant | 2014年3月31日

Police need AWD, stronger suspensions, and higher ground clearance, so MX would make more sense than MS. If many PD's were to order a lot of MXs, Tesla could give them quantity discounts. In fact, Tesla could advertise this to PDs nationwide.

An interesting version of MX would be one with 4 motors on four semi-axles, without any mechanical differentials, since those functions can be handled electronically. The weight saved this way could go into a bigger battery and result in a much longer range, perhaps around 450 miles or so.

Timo | 2014年3月31日

You don't save any weight with four motors instead of two.

Remnant | 2014年4月1日

The idea is that the 4 motors are smaller/lighter than the current 2, while the eliminated differentials are bulky/heavy.

Timo | 2014年4月1日

I would bet that added weight from those motors is greater than those differentials. Definitely difference is not anywhere close to 150 mile worth. Eliminating entire drivetrain (barring battery) would not give that much weight difference.

Remnant | 2014年4月2日

The current electric motors weigh between 10 and 20 lbs each, the smaller ones only about 10 lbs each. Rumor has it that 2X20=4X10.

Differentials, I guess, weigh at least 50 lbs each, so one could add 100 lbs of Lithium cells (probably close to 1K of them) to the battery. That would increase the range, though it would probably add some $5-10K to the price of the vehicle.

Timo | 2014年4月2日

You have very low estimation of electric motor weight. AFAIK Model S motor weight is about 70 lbs + reduction gear + PEM.

Even if you are correct 100 lbs is only about 1000 battery cells. 1/7 of the 85kWh or 265miles. About 38 miles.

jordanrichard | 2014年4月2日

For all the praise that 4WD or AWD drive gets, police cruisers, at least here in CT are still rear wheel drive Crown Vics, Dodge Chargers. Alot of the added cost to make a Charger a police car is related to the computer euipment in the car, which adds weight. Well that could be replaced, or rather, ran through the 17" center screen. I am sure there is some decontenting Tesla could do to the MS to bring the cost down since the cars wouldn't be sold as consumer centric cars.

Remnant | 2014年4月3日

@ Timo | April 2, 2014

<< Even if you are correct 100 lbs is only about 1000 battery cells. 1/7 of the 85kWh or 265miles. About 38 miles. >>

Yours or mine, these numbers are only gross estimates.

The principle is only that weight reductions are likely to be beneficial to the range of the vehicle, so any unnecessary equipment should be removed or replaced with lighter gear.

Timo | 2014年4月3日

That one I agree. Lighter is better as long as you don't sacrifice other things doing that.

I hope this and future of that are solution to weight problems:

http://www.gizmag.com/graphene-sheets-strength/27761/
https://www.sciencemag.org/content/340/6136/1073.full

Miracle material, strong enough for space elevator and best conductor known to man. Makes carbon fiber look like lead in comparison.

This is exciting time to live. Now to solve human stupidity...

Car t man | 2014年4月3日

Yes but graphene's properties actually prevent it from being usable in many applications many of you here hope to see. At least for now.

Brian H | 2014年4月3日

Timo, graphene IS carbon. Sheets or fibres are just different manufactured arrangement.

SamO | 2014年4月3日

There are several unquantified costs/savings in Gas vs. EV:

1. Fuel 30,000 miles per year
(80miles/day) @ 20mpg @$4/gallon = $6000/year

2. General Maintenance
5 oil changes/year, filters, belts etc $500/year?

3. Body Repair
50% more expensive to repair MS?

4. Car accident insurance/death claims (injury to driving officer)
No serious injuries or deaths ever in a Tesla Model S.

If you don't get MS for police officers, then you want them to get injured or die in car accidents. Why do you hate America?

Timo | 2014年4月4日

Graphene is form of carbon just like diamond is. If you could do "carbon fiber" from graphene that would be great. I think you got my point though. Comparing new emerging tech to existing old one.

Remnant | 2014年4月4日

@ Timo | April 3, 2014

<< That one I agree. Lighter is better as long as you don't sacrifice other things doing that. >>

You find MS weight distribution info at:
http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-weight/

The differential weighs ~175 lbs. The assembly inverter-motor weighs ~350 lbs (most of which belongs with the inverter, of course).

There is technology to integrate the inverter with the motor (Mitsubishi), as well as technology to drive 2 in-wheel motors with a single inverter-differential (Nissan?). Big weight reduction with both.

Timo | 2014年4月4日

Hub motors are weak and increase unsprung weight. You don't want them in high-performance car.

Differential in that includes reduction gear. You would still need that in motor/wheel solution.

All of those are also liquid-cooled, so liquid weights are in the calc.

Remnant | 2014年4月4日

@ Timo | April 4, 2014

<< Hub motors are weak and increase unsprung weight. >>

Not necessarily.

Venturi Volage, which runs Michelin's Active Wheel system on all four wheels, posts a 0-60 time of about five seconds, with no unsprung weight.

Check, http://www.cnet.com/news/new-michelin-tech-puts-power-to-the-wheels/

Timo | 2014年4月5日

Well, it has unsprung weight from motors:

" features an unsprung weight of 77 pounds per wheel on the front axle and 53 pounds per wheel on the rear axle (thanks to the omission of rear wheel motors)"

That's increased unsprung weight. Active wheel without motor however is interesting.

Volage has low top speed, and I bet low acceleration at high speeds also. It has four motors and it still loses to Model S one in power.

Volage is also very very light, a technology showcase concept, not a production ready car.

(it has actually very slow acceleration for car that light, I'm betting it is hitting the decreased gain RPM way before 60mph).

petochok | 2014年4月5日

Basically, Tesla test rides will be outsourced to the local police department so Tesla can redirect its resources to better serve existing customers.
Handsfree test rides will come with free seatbelt service and a complimentary picture at the end of your test ride. Details of your test ride will be stored in a publicly accessible database, which the police will be able to bring up on the spot during future encounters to see if you've already had your test ride and decide whether you should get another one at that time. :)

Remnant | 2014年4月5日

@ Timo | April 5, 2014

<< Well, it has unsprung weight from motors: ... >>

Naturally, I meant "... with no unsprung weight [except the wheels themselves]."

You are right though, only part of the total Michelin's Active Wheel (MAW) weight of 95 lbs is unsprung, including the suspension.

So, 18 lbs (95-77) of the wheel assembly is sprung mass, along with the rest of the distributed weight of the vehicle and its inboard components.

Yes, Volage is no competition to Tesla, but the Michelin design shows that miniaturization (the inverter-motor assembly appears to weigh no more than 24 lbs per wheel) and independent wheel drive could reduce weight and increase payload for any EV, including Tesla.

Timo | 2014年4月6日

I think a compromise between the two would be best solution: those Michelin activewheel things in front and one (or two) powerful motor(s) in back. That way you get most out of the system, keep front wheel agility: turning wheels, no strain to axles and joints if there are no axles and keep very tight turning circle and also get more out of regen. Rear motor(s) gives you high top speed and main portion of acceleration.

Remnant | 2014年4月6日

Sounds like a winner. Let's pass it on to Elon et al.

church70 | 2014年4月6日

You just did

fmaz008 | 2014年5月23日

Lots of polices cars in Canada are still Crown Victoria, being change for something else that lot of officers find too small and with bad dead angles.

A crown vic can easilly cost 50$ CND per shift if it's used on patrol. Meaning $18K/year in fuel. So just by saving the cost of fuel, the Tesla premium cost would be paid back only by fuel saving in approx. 5 years. Now I do the math for larger police vehicle (ie: pickup), it's even worst.

High fuel cost is partly explained by vehicles that often have to be left on idle so the computers don't run out of battery. This would also be a great saving, provided that a Tesla could be used for a 12 hours without charge.

Now if maintenance is low, that will be a big saving too.

In canada, because of the winter, most detachment will already have standard 120V outlet to have the block heater plugged. Implementation cost could be very low provided that the fleet switch is gradual and that most vehicle are not necessarily used 24h a day.

I don't think the idea is that crazy if Tesla would provide a police car directly from factory, a little like Dodge seems to do with the Charger. That way it cut down on after market modification. ( If only the lights & Whallen controller, computers and marking has to be done after market, it's pretty good. -- no need to install an expensive after market "police pack")

Police cars are only use for approx. 150 000Km, after that they are replaced... so like 4-5 years, give or take.

If Tesla would have a great product to offer with a proven model that save money within the lifetime of the vehicle, I'm sure a couple police force would give it a try... ( Hey, even the Hummer once got his shot... but failed miserabely, haha )

Then it would be a great publicity for Testa... If their cars are reliable enought for emergency service, they are sure good enough for regular consumers. People think batteries would die after 3 years, or see cars in flame after a too hard pursuit. Would be a great marketting to prove people wrong !

Pages